Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

[PowerAmpFreak]

One more of those classic LG panels and drive electronics.
It's an Hyundai model HY4210, no picture at all, draws 220W from mains, buzzing sound is heard.
Green powerled begins to flash continously directly after startup.
Owner says the YSUS board were changed half a year ago. No fuses blown.
Any hints?

[PlainBill]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

One more of those classic LG panels and drive electronics.
It's an Hyundai model HY4210, no picture at all, draws 220W from mains, buzzing sound is heard.
Green powerled begins to flash continously directly after startup.
Owner says the YSUS board were changed half a year ago. No fuses blown.
Any hints?

1. Identify the source of the buzzing

2. Check the output voltages of the power supply and the drive waveforms from the Y-sus and Z-sus.

PlainBill

[PowerAmpFreak]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

Do you have any testpoints or other directions where to find the drive waveforms? The Y-sus board is 6871QYH027B, I think you know this one.

Plainbill, would you please link to the LG PDP training manual once more.

[cadiman]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

scribd.com

[PlainBill]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

Do you have any testpoints or other directions where to find the drive waveforms? The Y-sus board is 6871QYH027B, I think you know this one.

Plainbill, would you please link to the LG PDP training manual once more.

Links are here. Another way would be to Google scribd xxxxx plasma training manual where xxxxx is the brand. All sorts of things pop up.

PlainBill

[PowerAmpFreak]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

Buzzing sound come from Z-sus. Replaced.
Now the set starts up but gives a weird picture. Any thoughts?
The fields slowly walks from one side to the other.
Powersupply seems ok.

[PowerAmpFreak]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

Really haven't got a clue what's going on in this one.
Powersupply voltages OK. Z-sus replaced after making much buzz and NO picture at all. Could Y-sus be responsible for such a picture?

[PowerAmpFreak]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

This set has the same boards as LG MZ-42PZ44. Tried another (known good) Y-SUS board and another known good Z-SUS board, also tried another logic board. Now the screen is ALL black, not the weird picture as before (see previous post). I have drive waveforms from both Y-SUS and Z-SUS, heatsinks heats up normally, set draws 135W (just like when it's ok and have black picture). Statusled for LVDS sync-detect flashes normally. (When LVDS cable not attached, this led is off). No protectled on PSU. All output voltages seems OK.
It appears all drive electronics operate, though picture is ALL black.
Could it be something common with the Y buffers? These I have not tried to change. But why should ALL buffers go at the same time?
I need advice what to check or do next.

[PlainBill]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

This set has the same boards as LG MZ-42PZ44. Tried another (known good) Y-SUS board and another known good Z-SUS board, also tried another logic board. Now the screen is ALL black, not the weird picture as before (see previous post). I have drive waveforms from both Y-SUS and Z-SUS, heatsinks heats up normally, set draws 135W (just like when it's ok and have black picture). Statusled for LVDS sync-detect flashes normally. (When LVDS cable not attached, this led is off). No protectled on PSU. All output voltages seems OK.
It appears all drive electronics operate, though picture is ALL black.
Could it be something common with the Y buffers? These I have not tried to change. But why should ALL buffers go at the same time?
I need advice what to check or do next.

Are you sure you have video output from the Small Signal Board (I note you seem to have sync)? Some logic boards have switches or jumpers to put the panel into test mode (full white screen). The easy way to determine this might be to start by searching for a service manual for the panel.

One other point you have not mentioned is the X-drive signals.

PlainBill

[PowerAmpFreak]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

I have the service manual (thanks Elektrotanya) but it has very limited content. Half of the 49 pages is basically how to set up the reciever, inputs and outputs. There are schematics for the SSB, but nothing more.
No troubleshooting guides or how to set the logicboard in "white mode".
As you say, I don't know if I have any picture information in the LVDS. I don't know how to verify this. Even if I have the sync, it doesn't mean I have picture info, right?
I really hope it isn't the SSB on this set also. I have 4 TV's now with SSB failures.
Anyone know how to put this set's logicboard in "white mode"?
About the X-drive, I'm not really sure how to check. You mean the collumn drivers?

[PlainBill]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

I have the service manual (thanks Elektrotanya) but it has very limited content. Half of the 49 pages is basically how to set up the reciever, inputs and outputs. There are schematics for the SSB, but nothing more.
No troubleshooting guides or how to set the logicboard in "white mode".
As you say, I don't know if I have any picture information in the LVDS. I don't know how to verify this. Even if I have the sync, it doesn't mean I have picture info, right?
I really hope it isn't the SSB on this set also. I have 4 TV's now with SSB failures.
Anyone know how to put this set's logicboard in "white mode"?
About the X-drive, I'm not really sure how to check. You mean the collumn drivers?

Would you do both of us a favor. Walk over to a wall, pound your head against it - twice - then come back and read the rest of this.

I have repeated this information several times, it doesn't sink in. Maybe it's the time difference, maybe it's the fact we are on opposite sides of the earth, but you aren't listening to what I am saying.

The service manual for the TV won't cover the plasma display panel, nor will it cover the buffers, sustain boards, or the main logic board. The plasma panel and the buffers, sustain boards, and main logic board are supplied as a unit by the panel manufacturer. If you Google the model number of the PANEL you may be able to locate the service manual for the panel, which gives the troubleshooting information for the panel.

As an EXAMPLE, this link gives you the service manual for the SDI (Samsung) 42SDV3 plasma panel. If you dig all the way through it to page 42 they finally mention the switches on the logic main board.

Now I'm not stupid, I understand you are dealing with an LG panel - an early LG panel. So search for a service manual using the model number of the plasma panel, NOT the model number of the TV. Or look through the two LG training manuals and see if either of them mention anything like that.

PlainBill

[PowerAmpFreak]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

I will go for the LG training manual. Thanks for your kind advice.

[PowerAmpFreak]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

By the way, it wasn't the Hyundai service manual I meant. I checked the manual for LG MZ-42PZ44 which obviously is a LG panel, LG drive electronics, and a LG SSB. In that manual there were no other schematics than SSB, and no troubleshooting tips. In the LG training manual there were a lot of troubleshooting, I'm halfway through.

[PlainBill]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

By the way, it wasn't the Hyundai service manual I meant. I checked the manual for LG MZ-42PZ44 which obviously is a LG panel, LG drive electronics, and a LG SSB. In that manual there were no other schematics than SSB, and no troubleshooting tips. In the LG training manual there were a lot of troubleshooting, I'm halfway through.

Understand how these TVs are made. LG Electronics has a division that makes plasma displays. These displays include the plasma panel itself, the buffers, sustain cards, logic card, and probably the power supply.

They sell these panels to Sony, Philips, Hyundai, Vizio, Akai, HP, Toshiba, Insignia, etc AND to LG Electronics TV division. Those companies build them into TVs, and sometimes provide service manuals for the TVs. They rarely provide service information for the panel.

An analogy would be if you order a new car and specify a high end sound system in place of the POS AM radio they normally supply. The service manual will not include information on the sound system; that was purchased from another company and installed in by a robot.

You have my sympathy going through those training manuals. My current theory was they were translated form Korean to English by a Russian who understood neither Korean nor English.

PlainBill

[PowerAmpFreak]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

PlainBill, thanks for telling me this again. BUT, believe it or not, I do understand that how plasmas are manufactured.
That's why I use an LG service manual for MZ-42PZ44 instead of a Hyundai HY4210 service manual. Isn't that exactly what you told me to do?
Maybe there is chassis specific service manuals, which includes detailed info about panel and its drive electronics. Anyway, you're the expert. I'm not.
So, how would you verify that LVDS has picture content, except for replacing the SSB?
You know PB, I'm learning, each day, even if it takes some time!

[PlainBill]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

PlainBill, thanks for telling me this again. BUT, believe it or not, I do understand that how plasmas are manufactured.
That's why I use an LG service manual for MZ-42PZ44 instead of a Hyundai HY4210 service manual. Isn't that exactly what you told me to do?
Maybe there is chassis specific service manuals, which includes detailed info about panel and its drive electronics. Anyway, you're the expert. I'm not.
So, how would you verify that LVDS has picture content, except for replacing the SSB?
You know PB, I'm learning, each day, even if it takes some time!

No, that is not what I told you to do. The MZ-42PZ44 is a television set. The service manual for it does not cover the plasma panel, nor the buffers, sustain, and main logic cards.

What you should be looking for is a Service Manual or Training Manual covering the PDP42V50000; PDP42V50330; 6348Q-E036A; or 6348Q-E038B plasma panel, NOT a service manual covering a TV using this panel. This seems to be known as the LG 42V5 plasma panel.

PlainBill

[PowerAmpFreak]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

Great! I'm quite amazed how much info there actually is, provided by the manufacturers. Somehow it feels their intensions were quite good in making it possible to repair those animals. It's a pity that spareparts is often no longer available short after production termination.

[PlainBill]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

Great! I'm quite amazed how much info there actually is, provided by the manufacturers. Somehow it feels their intensions were quite good in making it possible to repair those animals. It's a pity that spareparts is often no longer available short after production termination.

A lot of information is available. There are also a lot of gaps that can be quite frustrating.

Spare parts are an ongoing problem. I don't know what the situation is like in Australia, but here is the US carrying an inventory of spare parts has serious tax implications. I believe the situation is something like this: A Z-sustain for a 42" LG plasma costs $35 each (parts and labor) to build in a production run of 1000. LG sells them as part of a panel assembly, and marks up them to $50, assuming they will have to replace some that fail in the first year. They also make them available as spares for $150 each. The TV manufacturers mark them up to $295 each. So when LG Electronics of America has 100 Z-sustains sitting in their California warehouse, those cards cost less than $5000 total to build and ship to the US. But they show on their books as a taxable asset worth $29,500.

At the time the TV was being built the panel design group was already working on the next generation of panel that is easier to manufacture, lighter, brighter, and uses less power, and needs a new Z-Sustain. So ther is no point in continuing roduction of the old cards.

At some point the bean (rice) counters at LG say they can't afford to keep the spares on hand (remember, they are paying taxes on every one sitting in the warehouse). They will use some guesswork to estimate how many will be needed, based on the rate of failure seen so far. And they will dump the excess cards on the surplus market for less than $70 each.

PlainBill

[mbates14]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

Aint it the truith. ive pounded my head in the wall over this goofy toshiba. that uses the PDP50X3 series panel/chassis, and parts are crazy expensive.

I rebuilt the YPPD Hybrid-IC IPM and got it up and running. then i got the same exact bars you were having. turns out, the y-scan signal was missing becuase mosfets blew on the buffers, so instead of the address period being able to address the individual Y pixels, it addressed the entire row, no way for the individual pixels to be selected. I replaced mosfets and got it goi ng for a little bit, but eventually failed again.

the person just bought a new TV, so im stuck with this PDP50X3 Panel and parts. the panel is good. but the rest of it, not so good.

So i am out there looking for a prime candidate for a panel swap, like trying to find a TV with a PDP50X3 in it with a busted panel. perfect candidate. Problem is, I dont know of a way to find out what TVs and models of TVs that used the PDP50X3

[PlainBill]

Re: Hyundai plasma HY4210 buzz no picture

Aint it the truith. ive pounded my head in the wall over this goofy toshiba. that uses the PDP50X3 series panel/chassis, and parts are crazy expensive.

I rebuilt the YPPD Hybrid-IC IPM and got it up and running. then i got the same exact bars you were having. turns out, the y-scan signal was missing becuase mosfets blew on the buffers, so instead of the address period being able to address the individual Y pixels, it addressed the entire row, no way for the individual pixels to be selected. I replaced mosfets and got it goi ng for a little bit, but eventually failed again.

the person just bought a new TV, so im stuck with this PDP50X3 Panel and parts. the panel is good. but the rest of it, not so good.

So i am out there looking for a prime candidate for a panel swap, like trying to find a TV with a PDP50X3 in it with a busted panel. perfect candidate. Problem is, I dont know of a way to find out what TVs and models of TVs that used the PDP50X3

Google may be your friend. A few minutes searching and I found suggestions that LG Electronics, Vizio, Toshiba, Audiovox, and Akai all used that panel.

One trick I use is to search for sub assemblies - Y-Sus and Z-Sus typically - and see what brands and models pop up.

PlainBill