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Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

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    Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

    Hoping someone who recapped these already can give some data on this.

    Got a Friend's Enermax Liberty 400 Watt ELT400AWT which has two blown capacitors and is full of CTC & CEC.

    Blown capacitors are:
    C17 - 2200uF 16v on 12v Rail
    C14 - 1000uF 10v on 5vSB.

    The rest test OK but the 3300uF parts aren't as close to their rated value than the other ones are... Anyway, I decided to replace the lot, since they're a bit lame and I already pulled them all for testing anyway, and the PSU is some several years old.

    I found that I should be able to cram 12.5mm diameter parts in for C18 and C19 (a little up off the board), as long as I drop C21 down to 6.3v to get a 10mm diameter, then I don't need to try to find any 3300uF in 10mm diameter.

    My current selection is thus:
    Code:
    Ref	Value	Voltage	Size	Brand	Series	Code	ESR	Capacity	Rail	Manf. Code	ESR		RCR
    C13	1500uF	10v	10x25mm	CTC	LFFM	6046	0.02 Ohm	1420uF	5vSB	EEUFM1A152L	0.018 Ohm	2470mA
    C14	1000uF	10v	8x19mm	CTC	LFKM	6046	7.4 Ohm	50uF	5vSB 	EEUFM1A102L	0.03 Ohm	1560mA
    C16	470uF	25v	8x19mm	CEC	PCE-TUR	06-02	0.03 Ohm	405uF	-12v	EEUFM1E471L	0.03 Ohm	1560mA
    C17	2200uF	16v	10x25mm	CTC	LFKM	6046	2.2 Ohm	206uF	+12v	EEUFK1C222L	0.025 Ohm	2140mA
    C18	3300uF	16v	10x34mm	CTC	LFFM	6046	0.01 Ohm	2687uF	+12v	EEUFR1C332L	0.013 Ohm	3630mA
    C19	3300uF	10v	10x34mm	CTC	LFFM	6046	0.01 Ohm	2821uF	+5v	EEUFM1A332	0.015 Ohm	3190mA
    C20	2200uF	10v	10x25mm	CTC	LFKM	6046	0.02 Ohm	2210uF	+5v	EEUFR1A222L	0.018 Ohm	2470mA
    C21	3300uF	10v	10x34mm	CTC	LFFM	6046	0.01 Ohm	2838uF	3.3v	EEUFR0J332L	0.018 Ohm	2470mA
    C22	2200uF	10v	10x25mm	CTC	LFKM	6046	0.01 Ohm	2199uF	3.3v	EEUFR1A222L	0.018 Ohm	2470mA
    These should all be suitable, right? I picked whichever had the highest RCR (overkill?) and ESR that was as close as possible to what I measured on the old ones.
    Unless anyone has used these already and knows otherwise, I'll get them.
    Can't compare anything with CEC\CTC datasheets as they don't seem to exist. Nobody seems to have heard of LFFM or LFKM. There was some reference to KM series that seemed to come from Rifeking (Who seemed to be associated with CTC) but those are GP and have low RCR which doesn't make sense.
    Only some CEC PCE-TUx datasheets exist which don't help since they are just the small (<22uF) GP capacitors that I'll be replacing with FC or PW.
    "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
    -David VanHorn

    #2
    Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

    fill it with FR & FK - no problem.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

      Originally posted by stj View Post
      fill it with FR & FK - no problem.
      Is there something wrong with using FM here?
      "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
      -David VanHorn

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

        they cost more.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

          Over here from RS-Components, not always.
          eg: EEUFM1A152L $0.956, EEUFK1A152S $1.478 plus it's too big, and has lower RCR. (1400mA vs 2470mA)
          http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/products/5261137/
          http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/alumin...itors/0571482/
          "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
          -David VanHorn

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

            Originally posted by Agent24 View Post
            Is there something wrong with using FM here?
            Too low impedance can be a problem too.
            The FM is more like a replacement for NCC KZG...

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

              Originally posted by Agent24 View Post
              Over here from RS-Components, not always.
              eg: EEUFM1A152L $0.956, EEUFK1A152S $1.478 plus it's too big, and has lower RCR. (1400mA vs 2470mA)
              http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/products/5261137/
              http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/alumin...itors/0571482/
              i was not refering to FK - those cost the most.

              i meant FR are cheaper than FM

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                Originally posted by Stefan Payne View Post
                Too low impedance can be a problem too.
                The FM is more like a replacement for NCC KZG...
                I know, but the originals which are still good measure pretty low too, which is why I did not see an issue there. Unless I missed something?
                "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                -David VanHorn

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                  I have D10 3300 uF both 6.3 and 16V caps, why do you constantly act as it does not exist and buy overpriced panasonic? Often with too low ESR for old ATX PSU?
                  Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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                    #10
                    Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                    sorry for hijacking the thread but i have the 500w version of this psu. it seems to use a rubycon ce cap for the primary input side and some obscure jp ce-tur caps (all) on the secondary output side.

                    i noticed u seem to have a "pce-tur" cap listed? im guessing its the same as mine? may i ask where did u get the datasheet from and are the oems for those jp ce-tur caps cec and ctc? i cant seem to find any information around the web for those obscure jp ce-tur caps.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                      Originally posted by Behemot View Post
                      I have D10 3300 uF both 6.3 and 16V caps, why do you constantly act as it does not exist and buy overpriced panasonic? Often with too low ESR for old ATX PSU?
                      You might have them, but nobody in NZ with overnight shipping does, so what else am I going to buy?
                      I only need these kinds of capacitors rarely anyway, so price is not a big deal.

                      As for ESR, I don't get the "Too low" statements. I know you shouldn't use capacitors which are too low, but in this case - and I'm not trying to be perverse, I just don't get it. Take for example an FM with 0.018 ESR compared to one of the CTC LFKM\LFFM which measured 0.01 Ohm.. what's the problem? Surely the ESR is very closely matched there?

                      Of course, I am only going by what I measured and what I think makes sense, but am not sure as CTC has no data-sheets, which is what I would normally look at.


                      Out of interest, what stock do you have, what are your prices, and how much would it cost for shipping to NZ?
                      "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                      -David VanHorn

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                        Originally posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
                        sorry for hijacking the thread but i have the 500w version of this psu. it seems to use a rubycon ce cap for the primary input side and some obscure jp ce-tur caps (all) on the secondary output side.

                        i noticed u seem to have a "pce-tur" cap listed? im guessing its the same as mine? may i ask where did u get the datasheet from and are the oems for those jp ce-tur caps cec and ctc? i cant seem to find any information around the web for those obscure jp ce-tur caps.
                        I found a few of the PCE-TU series capacitors datasheets on Web archive once, and uploaded to my website which has since gone offline (shitty webhost). Most datasheets are at http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/ which has more than mine did anyway.

                        Although I did not see the PCE-TU series there. I have uploaded the ones I have here. AFAIK it's not complete though, some series are missing, but they're all I was ever able to find.
                        Attached Files
                        "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                        -David VanHorn

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                          Originally posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
                          sorry for hijacking the thread but i have the 500w version of this psu. it seems to use a rubycon ce cap for the primary input side and some obscure jp ce-tur caps (all) on the secondary output side.

                          i noticed u seem to have a "pce-tur" cap listed? im guessing its the same as mine? may i ask where did u get the datasheet from and are the oems for those jp ce-tur caps cec and ctc? i cant seem to find any information around the web for those obscure jp ce-tur caps.
                          CE-TUR caps are CEC International holdings limited (or something like that) TUR series.
                          Originally posted by Agent24 View Post
                          Out of interest, what stock do you have, what are your prices, and how much would it cost for shipping to NZ?
                          Do you really need it over night? And don't you recap PSUs all the time sou it would only make sense to buy some on stock?

                          You can see the stock on my website. Shipping depends on weight but it goes from aprox. 9 NZD. If you have cheap shipping from Australia, I'll be shiping some caps there soon so you can do group-buy and have it re-shipped.
                          Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                          Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                          Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                            Originally posted by Behemot View Post
                            Do you really need it over night? And don't you recap PSUs all the time sou it would only make sense to buy some on stock?
                            Not normally that fast, no. But in this case the idea was to have it running by the weekend.
                            Actually it's usually other things rather than PC PSUs, so no, I don't normally need much in stock of these sizes.
                            Originally posted by Behemot View Post
                            You can see the stock on my website. Shipping depends on weight but it goes from aprox. 9 NZD. If you have cheap shipping from Australia, I'll be shiping some caps there soon so you can do group-buy and have it re-shipped.
                            Thanks, I'll look into that and see.

                            Now I'm starting to wonder if you're right about the FM etc being too low...
                            What ChaosLegionnaire just said about his reminded me of something, and made me check my own ELT400AWT (the one with the strange clicking noise I have not used for a long time).
                            Turns out it uses CE-TUL and CE-TUR instead of CTC LFFM and LFKM, respectively.
                            The datasheets don't have the dimensions (even for other values) I measured though, but assuming the CE-TUx and LFxM are equivalent, they do show overall higher ESR than Panasonic FM, but still I measured them as less (and yes, I waited for them to cool down after desoldering).
                            Also, CE-TUR are supposed to be GP, yet they used them on the PSU outputs. That's why they're so tall?

                            Maybe I do need to go and rework my capacitor list. Argh...
                            Though I think what I really need to do is work on building a load tester!
                            Last edited by Agent24; 09-01-2015, 04:30 PM.
                            "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                            -David VanHorn

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                              i wouldnt worry about it.
                              if the esr is too low the psu may think there is a short-circuit or overload when it first starts and the caps charge.
                              if it starts and runs then your fine.

                              btw, i have never personally managed to make that happen but it happened with an experiment to use poly's on a website run by one of the guys here.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                                FM are usually fine. They are just a bit higher ESR than the likes of NCC KZG or Nich HM. I wouldn't suggest using FJ or FL, though.

                                I find it hilarious when people recommend FR but say FM is too low ESR. They are exactly the same when comparing similar can sizes. The only difference is that FR has a few sizes available that FM doesn't.

                                Originally posted by Agent24 View Post
                                You might have them, but nobody in NZ with overnight shipping does, so what else am I going to buy?
                                I only need these kinds of capacitors rarely anyway, so price is not a big deal.
                                And that's pretty much exactly how it goes for me. I rarely recap anything these days, but when I do, I can't wait a month for caps from Europe. So for that reason (and the fact that I trust Panny more than NCC), I get pretty much everything except for 3300uF 16V in 10mm diameter from RS or element14.
                                Last edited by c_hegge; 09-02-2015, 12:00 AM.
                                I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

                                No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

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                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                                  Hey guys I cant quite make a new thread yet. I need to ask a question about a Enermax liberty 500w. I have ordered all the FR caps I need to replace it however this supply suffers from the conductive glue problem. What do you guys do with this conductive glue. How do you remove it? What solvent? Leave it? One of the chokes has had this glue carbonize and is conductive. I have removed all the visible glue however with a continuity check I get anywhere from 3M to 20M ohms. Cleaning with alcohol helps but not so much. The other spots of glue in the PSU are not carbonized yet.

                                  I get off on fixing things but I am wondering if its worth fixing this thing since its about 20 bucks in caps so far.

                                  What glue do you replace this conductive glue with. I hear RTV but what kind of RTV is suitable? What about getting some wire varnish and just rebrushing the choke to seal it up?

                                  I am hoping this is all thats wrong with this supply have not checked any other parts except caps.

                                  Thanks
                                  William

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                                    i just scrape it off with a small screwdriver
                                    no need to replace it.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                                      You only need the glue for shipping and transport. If you don't plan on doin that, you don't need that.

                                      But remember that the unit isn't great for modern PC and should only be used for components of the time.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Enermax Liberty PSUs - are Panasonic FM\FR\FK good?

                                        that was unclear.
                                        what Stephan meant is it's designed for systems that run the cpu from the 5v line - not modern boards with a seperate 12v socket near the cpu.

                                        having sead that, i prefer 5v based psu's for general test supplies - they are also good if your into arcade machine collecting.

                                        Comment

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