Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[Khron]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

A friend brought me this Lucent PSU out of an SGI Octane (if i've understood correctly), after reported random freezes & crashes. All Japanese caps, none bloated, which turned my suspicions towards the mainboard and local VRM's.

Now, i know almost everyone's heard the phrase "built like a tank", but DAYUM!

3-board construction:

- bottom-most board (4th photo) seems to be one the secondaries (or possibly some DC/DC business going on), chock-full off fat Nichicon PL's
- middle board (5th & 6th) is the mains-input and active PFC, by the looks of things, plus possibly some stand-by rails(?)
- top board (7th, 8th & 9th) is yet another set of outputs, but this time complete with part of the primary (hence the 450v caps and transformers)

[Compgeke]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Power Man FSP235-60GT.

I'm honestly a bit surprised that it's decent. The cabling doesn't feel the best and it's not exactly high end, it's a 235W from 1999. Not all the best caps (a lot of YEC) but there are a few Rubycons and the main caps are Matsushita.

Anyways, some pics.

[momaka]

Page 112: Macron MPT-401 (ATX9912p, 0103p REV:A5)

Okay, here's one of the many PSUs I promised to post but never did.
It's a Macron MPT-401 (ATX9912p, 0103p REV:A5)
Before I begin, though, I would like to give some very special thanks to Pentium4 for giving me this PSU - it is absolutely appreciated .

Okay, I always start with the case... except that I forgot to take pictures of it this time . So, let's start with the label:

Maximum output is 400W, with possibility for 240W on the 12V rail (20A). That should be plenty even for a modern system, as long as you don't go crazy with some high-power CPU and GPU combo or multiple GPUs.

Next, let's see a top view of the insides:

... and what we have here is a good old classic half-bridge design typical of many Macron PSUs. Some of you may be thinking, man, this thing is old and inefficient... etc. etc.
But you know what - who cares?! This design is more solid than igneous rock . With a proper recap, this PSU will work longer than you care to use it.
It is one of my favorite designs for sure, if not the most favorite.


Primary Side / Input
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425706988
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425706988
What's there?
2x LGU GS-L safety X caps across the AC (0.47 uF and 0.22 uF)
4x safety Y caps (with proper agency stamps and approvals!)
Two input EMI/RFI chokes; 20 AWG, 600V wiring (nice thick wires, though)
KBU806 bridge rectifier (rated for 8A @ 65C ambient and 600V reverse DC voltage)
Two Fuhjyyu LP 200 V, 820 uF caps measuring 703/723 uF (credit goes to Pentium4 for that, as well as for making the stickers ).
Two 2SC3320 NPN BJTs capable of 15A continuous current
2sc5027 NPN BJT for the 5VSB supply
5VSB is a 2-transistor design without a critical cap
"35" or "39" -size transformer for the main PS
standard "16" or "19" -size transformers for the 5VSB and feedback sections
50V, 10 uF caps for the BJT drive circuit on the main PS

Secondary Side / Output
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425706988
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425706988
All 18 AWG, 300 V -rated wires on the output.

3.3V rail: single SBL3040pt schottky rectifier; regulation is done by a mag-amp circuit
5V rail: two SBL3040pt schottky rectifiers in parallel (rated for 30A each)
12V rail: two STPR1620CT ultra-fast rectifiers in parallel

PSU has been recapped professionally by Pentium 4, and all caps are either Nichicon HE, Nichicon PW, and a few United Chemicon KY and KZH (?) here and there.
3.3V rail: two 10V, 2200 uF, 10 mm dia. with PI coil between them
5V rail: same as 3.3V rail, but no PI coil
12V rail: a single 16V, 3300 uF, 12.5 mm dia. cap, no PI coil before it.
-12 rail: single 16V, 220 uF cap with PI coil before it
-5V rail: single 6.3V, 470 uF cap with PI coil before it
5VSB rail: two 10V, 1000 uF, 8 mm dia. caps with PI coil between them
Sec. Side Aux. Rail: 25V, 470 uF, 8mm cap

Minimum load resistors for 3.3V, 5V, 12V, -12V, and -5V rails:
10 Ohm, 2W; 25 Ohm, 2W, none, 620 Ohm, 1W, 270 Ohm, 1W
For the -12V and -5V rails, the minimum load resistors are connected between those rails and 5V rather than ground (not sure why , but that's how it's designed).
I might do some swapping/exchanging of those minimum load resistors, though. Both the 3.3V and 5V rails draw nearly 1W of power each.

Finally, some underside shots:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425706988
As you can see, there aren't any long leads anywhere. Soldering from the factory is okay. But most importantly - good primary-secondary side separation. Good job Macron .

Oh, and a picture of the fan label:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425706988
It's a 120 mm ball bearing Power Logic PL12B12M rated for 0.2A at 12V. There is a fan control circuit inside this PSU, so the fan is extremely quiet, yet moves plenty of air. And what can I say, I've always been a fan of Power Logic fans (sorry, it's late night here and I couldn't resist a pun .

Also, an interesting note about the heatsinks: I'm not really sure if they are aluminum or not (the main parts, that is). I tried scratching them, and they seem golden-yellowish on the inside. Brass perhaps? The orange "add-on" fins are aluminum though. Anyways, they do seem adequate.

All in all, this is a great PSU! Again, thank you Pentium4

[c_hegge]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It looks pretty good. It's a strange heatsink design, though. It's probably better suited to a 120mm fan than most.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I think it can do more than 350W without falling out of specs.

Ball bearing fan.. That's great!

[ben7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Some of you may be thinking, man, this thing is old and inefficient... etc. etc.
But you know what - who cares?! This design is more solid than igneous rock . With a proper recap, this PSU will work longer than you care to use it.

Yes, like old diesel-electric train locomotives. Not as efficient as modern ones, but they are simpler (easier to maintain, fewer things to break down), and they last a long time with just a little maintenance. Them modern GE locomotives get the nickname "toasters" for having fuel leaks (and consequentially an engine fire), and blown turbochargers (anything from smoking a LOT, to an exhaust fire, to uncontrollable engine overspeed and destruction).

Also, an interesting note about the heatsinks: I'm not really sure if they are aluminum or not (the main parts, that is). I tried scratching them, and they seem golden-yellowish on the inside. Brass perhaps? The orange "add-on" fins are aluminum though. Anyways, they do seem adequate.

You sure they aren't copper? Brass is worse than copper and aluminum, thermal conductivity wise. ( If I recall correctly )

It looks pretty good. It's a strange heatsink design, though. It's probably better suited to a 120mm fan than most.

Yeah I agree. That's the first thing I thought when I looked at the pics.

[Behemot]

Re: Page 112: Macron MPT-401 (ATX9912p, 0103p REV:A5)

"35" or "39" -size transformer for the main PS
standard "16" or "19" -size transformers for the 5VSB and feedback sections

How come? You don't have a meter?

to uncontrollable engine overspeed and destruction).

That's called diesel runaway and in 99 % cases, it is from very bad maintenance. In diesel car, leaking turbocharger will inform you looong time before it is so critical the leaking oil starts burning. But morons do not care and here is what happens. I heard most of the locomotives got back to service…guess it is still worth it. For a car, if you don't stop the runaway manually very fast and wait till the engine grinds in, than it is only good for parts.

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Hey nice PSU! Cool to see that you took it apart to analyze. It'll definitely last as long as you want it to. Even on a 12V heavy system, that single 3300uF KY cap should keep things in check

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It's a strange heatsink design, though. It's probably better suited to a 120mm fan than most.

I agree. And 120 mm fan it has!

Yes, like old diesel-electric train locomotives. Not as efficient as modern ones, but they are simpler (easier to maintain, fewer things to break down), and they last a long time with just a little maintenance.

I like that analogy. That's exactly how I find these PSUs to be.

You sure they aren't copper? Brass is worse than copper and aluminum, thermal conductivity wise. ( If I recall correctly )

Well, I can't say I am 100% what they were. Under the surface (after scratching one of the heatsinks intentionally to see), there was no orange glow, so I wrote them off as "not copper". But I guess they could have been heavily anodized too. And yeah, brass didn't make much sense to me either, but the heatsinks did have a bit of a yellow/gold "glow" to them. Maybe it's plain aluminum after all though. Looking at the extrusion rivets, it seems so now.

How come? You don't have a meter? :surprised:

I closed up the PSU and that's when I realized, oh I forgot to look at the transformers. So then I just peeked through the fan vents on top and the traffos appeared to be normal sizes, not faked like on cheap PSUs.

Cool to see that you took it apart to analyze.

That's because it was very easy to take apart and analyze . Didn't need to unsolder a single wire to get it out of the case. All PSUs should be like this!

Stay tuned for more. I have another Macron coming in a little bit. Just need to type up the post (and I am a slow guy).

[momaka]

Page 112: Inno Power (Macron) MPT-301 (MPT-9912p REV-A2)

And here is the smaller brother of that Macron I posted earlier:
Inno Power (Macron) MPT-301 (MPT-9912p REV:A2)

Manufactured August of 2002 according to warranty label.

I picked this up from Craigslist many, many years ago (looking at picture info: 2009 or possibly earlier). As soon as I opened it, I thought, this is a PSU I am going to recap and keep, even though its heatsinks looked quite a bit on the thin side. It sat in my closet for another few years before I finally recapped it, though. But when I did, it was totally worth it – the voltages are stable as a rock, regardless if I use this PSU on a 5V-based or 12V-based PC. Thus I ended up using it both as a main PSU in one computer and a test PSU for many others.

So, here is a picture of the case below (click link for new tab). Note the “FAN DOES NOT RUN POWER OUT ‘OK’ 11/05” writing – this is how I found the PSU. And indeed the fan was stuck. However, I am guessing someone continued to use this PSU even with the stuck fan for a little bit, judging by the “POWER OUT ‘OK’” .
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425959741

Moving onto the label:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425959741
Again we see a “NO FAN” user note, besides the typical Macron font. Ratings are rather fair (as you will read in a bit about the rectifiers used). Also, I can’t help but notice the goofy-looking UL logo – why is that? I know these Macron PSUs are legit when it comes to safety. Yet, the logo looks quite botched. Oh well… we care more about the “guts” than the label anyways, right?

And that’s where we are going… some internal pictures – firstly, from the top.

Again, we have a familiar 3-transformer, half-bridge sight we just saw in the other Macron PSU. Ah, but aren’t those bulged Fuhjyyus an eye sore? Keen eyes may have also noticed a slight darkening around the far side of the secondary heatsink – I wonder why?

Primary Side / Input
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425959741
Actually, I will tell you what is not visible in this picture: a daughterboard soldered to the AC receptacle. With that said, this is what is on the primary:
* 2x LGU GS-L safety X caps across the AC (0.47 uF and 0.22 uF) – one on AC daughterboard
* 4x safety Y caps (with proper agency stamps and approvals!) – two on AC daughterboard
* Two input EMI/RFI chokes; 20 AWG, 600V wiring (nice thick wires, again)
* RS606 bridge rectifier (rated for 6A @ 75C case T. and 800V reverse DC voltage).
* Two Fuhjyyu LP 200 V, 470 uF caps. Forgot to measure those back when I borrowed a ESR Micro meter, so I can’t tell if their capacity is legit. But they appear big enough for their capacity, unlike the Fuhjyyu primaries in the MPT-401.
* Two 2SC2625 NPN BJTs capable of 10A continuous current (for the main PS)
SC5027 NPN BJT for the 5VSB supply
* 5VSB is a 2-transistor design without a critical cap
* "35" -size transformer for the main PS and standard "16"/"19" -size transformers for the 5VSB and feedback sections
* 50V, 10 uF caps for the BJT drive circuit on the main PS

Secondary Side / Output
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425959741
*All 18 AWG, 300 V -rated wires on the output, except the 4-pin CPU connector – it has 20 AWG.

Output rectifiers;
3.3V rail: single SBL3040pt schottky rectifier; regulation is done by a mag-amp circuit
5V rail: single SBL3040pt schottky rectifier
12V rail: single MOSPEC F16C20C ultra-fast rectifier (but I later replaced it with a 20A 100V schottky rectifier)

Output caps:
3.3V rail: two 10V, 2200 uF, 10 mm dia. with PI coil between them
5V rail: same as 3.3V rail, but no PI coil
12V rail: a single 16V, 3300 uF, 12.5 mm dia. cap, no PI coil before it.
-12 rail: single 16V, 220 uF cap with PI coil before it
-5V rail: single 16V, 220 uF cap with PI coil before it
5VSB rail: two 10V, 2200 uF, 10 mm dia. caps with PI coil between them
Sec. Side Aux. Rail: 25V, 470 uF, 8mm cap

Originally, all output caps were Fuhjyyu TNR. I replaced with same capacity on the major rails. 3.3V rail got Panasonic FM, 5V rail UCC KY, 12V rail UCC KZE, and 5VSB rail only a single UCC KY (I kept one of the Fuhjyyus as it was located a bit further from the secondary heatsink and didn’t seem like it got overheated). The -5V rail received a 10mm dia 10V 1000 uF CapXon KM (I know, what a terrible choice!), since I didn’t have enough caps back when I did this PSU. It still seems to be doing “fine” in there, though. And being that the -5V rail is not heavily loaded, I think it should be okay. As for the -12V rail, I again didn’t have any suitable caps at the time, so I just left the lone 220 uF Fuhjyyu cap in there. The Sec. Side Aux. rail did get a new UCC KZE 470 uF cap, mainly because it is used for driving the main PS, so I found it important.

Minimum load resistors for 3.3V, 5V, 12V, -12V, and -5V rails:
10 Ohm, 2W; 25 Ohm, 2W, none, 620 Ohm, 1W, 270 Ohm, 1W
For the -12V and -5V rails, the minimum load resistors are connected between those rails and 5V rather than ground (not sure why , but that's how it's designed).
On this PSU, I actually did swap around some of the loading resistors. 3.3V rail now has what was originally on the 5V rail: i.e. 25 Ohm 2W resistor. 5V rail received a big 100 Ohm 3W resistor (overkill, I know). 12V rail doesn’t have a spot for anything so I left it as is. The -5V and -12V both got 1000 Ohm ½ W resistors IIRC.

Finally, some underside shots:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425959741
Just like the MPT-401, the soldering is quite okay and same good primary-secondary side separation.

Fan is a Superred CHA8012BS rated for 0.12A @ 12V. It was completely stuck and extremely hard to turn even by hand. What’s worse, there was no hole and rubber plug under the label on its back like most fan. Instead, there was a plastic plug that was heat-pressed onto the case plastic – no way to open it really… or so you might think .
But I did actually open it. Just drilled the crap off of that plastic . Once the shaft was exposed, I hammered the top (rotor) part of the fan out and cleaned everything. After doing a proper clean on the sleeve bearing, then some parallel groove scratching, then another clean and putting oil, the fan ran like a champ again – and still does to this day ever since I fixed it. No grinding, no whining, no weird noises. It just needed good cleaning and oil. So all in all, I think Superred fans are okay.

And finally, here are a few pictures after all of the work was done:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425959741
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425959741
Nice good Japanese caps almost everywhere (including some small ones). I didn’t replace single every cap, but I did replace the important ones – namely the two 10 uF 50V for the BJT drive, and the one that filters Vcc for the TL494.

And finally, the back of the case with a few mods:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1425959741
I basically added some holes to allow more air to go underneath the PCB. Hopefully, this should better cool off some of the smaller components that are soldered close to the PCB.

And that’s about everything to know about this PSU . *Whew*, another big post again. I hope you didn’t find it boring .

[kaboom]

Re: Page 112: Inno Power (Macron) MPT-301 (MPT-9912p REV-A2)

*Whew*, another big post again. I hope you didn't find it boring .

Not boring at all.

I like what you did for airflow.

That's certainly better than one of these:

http://arrowmax.com/storefront/produ...roducts_id=196

Good things come in small but powerful packages thanks to QMax. This 350-Watt power is the most compact, energy efficient power supply in the business!

Um, no. That's not the kind of "power" we want. Your Macron, at its worst, was better than that Deer's best.



I've had "personal" experience with one of those!


If every "deer" died off yesterday, it would be too soon.

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Nice PSU, especially for its time. I think the little caps will be okay. It makes me sad that Macron seized power supply production. Or at least that's the conclusion that I've come to. The newest one I have was made in May, 2011. And looking on their site, I can't find anything about PSU's since they redid their site about a year ago. Every single one I've come across, I've saved it with new caps. I've come across 8 so far. 7 have been fully recapped and one is in the "waiting" bin. That's the shame, is most of them are pretty old, and literally the only downside to them is the caps they used. And that's enough to send over 90% to the bin I really love seeing other members on the forum saving them. I've always really liked Macron PSU's. I have one coming in the mail that I believe it's a 700W Macron! Recognize the "AMD INTEL" and "ATX12V TEST PASS" stickers?

I won the auction for $10.49 with $4.99 shipping. Even if it's not a Macron (doubt it) it's probably at least an "okay" 300-400 watt unit. I'm really excited to see it!

Um, no. That's not the kind of "power" we want.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Page 112: Inno Power (Macron) MPT-301 (MPT-9912p REV-A2)

....

I love the ghetto part!!

Can you please explain what is an auxiliary rail?

[domas]

Re: Page 112: Inno Power (Macron) MPT-301 (MPT-9912p REV-A2)

I love the ghetto part!!

Can you please explain what is an auxiliary rail?

I will have a guess and say that aux rail is an extra taken from 5vSB transformer used for feeding PWM chip and/or duty cycle transistor circuit

Am I correct?

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I have one coming in the mail that I believe it's a 700W Macron! Recognize the "AMD INTEL" and "ATX12V TEST PASS" stickers?

Yup, that should be a Macron with those stickers. I don't know anyone else that uses them. Hopefully the wattages on the label were done by Macron too. Otherwise, they may not be so legit.

I won the auction for $10.49 with $4.99 shipping. Even if it's not a Macron (doubt it) it's probably at least an "okay" 300-400 watt unit. I'm really excited to see it!

Us too .
And that's still a good deal! If you are looking for brand new (and from major stores), all you can get for $15 is some Diablotek or Logysis crap . Thanks, but NO THANKS!

Can you please explain what is an auxiliary rail?

I will have a guess and say that aux rail is an extra taken from 5vSB transformer used for feeding PWM chip and/or duty cycle transistor circuit

Yes, what domas said. On a half-bridge PSU, the 5VSB has a second output tap on the secondary side. It normally produces about 10-16V (depending on how much you load the 5VSB). This is one example of how that rail is derived (top-right corner on picture) in this post:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...7&postcount=24
Usually, this rail is used by the 494 or 7500 PWM controller and two 945 or 1815 transistors that drive the middle transformer (i.e. the driver transformer for the BJTs on the primary side). However, once the main PS starts up, the 12V rail is the one that becomes used by the PWM controller and TX drive circuitry. Again, you can see that on the above picture.
NOTE: above circuit is for a CWT-320ATX PSU made by Channel Well. I still haven't drawn up a schematic for the 5VSB of the Macron. Need to crack it open on a sunny day .

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Definitely Macron. This is why I hate people on flea-bay. Of course as you can imagine, the description was "This PSU is in perfect working condition, pulled from working computer, with no refund and absolutely no return!" Uh huh...I plugged it into the wall just with a paperclip to turn it on and it powered up fine with a HORRENDOUS whining sound. Can anyone guess why? He's lucky I was going to recap it anyways....I did the other bidder a favor by outbidding them. It's hardly better than the Macron you posted momaka. However it is a dual layer PCB, has huge 1200uF input caps, 3 MOV's, dual 16A schottky instead of ultra fasts, and dual 40A schottky for the 5V. I love all the 12.5mm cap slots though! Look at the capacitances they used. A 6,800uF cap and 2,200uF on the 3.3V Single 4,700uF on the 12V, and two 4,700uF on the 5V. Unfortunately no coils for the 12V. But since this is a good design, I think a 4,700uF 16V Panasonic FR will do on the 12V. I'll also upgrade the 12V rectifiers to two 30A schottky. Then, it will be one solid PSU! It has two fans and they're both Superred ball bearing. Also worth noting is, the manufacture date on the chassis was January, 2008. But, look at the dates on the transformers and fans! Man, talk about new old stock...Must have got a surplus. They also gave it a 2 year warranty. Pretty brave if you ask me considering the old and shitty caps they decided to use.

On a half-bridge PSU, the 5VSB has a second output tap on the secondary side. It normally produces about 10-16V (depending on how much you load the 5VSB).

This must be why they decided to use a 25V cap.

[c_hegge]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

^
I bought an MPT-4012 on fleabay once, and found exactly the same thing. It was described as being "tested and working" (maybe with a paperclip?). As soon as I got it out of the box, I could easily see that it had bad caps.

EDIT: here it is - https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...postcount=1655

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Nice. GoldLink caps are such trash. Even the pre-Teapo Luxon outlived them. I'd put GL down there with FUhjyyu/Sacon in terms of quality.

[lti]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

That doesn't look like a 700W PSU. It looks more like an updated version of the MPT-401.

Edit: Now I see that the current ratings on the label exceed the ratings of the rectifiers.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

What switching transistors does it use?