Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

[trodas]

I got two Sapphire A9RX480 "Grouper" mobos, and they use in the RAM Vdimm powering two Nichicon HZ 2200uF 6.3V caps. The previous owner by careless manipulation broke off one of them. He replaced it by Rubycon MBZ 3300uF 6.3V. I was suspecting the cap a little bulging after like 2 months of usage (powering 2G of 2,5-3-3-6 ram at 2.60V @ 230Mhz), but I believed him, because - hell - it is a Rubycon, is not it?


He broke off the right one...

Few stability problems I had recently build up in unexpected reset after like 3h straight playing BF2 recently. I recapped these two Nichicons HZ (now one Nichicon HZ and one Rubycon MBZ) with Samxons GA 3300uF 6.3V and it is safe to say the problems went away as quickly, as by waving by magic stick.

When I desolder the Rubycon MBZ, the bulging become more apparent, as on the top it is only very slight bump, but the bottom seal are more signicificately bend...

Obviously, poor MBZ Ruby don't stand a chance where hi-end caps like HZ or GA are designed to be utilized, as MBZ is - compared to HZ or GA - just pretty basic cap... Even the best from Rubycon line, the MCZ ones are nowhere near the HZ/GA specs, but the guy installed higher capacity (slightly better specs then) but it was also a previously used Rubycon.

We don't know in witch state if was, and he is not talking.

So, my question is - does someone replaced hi-quality caps with just bigger but lower quality ones and witch what results?

Since it somewhat shock me, that MBZ Ruby can't make it in just my Vdimm RAM voltage powering circuit...


When we check out the specs:
Samxon GA 1800uF 16V - ESR 0,0065 - ripple 4140 (2 000 h) 10x25
Nichicon HZ 1800uF 16V - ESR 0,0065 - ripple 4140 (2 000 h) 10x25
Samxon GC 1800uF 16V - ESR 0,008 - ripple 3370 (2 000 h) 12.5x25
Rubycon MCZ 1800uF 16V - ESR 0,009 - ripple 3230 (2 000 h) 10x25
Samxon GC 1800uF 16V - ESR 0,009 - ripple 3190 (2 000 h) 10x25
Rubycon MBZ 1800uF 16V - ESR 0,013 - ripple 2800 (2 000 h) 10x23

...it become apparent that these Ruby MBZ and MCZ caps are NOT even comparable (hell, nothing except GA Samxons are) to Nichicon HZ. Neverless, could such higher specs required replace kill Rubycon MBZ cap in normal usage - like 230Mhz is nothing and 2.60V is also nothing. Fanless case, tough, but other than that - it should not fail, or it should fail???


PS. I noticed the GA ones have slightly more thick wires that the Nichicon HZ and Ruby MBZ, probably to cope up with the specs/pulses. They still fit w/o problems into the holes, just need a little more cleaning of the holes, witch is what caught me by surprise

[Topcat]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

Well, where the pic of this so-called vented rubycon? I call total BS on this. In my 5 years of recapping motherboards and over 15 years in the electronics field, I've seen maybe a dozen bad rubycon caps. In the right conditions, ANY cap will vent/fail, including the illustrious Samxons. I had a Tyan board filled with bad Rubycon ZL series caps, the board was in a rackmount which had zero ventilation, and I've seen some Dell GX270's with a Rubycon MCZ behind the AGP slot fail, and this was caused by failed Nichicon's failing further up the line. Nichicon has no room to speak, they are crap. I remove bad nichicon's from boards EVERY DAY!

You sir, are the propaganda master! This isn't the first time you posted with nonsense of mass Rubycon failures which were untrue or posted elsewhere in efforts to bash this site, you do that constantly on that shit forum of yours that won't even load over here, I got that info from screen shots others posted. Your credibility was ruined a long time ago, so next time you have some bull to post, post proof.

[kc8adu]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

agreed.
the few i have found bad were either run way too hot or got a double dose of ripple thanks to other failed caps.
i dont see any mbz/mcz in that pic.
the nichicon hz may or may not be ticking timebombs though.
and that trodass forum gives me a "forbidden" message here.

[scarfman]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

I've seen some Dell GX270's with a Rubycon MCZ behind the AGP slot fail, and this was caused by failed Nichicon's failing further up the line.

Not trying to play devil's advocate, but I don't believe these failing MCZs are related to ones replacing previously failing Nichicons. We've had probably 2 dozen of these in that exact spot fail & many of them were from boards that were never recapped & came with the original purchased system before Dell even started recapping.

Just my $.02 worth.

Also, has anyone seen the Nichicon HN(M) series that are dated after Apr 04 failing? We have a few of these boards that were some of the first recapping from Dell that have Nichicons dated late 04 or early 05 & I'm just wondering if we need to monitor these for failure also.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

I got two Sapphire A9RX480 "Grouper" mobos, and they use in the RAM Vdimm powering two Nichicon HZ 2200uF 6.3V caps. The previous owner by careless manipulation broke off one of them. He replaced it by Rubycon MBZ 3300uF 6.3V.

One possibility here is that by having an HZ 2200uF in parallel with an MCZ 3300uF it may have caused an impedance mismatch so that the MCZ was handling significantly more ripple current than the HZ (think of two unequal resistors in parallel - the lower value R handles more current than the higher value R). Lytics' impedance has a negative tempco, so heating the MCZ more than the HZ could make the mismatch worse.

Just a thought ...

[Topcat]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

Not trying to play devil's advocate, but I don't believe these failing MCZs are related to ones replacing previously failing Nichicons. We've had probably 2 dozen of these in that exact spot fail & many of them were from boards that were never recapped & came with the original purchased system before Dell even started recapping.

Just my $.02 worth.

Also, has anyone seen the Nichicon HN(M) series that are dated after Apr 04 failing? We have a few of these boards that were some of the first recapping from Dell that have Nichicons dated late 04 or early 05 & I'm just wondering if we need to monitor these for failure also.

I've seen that ONE particular cap fail on the GX270 when the 3x 1800uF 16v Nichicon HN series VRM filter caps would vent, causing the obvious to happen.

Nichicon HM and HN series caps fail all the time. As I stated in a previous post, I remove vented ones from boards EVERY DAY. I never see a board with failing MBZ or MCZ caps. The only mass Rubycon failure I've seen is a Tyan dual AMD board loaded with ZL series, and those ran for over 3 years in a stuffy server cabinet and finally failed from overheating.

This thread was nothing more than another of Trodas's propaganda, this isn't the first time he's done this. I only left it in place so he can't cry elsewhere that he's being censored, thats his favorite argument. He'll post nonsense with no proof (like this mysterious MCZ with no pictures), it gets deleted, and then he cried on other boards how we are 'shutting him up'.

[Tom41]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

Any cap will vent if put under excess electrical strain and/or high temperatures. If a Rubycon is in parallel with other 'bad' caps, and those ones vent and short, excess strain will be put on the Ruby - which may cause it to bulge and vent as well.

Likewise, I've seen blown Rubycons inside PSUs where the cooling fan has failed; they were simply subjected to a higher temperature than their vent rating. Also, in my old VCR a Panasonic FC bulged (and the VCR died) due to being 'cooked' by the cable box the VCR was sitting on

[gonzo0815]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

ALways the same storry. Yes, those numbers of 0,00xx esr are looking great. But i think some people considere esr as an cure for all (i don`t exclude me completely from this). This just is not true. There is more than 3,5mOhms less esr on caps. Up to day, i only thrust Rubycon and Panasonic 100%. And i am shure, that Rubycon has their reasons, to make no caps with lower esr. To make this story complete, just remember the real reason for that low esr caps: to allow boardmakers to cheap out on caps. Nothing else. Any boardmaker can use more caps in serie, if they need lower esr. For me there is the genreall rule, the lower the esr, the lower the endurance. And Even Rubycon makes there no exception. That said, yes may be an MBZ can vent, but hardly caused by a Vmem regulator.

[yanz]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

the lower the esr, the lower the endurance

exactly what my opinion too.

[Big Pope]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

the genreall rule, the lower the esr, the lower the endurance.

Agree, but now all ultra Low ESR qutoe with 2000 @ 105'C is acceptable and reasonable and suit for using in PC system today.

[trodas]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

[Topcat]

Re: Can Rubycons bulge in normal usage?

That rubycon cap is not vented, if it was it was very subtle, it was not easy to see. You typed the holy f'ing bible and made no more sense than a whining school girl. Please find another forum to troll. These responses are rather hilarious. Post negative crap on other boards all you want, your whiny posts will be deleted from now on. Those responses were so ridiculous they weren't worthy of even replying. Now you can complain about being censored, because we're done with you. You are the ONLY member that people have actually complained to me about, so I think its time for you and badcaps.net to part ways. If you wish to participate, post facts from now on. No more suggestion, innuendo, politics, and personal garbage.

If you would just stick to the factual rather than such 'innuendo' suggesting that Rubies will fail under 'normal' usage, and that they're inferior. Nichicon is an ok brand as long as you avoid the HM and HN series as I stated, someone (and its not me) needs to learn reading comprehension. I'll be the first to rag on Rubycon if they start showing signs of being problematic:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1072

However, I wont discredit rubycon over one bad MBZ. Hell, someone posted a bad Samxon here a while back, have we discredited Samxon?? No, we have not. I've had some Samxon GC and GD's running for about a year, they're doing great. The GA's I got have been running for about 4 months now, and they're doing great as well, ESR readings are holding well on all of them. I will say that the ESR readings on the GC and GD Samxon's are a little higher than they spec out as, but it's nothign to worry about. I can care less how good any cap looks on paper, I only care about real world performance. Hell, HM and HN series Nichicons spec out nice on paper, and they've proven to be garbage in the real world. You wonder why I get angry, reread some of the nonsense you've posted, and maybe you'll understand. I've defended you many times when I thought you were right, but when you're posting misleading or false information, I won't hesitate to tell you so, and this thread was very misleading.