APC RS 800 Completely Dead

[Krankshaft]

I recently came across an APC RS 800 UPS. It's completely dead the surge outlets work (they are always on).

However other than that there are no signs of life. There are no batteries connected but from what I've heard it should power up connect the backup outlets to AC and illuminate both the online and replace battery light in that case.

Any idea what would cause a UPS to go completely belly up like this?

No toasty components on the board either. All 3 fuses check out good too.

[PlainBill]

"It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so." Will Rogers 1879-1935

I just checked this on an APC Smart-UPS 1250. If the batteries are bad (or disconnected) you won't get anything out of the backup outlets. This corresponds to what I have experienced on UPSs from both APC and other suppliers.

PlainBill

[Toasty]

I confirm PB's statement. I have 4 APC units on my systems here, 1200-1500va. All do same thing with no batts.

FYI: http://www.upsclub.org/schem/

Not in any order I could see, but very tough to find those.

Good Hunting!
Toast

[Krankshaft]

Doh the manual for my CS 500 says the unit will come with both the online and battery lights if the battery isn't connected.

The RS 800 according to the manual flow chart WON'T come on without batteries connected as you guys said.

Damn APC they should standarize on this stuff.

I needed to order some new batts from Gruber Power anyways.

They've supported my UPS's for years very good batteries.

I guess I've had such annoying repair problems lately I'm not willing to look at the obvious .

[Krankshaft]

Wow in both manuals there is a contradiction in the troubleshooting table it says it won't come on without a battery and in the print section it says it will. With the online and replace battery lights lit. I read the print section and thought it would boot.

I got this unit without batteries. I figured the transfer relay would at least connect them to line voltage.

There we go I didn't misunderstand the guys at APC are idiots . They made the mistake in two different manuals no less.

The CS 500:

Section 6 final bullet point.

http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/A...7UZA_R0_EN.pdf

The RS 800:

Section 8 final bullet point.

http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/A...7V3J_R0_EN.pdf

[Toasty]

Try Battery Mart instead of Gruber. Had good success with their units and shipping is less than 1/2 Gruber(eBay-er).

RBC7 for my units - shipping is $28 Gruber, $13 Battery Mart.

Toast

[Krankshaft]

Thanks you can never have too many sources.

[zoomer]

Hi,

It would be cool to know how you disassembled the UPS.
I have an 800i with all LEDs flashing and would like to know if i could fix it by myself.

and where are the three fuses are located?

bye Zoomer

[zoomer]

ah ok, I had to use far more force then I thought to remove the front panel.

But still where are all the fuses?
I located F1 (just a pcb connection), F2 & F7 (Two green fuses similar to a car fuse) and F3 which is a brown round something.

So F4, F5 and F6 are missing.

[Krankshaft]

Disassembly for those interested for the RS 800 was as follows I almost broke the casing disassembling it. Mainly because I couldn't figure out how to take it apart I eventually got it.

Remove the 4 screws on the back outlet panel pull it off. Remove the front panel pull it straight off. This will require some brute force it is retained by 4 snap clips that won't let go without a strong pull.

Just don't pull too hard you don't want to tear the ribbon cable for the front panel LED / Switch Assembly.

Remove the three screws under the front panel and the side cover will pull right up and off.

The PCB is snapped into the casing. You may have to insert a flat bladed screw driver near certain points at the PCB and twist it to expand the casing and pull the board up.

[Krankshaft]

Originally Posted by zoomer

ah ok, I had to use far more force then I thought to remove the front panel.

But still where are all the fuses?
I located F1 (just a pcb connection), F2 & F7 (Two green fuses similar to a car fuse) and F3 which is a brown round something.

So F4, F5 and F6 are missing.

It's not uncommon for manufacturers to axe parts from the original design to save a few bucks I see it all the time.

The dual automotive fuses are probably protection for the two batteries.

[kc8adu]

some of these apc plastic units are on recall due to a fire hazzard.
might want to look it up.
that said i have seen several apc units where the 400v cap in the charger goes bad and kills the topswitch.no charging and soon a dead ups.the guts of these are identical to those cheap and nasty cyberpower units.
these things are junk!
not the same apc from back in the days.
and yes the double fuses are on the +batt.
a cheap way to get a 60a fuse.green=30a.

[Krankshaft]

In my RS 800 the 400V charging cap was a Chemicon so I guess they learned their lesson.

[Pyrotech]

Hi, Kraneshaft, after looking at your board picture, I have a XS 800 with exaltly the same PCB in it. Upon close examination I found the part number 640-0189D, which is the number on the schematics. You won't find the schematics on www.upsclub.org, they are all newer APC's except one from 1999 design. The schematics we are looking for would be 189D as labeled on that site. We may get somewhere with the board PWA number.
I checked it out and only found F3 blown, but exactly where is the F1 fuse(trace on board)? I found the batteries reading 4V total and no lights on front panel. But when I put good batteries it worked fine. But the unit will not come on or charge the drained batteries.
By the way the correct way to remove the front panel is put a screw driver in the slot on the bottom of the front panel and pry it off, it will unsnap but still requires almost breaking it off. I found the best price for the batteries at SLA batteries on www.ebay.com 12V 7.2AH but you have to buy in pairs but $21 for 2 plus $11 shipping. 4 for $40. it uses APC RBC32 pair, or buy 2 RBC2 batteries.

[Pyrotech]

Schematics are Proprietary

Question
Can I get the schematics for APC products? If not, why are they proprietary?

Answer
APC does not distribute schematic drawings of our products to the public. Our
schematics contain proprietary information.
Additionally, there are no user serviceable parts inside the UPS and
disassembly or modification of the UPS voids all warranty agreements. Only
internal APC staff and authorized service centers whose staff have undergone
training for service of our products should attempt to service or repair an APC
UPS. Distributing schematics of the UPS to the public would only serve untrained users to attempt to repair or to modify a product which could result in product failure or injury.

For these reasons, APC chooses not to distribute schematic drawings and
strongly advises against service of our products by untrained personnel. This
policy is quite common among manufacturers of power electronic equipment.

For further information contact APC at www.support.apcc.com

Thought you like to see how bad APC support is for independant degreed technicians who are fully capable of repairing a UPS with a proper service manual and schematic. They have to give the info to hospitals so I am going to find out if anyone has the schematics. I've been fixing electronics since I was 18 thats 40 years experience and I can't get a manual....

[Krankshaft]

Yeah a nice canned answer (i.e. cut and paste BS) that manufacturers distribute in order to encourage you to buy a new unit.

While being able to maintain a repair monopoly on their units at the same time. I think there are only 2 "APC certified repair centers" in the US.

The only thing "properietary" inside my unit was 2 microcontrollers. One probably for the Powerchute interface and the other for the UPS.

[PlainBill]

Yeah, that kind of answer tends to tick me off.

Of course, consider this. APC has a $10,000 warranty against damage to anything connected to one of their UPS'. Joe the Tinkerer orders the schematics from APC and modifies a UPS, which fries Joe's $3000 plasma TV. Joe then claims the UPS was defective, and wants $3000 from APC. APC denies responsibility, pointing to the unauthorized modification. Joe's lawyer claims making the schematics available implies tacit consent to modifications.

In a more plausible scenario, have you ever met a twiddler - the guy who will tweak every pot 'to see what happens'? The same kind of guy who will replace a 15 amp fuse with a 20 amp. Or use a 45 amp circuit breaker to feed a circuit wired with 14 gauge wire.

PlainBill

[Krankshaft]

It's not much different from switching power supplies come to think of it good luck contacting a manufacturer like Antec you'd probably get the same BS.

[Pyrotech]

Hi, I noticed the difference between the RS 800 and XS 800, the RS has 10/100 surge protection jacks(2). So your board is not 640-0189D. Can you provide the circuit etched number? Its on the board top and bottom edge nearest the AC connectors. Hopefully with that number we will find the schematics on www.upsclub.org/schem, etc. The only difference will the the 10/100 surge protection probably. I noticed APC really believes in updating. Reading a schematic on there, was 1991, updated to like 2003. Thanks for your help.

By the way, modifying a UPS would void any warranty on it, thats standard for the industry. Including the insurance policy. By the way I looked up for XS 800/RS 800 $150000 lifetime equipment warranty. I get tired of hearing, 'oh buy a new UPS, get a new insurance policy' Its lifetime.... Batteries can be had for $11 if you look around. $16 with shipping. hehe

[Pyrotech]

Hi, I took your photo of the board, exactly like mine and blew it up and corrected the gamma level where the board number should be, and guess what? They either removed or moved the board number! Come to think of it, it might be the same number. After noting APC likes to just update the same board over and over. Please let me know where F1 fuse trace is thanks!

[IMG][IMG]www.lynncomp.com/apc rs 800pn.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]