PSU problems(More inside)

[oke139]

Alright so i was using my PSU for a while with an lower power card(R5670) and ive switched to gtx 260, which obviously takes more juice. From the start i've had a problem that my PC would only start when it had cooled for like 3-4hours. I consider my current PSU good(Fortron Epsilon 80plus 500W) and it is above GTX 260 limits, ive seen guys running gtx 470,480 off it. So recently i opened my PSU to see where the problem is, i saw quite a few capacitors that were leaking(On pictures). So i ordered a few replacement caps for them. Now i have quite a few questions about it. The capacitors were 6.3V , 2200uF btw.
Could those small capacitors cause the problem(Like 3 failed ones)? Also recently when i started without my graphics card i saw that sometimes the power fluctuates a bit and then PC shuts off. When its running it runs good and with very healthy voltages. My father is licensed electrician so replacing the caps won't be a problem. It's just that he usually works with way higher voltages and different equipment(Workbenches in factories n stuff like that). Are there any special stuff you should know about replacing caps etc?
Sorry for all the grammar mistakes, il try to fix them by morning
Also the leaking capacitors were all the same type, all other stuff seemed fine. And i ordered proper replacement, no need to worry about that, we have something similiar to radioshack in our country.

[mariushm]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

The Fortron Epsilon 500w is quite capable and should have no problems powering that video card.
You just got unlucky with the capacitor selection in the power supply... must replace both the Capxon and those with the GF label (known bad series)

Wouldn't hurt replacing those capacitors by the heatsinks with higher hours @ 105c rated caps.

Stores like Radioshack don't do high quality capacitors, only general purpose ones which are not good enough for a power supply.

Since you're in Estonia, try http://ee.farnell.com/capacitors - I'm using them and their UK version of the website and it works great for me.

Stick to quality brands like Nichicon (HM/HN/HZ), United Chemi Con, Rubycon (ZL*), Panasonic (FM/FR/ others) - if you say exactly what's written on those capacitors maybe we can give suggestions.

[c_hegge]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Replace them with http://ee.farnell.com/nichicon/uhm0j...-3v/dp/1823798 . Spec-wise, they are overkill, but they are they only reliable 2200uF capacitor in 8mm diameter.

Replace all capxons, bulging or not, unless you want to take your power supply apart again in the near future.

[mariushm]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Well, that's not gonna work, or at least it won't be cheap as Farnell only has them in the US warehouse and they'll ask for 25 euro (~40$) just to move them to Europe for him.

Pretty much what he can get without spending a ton of money is 1500uF 6.3v Panasonic FR but it's probably too small capacity to be enough: http://ee.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...0uf/dp/1800608

Then again, 3.3v is not used that much nowadays and the FR has very good specs.

[Scenic]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Also, the tiny cap in the first pic to the left of the transformer ALWAYS goes bad. It's the startup cap from what I can tell. 25V 100uF

As for the 6.3V 2200uF.. with a bit of ingenuity it is possible to shove a 10mm in there, but only one. You also have to be a bit careful when putting the cover back on then (to not scratch or dent the cap)

Fortrons are generally good PSUs, but their constant crapcap selection in just about any halfway recent model kills them every single time..

[oke139]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Wow so much response in so little time, thanks a lot . I was considering replacing with quality caps too, but i didn't know which ones are good and where could i get them. Anyway im going to replace those 6.3s with the ones i got currently. After replacing im going to look for replacement for those and the GF's, also gonna replace the startup one i think.
Also at the farnell website which caps should i look for? I notice theres bunch of caps made of different material.
Oh and the new caps are on pics. Thanks again
E: I was also considering to buy some broken quality PSU's(Like Antec etc) and salvage capacitors off them. If those caps turn out to be bad i could replace them with what i have and resell it for moneyz, aint got much to lose, those quality psus go for like 2-5€.

[mockingbird]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Most likely not.

I don't know which CapXon you show as bloated there, but they look like 10x30. The Samwha caps in the picture are General Purpose caps that are only 10x20 with a ripple rating of only 778.

If you're going to place an order with Farnell (Here we call them Newark, other times, they're called "Element14"), you should take a good look at the Panasonic "FK" series through hole capacitors (Prefixed with EEU - the U denotes the through hole variant and not the SMDs) which you will most likely need in your repair.

I've done 2 FSP PSUs now, and I found that the only thing that could match the custom size 10x30 parts were the Panasonic FK (Normally, caps with the same ratings as the original Teapos or OST are 12.5mm - FK are miniaturized in width and FR are miniaturized in height).

In my opinion, you should do a complete re-cap of the whole PSU.

Can you post more pics?

Take those wires out of the way and post all the caps.

[c_hegge]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

E: I was also considering to buy some broken quality PSU's(Like Antec etc) and salvage capacitors off them. If those caps turn out to be bad i could replace them with what i have and resell it for moneyz, aint got much to lose, those quality psus go for like 2-5€.

Antec almost never use good caps. In the Smartpower and early truepowers, they used Fuhjyyu, the worst brand of cap known to PSU-kind. As a result, they had 100% failure rates after about 3 years.

[oke139]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Lol, starting to think noone uses good ones... Anyway i opened the PSU up again, looked for all the bad caps and yeah the only ones that are bulging & leaking are the 6.3V ones, GF ones are fine. And yup, Mockingbird, you were right. The ones in my PSU are longer and slimmer, the ones i have are shorter and fatter. I don't think i can use those -.-. Its really hard to find good caps in my country, the website you guys provided wants shit loads for shipping and transport. Oh and i can't move those wires out of the way, their "melted" onto the motherboard like capacitors and the sleeving stops them from moving.

E: Also i found this website: https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~ee_et/elfa...89&pageSize=25, thers Panasonic and all the good stuff there. But their all 10mm diameters...
E2: Narrowed it down to this btw: https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~ee_et/elfa...0C&pageSize=25 . Now my question is can i put them under a tilt and put some glue or something to stop them from moving? Also added the pic if its any good.

[oke139]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Guys, i found a couple of OST caps(around 8), 6.3V 3300uF (105C) on an old motherboard. They all look fine and they seem to match the dimensions. Can i use those although their rated 3300uF whilst current ones are 2200uF?

[tom66]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Guys, i found a couple of OST caps(around 8), 6.3V 3300uF (105C) on an old motherboard. They all look fine and they seem to match the dimensions. Can i use those although their rated 3300uF whilst current ones are 2200uF?

OST are among the worst, it might get it going but no guarantees it will last!

[mariushm]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Yeah oke, the problem is that there's very few 8 mm wide capacitors with that capacity value that are also good. You'll find lots at 10mm or 12.5 mm wide, but few at 8mm.

That farnell website has decent shipping fees, for example it costs me about 3$ to ship from UK here, but if they don't have them in the UK warehouse, they charge you a one time 25 euro fee for the whole package. It works ok if you want a lot of stuff but doesn't work in your case.

When it comes to picking good capacitors, you need ones that are listed there with high ripple value and as low impedance as possible.

What I can suggest is to look on the back of the power supply and see if these three capacitors are interconnected, to work as a single 6600 uF capacitor.
If so, you can replace the 3 x 2200 with 2 x 3300uF and keep the same capacity overall, and you will have an easier time fitting 2 10x## or 2 12.5x## capacitors there.

Here's some suggestions for 3300uF capacitors that will work great there:

http://ro.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...0uf/dp/1800628
http://ro.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/1219458
http://ro.farnell.com/rubycon/10zl33...10v/dp/1144687
http://ro.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/1219458
http://ro.farnell.com/nichicon/uhe0j...-3v/dp/1823623
http://ro.farnell.com/united-chemi-c...0uf/dp/1692337
http://ro.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...0uf/dp/1744878

Some are rated for 10v - it's ok, it's important just to be higher or equal with 6.3v

Replace ro. in front with ee. to get the Estonian version of the site. These should all be in stock in Europe so it won't ask for 25 euro to ship them.

[oke139]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

So i can go higher voltage & higher capacitance like 10V and 3300uF? Yeah it would be awesome if i could put just two 3300uF's. Ima check right away. Also if i use like 10V and 3300uF ones, it wont put so much strain under them , making them last longer, correct?
Also are Suncon caps any good? I found a few suncons 3300uF 6.3VDC in a local warehouse.
E: Oeh its pain in the butt to get to underside of it... Gonna do that tommorow.

[mariushm]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

If I remember correctly, Suncon is the new name for the factory that used to make Sanyo capacitors, which were good stuff.
So they should be good, BUT it all depends on the series because there are low esr series and there are general purpose series. Again, you can't just use any series of capacitors, you must put there capacitors that have high ripple value and low esr.

Here's the Suncon series:

You want from page 2, the series that say Low ESR, basically the W* ones.

You really have to check first if those capacitors are tied together because if they're not, we're just wasting time with this option.

If they are together, yes, you can go for 3300uF of any voltage higher than 6.3 or equal.

If Farnell is not an option and you can't find something good locally, there's also rs components : http://ee.rsdelivers.com/catalogue/c...nium/7464.aspx

Of course, there's this website that sells good capacitors, but as they're shipped from US shipping is a bit high and it will take a while to reach you.


In the worst case scenario, if you have Paypal, I guess I could mail you a few 3300uF capacitors - I usually buy 50 at a time of various voltage ratings so I should still have some around.

Yes, looking through the stuff I have here, there's some Nichicon HZ 3300uF 6.3v which are awesome specs wise, I see some 3300uF 6.3v Nichicon HM and I still have 3300uF 16v panasonic FM, United Chemi Con KZE

It would cost you about 1$ each plus about 2$ for postage and envelope and from here.

[oke139]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

Yeah. Thats what was in description: Max ripple is 2.36A.
Increased temperature range
Low ESR
Long life
For power supply units.

So theres noway i can use the ones i bought or the ones on the motherboard for like a month or two?

[mariushm]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

You can.

The ones you bought (the Samwha) are OK (good series on paper ) but diameter is large. Samwha I saw a lot in Samsung monitors and they don't seem to be very reliable (lots of swollen tops, out of specs), but it could be because in monitors they're in a very small space with minimal cooling - in a power supply with the fan blowing on them they may last a long time.

The ones on the motherboards are good series (good in the sense that they're low esr high ripple) but you have no way of knowing how good they still are.
OST capacitors degrade in quality in time but they don't usually inflate their tops or leak, so you have no way of telling visually telling how good they still work. Without an expensive ESR meter, you really don't know.

[mockingbird]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

The ones you bought (the Samwha) are OK (good series on paper ) but diameter is large.

Yeah. Thats what was in description: Max ripple is 2.36A.

What you have there in the picture - Samwha RD - are NOT any of those things... RD is a general purpose cap, if yo don't believe me, look at the datasheet for yourself.

[mariushm]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

You're right, I apologize oke... I got them mixed up with a RD series from another manufacturer. So those Samwha are not recommended to use them in the power supply.

[oke139]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

No problem . Anyway i finally got that baby unscrewed and turned around. So according to the pics are the caps connected to each other or do they run seperately(Can i use two bigger caps instead?

[mariushm]

Re: PSU problems(More inside)

I can't tell from the pictures... they're too blurry and dark.

If they're in parallel to get the large capacity, the + wires of each capacitor should be in contact, same with the - wires.
So if you have a multimeter, switch it to continuity mode, which makes the multimeter beep when you touch the needles of the meter or you touch the ends of an uninterrupted wire. If you don't have continuity mode, switch it to measure resistance. Place one a needle on the + sign of a capacitor and the other on the other capacitor's + sign and you will get a beep or resistance measurement if they're connected.

If you don't have a multimeter... it's a bit harder. Take an AA battery, a led or a light bulb , two wires... connect a wire to the led and with the other wire put it on the + sign of a capacitor and the led on the + of the other capacitors

[ - ] battery [ + ] --------- [+ C1 ] ----- trace on pcb ---- [+ C2 ] ---- led +
|
-----------------------------------------------------------------------led -

If the + signs of the capacitors are not connected together, the led won't light up.

In the worst case, take a sheet of paper and a pencil and draw the traces on the board between the points where the capacitors are soldered.