Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

[smorg]

Hi there, thanks for the great advice in these forums. I'm hoping to find a bit of specific advice on a Noma-branded Xantrex Powersource 1800 battery backup.
It's an old unit, with maybe 10yrs service as a sump pump backup, so the batteries inside are not holding a charge anymore, but it does still supply non-sine AC power when connected with booster cables to a running automobile's red battery terminal and engine block.
It is rated 1800W continuous and 3600W peak, but it is cutting out with an overload error (E03) with even just a 900W space heater or 1/2hp water jet pump plugged in by itself.
None of the components on the circuit board seem to show any signs of physical damage or burn marks, and all eight 30amp fuses look ok.
It might possibly have received a shock when a tree in the backyard was hit by lightning while it was in the basement, unsure on that.
Here are a few pics of the setup and circuit board.
There are reports online of this Powersource unit having transformer problems.
Can these components be DIY repaired or otherwise jury rigged for a quick fix?
I only have a basic digital multimeter for testing, and am learning as I go what can be tested for what.
Thanks for any advice that will get this unit running strongly again, it'd be great if it could power the oil furnace too!

[smorg]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

Any thoughts, please? Thank you!

[stj]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

could be dry caps.

i would replace all the small ones wih panasonic FR,
i wouldnt just replace the large ones because they are expensive - i would desolder and test them with an esr & capacitance meter.

[smorg]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

Hi stj, thanks for your idea! Is this testable somehow without buying the new parts in advance?
-
Update: Have been using the unit as described to run a small 2.5 amp jigsaw, and other small electronics (charging the laptop, phone, etc.), but any larger loads cause the overload error.
Thanks for your advice, any other thoughts out there?

[Behemot]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

With ESR/capacitance meter.

You may get any of low-ESR caps, Chemi-Con, Rubycon, Nichicon. Panasonic is usually overpriced, NCC is among the cheaper ones.

Running any motor on non-sinewave source is just wrong.

[smorg]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

Thanks for the tips on caps brands.
I understand that non-sine AC is hard on motors, but we're just looking for temporary backup for our home's main systems like water, heat, etc. in case of an outage.

[fzabkar]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

What is the battery voltage when the 900W load is connected? Measure the voltage at the battery and at the Xantrex unit.

PowerSource 1800 Owner’s Guide:

E03

Overload shutdown while supplying backup power. The AC product(s)
connected are consuming more than PowerSource 1800’s power rating. Use products with a total power consumption within PowerSource 1800’s continuous power rating of 1440 W.


The AC products connected have a surge power that exceeds
PowerSource 1800 surge capability. Use products with a total starting surge power within PowerSource 1800’s capability of 2880 W.


One or more of the connected products are damaged. Have the damaged product serviced by a qualified technician.

[Behemot]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

Thanks for the tips on caps brands.
I understand that non-sine AC is hard on motors, but we're just looking for temporary backup for our home's main systems like water, heat, etc. in case of an outage.

It's hard on both systems, UPS generaly don't like inductive load unless they are somewhat built for that. It may very well have killed it. But yeah, what's the state of the batt?

[smorg]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

Hi thanks for the replies!
With the booster cables attached and the car running the battery reads 13.5V.
Once disconnected, it drops to 0.1.
As soon as the 900W is connected there is an overload error.
I'll have to check again to see if there is a visible voltage drop before the unit shuts off.
Thanks!

[Behemot]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

If I understand it correctly, the battery reads 0.1 V? I guess it is completelly dead. Seems like some cell went bad and now there is discontinuity so it reads as 0.

[budm]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

'I'm hoping to find a bit of specific advice on a Noma-branded Xantrex Powersource 1800 battery backup.
It's an old unit, with maybe 10yrs service as a sump pump backup, so the batteries inside are not holding a charge anymore' So the batteries (3) are 10 years old?

[jojo69]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

get those dead batteries out of it and recycle them down at the port

I believe that the poor contacts and small diameter wires you are connecting to your 12VDC source are insufficient for your load. You need some heavy cabling for this, heavy and short as possible with solid contacts

For a 900W load you would be pulling 75A at 12V f the inverter were 100% efficient, which it is not. Probably need closer to 100A...your toy jumper cables just aren't going to do that mate. And that is assuming that your vehicle alternator can make that, which I doubt.

[smorg]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

Hi Thanks for your messages.
Yes, the batteries seem to be dead, understandable since they are 10 years old.
Yesterday, tried plugging in the 900W heater with voltmeter attached and watched it drop from 13.5 to about 10.3 before overload cutoff.
Today, tried it again (in light rain) and -Surprise!- the heater ran without overloading the box. Didn't get the volt reading though - will try again later.
Thanks again.

[jojo69]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

recommend you stop playing like this, you risk overloading your vehicle alternator or melting those little jumpers

this inverter requires a serious source of 12V for large loads

I think the inverter is fine, you need to invest in a way to feed it.

[smorg]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

Tried retesting the 900w heater, dropped from 13.7 volts to 10.7 then cut out.
Checked the 10yr old batteries after an hour on the car and they measured 5.5 volts.
Thanks!

[fzabkar]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

The Owner's Guide specifies a "low battery shutdown" voltage of 10.5 V (nominal).

[smorg]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

The Owner's Guide specifies a "low battery shutdown" voltage of 10.5 V (nominal).

That is interesting. Seems to indicate that the unit is operating normally then?
Not sure how to reconcile that with it's claims of handling 1800W continuous.
The built in terminal cables don't seem that much more substantial than my booster cables (but much shorter obviously).
Perhaps that's the limiting factor?
Thank you all, for your input!

[budm]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

Continuous rating is only 1440 W per user manual.
'Not sure how to reconcile that with it's claims of handling 1800W continuous.' Marketing error/ploy?

[jojo69]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

Marketing error/ploy?

or as Dave Jones over at EEVBlog calls it "marketing wank"

Yes OP, the length of the wires is very much a factor when trying to move very high currents like this, as is the contact area of the actual connections.

The good news is that your inverter is very probably just fine, you just need to build a solid, dedicated battery bank to power it.

[budm]

Re: Xantrex Powersouce 1800 Overloading (Error E03)

If you look at the spec sheet:
Internal battery capacity 51 amp-hours (3 x 17 amp-hour batteries)
Internal battery voltage 12 VDC (nominal)
It uses three 12V batteries rated at 17AH each for total of 51AH (connected in parallel).
So per spec sheet it can continuously put out 120V @12A = 1440 Watts.
So we have 12VDC to power the inverter circuit to create 1440W of power, for the sake of calculation we make it 100% conversion efficiency (which cannot be) that means the current draw from the batteries 120A! (12V x 120A = 1440 WATTS). Can it actually do that?
I do not see run time rating at full load.
It shows Microwave 920W for 12 minutes.