Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

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  • zombie.guitarist
    Member
    • Jun 2023
    • 28
    • USA

    #1

    Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

    Hey all! I have this midi controller called a "Synthaxe" which is pretty rare. It was made around 1986 and the company only made about 100. I was told less than 25 still work today. Theres a guitar player I love that is known for using this and to play his material you basically need one of them because it does things no other midi-guitar controller can do. So since I got it, ive been trying to learn about it so I can extend its live as long as possible.

    The one that I bought has 2 issues. One I'll cover another time but I think this one is easier and simpler to fix.

    This is the step pedal. The way that it works is, it allows you to scroll thru your saved banks by foot, without having to push a button on the console.

    Theres a - and + button on the console and that does work.

    The issue is, when using the foot pedal, the - direction works, but the + direction doesnt. It doesn't move forward and the + light gets stuck. I swapped the pedals and I got the same issue so it wasn't the physical switch, its on the board.

    I also don't have an actual schematic for the one I have, but I have one similar which I'll attach beacuse it may be of some help. So I made my own little one, so I know where everything is connected to. Its pretty rudimentary so, sorry about that.

    The way the unit works, is the floor unit has the power supply, and it supplies power to the controller, console, and this step pedal. For the step pedal, it takes 8V in, and transfers it to 5V which supplies all the chips. The 8V goes to the LEDs. All that stuff works fine. Also the output works fine because again, I can move the banks backwards, and I think it only transmits from one line.

    In my diagram I made using my multimeters continuity function, I've isolated the issue but I'm unsure where to go from here. I traced both + and - signals working fine to IC9, which is an HEF4013. On the output, Pin 1 goes high then low when - is pressed but pin 13 stays high when + is pressed. I replaced that chip and same issue. Notice how Pin 13's trace is tapped to go to IC4s VQ1000J Pin 10, so the LED stays high because that line doesnt go low. All the other pins are fine in that HEF4013, including Pin 11, which is the data line (goes high and low). So it must be Pin 10, which clears the signal. Thats controlled by IC7 74HC32. Replaced that and still the same issue.

    It was at this point where I traced everything and I saw that for IC7, Pin 6 doesn't clear, but Pin 1 does (Pin 4 of IC9). Both Pin 2 and 5 are tapped to IC6 4093 Pin 4, so thats not the issue. But they both come from IC1 pin 12 and 11.

    IC1 is a 6402. Pin 12 is what is needed for the - line clear, but Pin 11 goes to the + line clear. Is the 6402 actually whats bad? Theres a SIP resistor package that connects to Pin 5-12 (RBR8-1) and it seems to not be faulty, so all I can think of is that its the actual 6402 itself. I just don't know how to test to see if thats the issue aside from just buying another one and putting it in.



    TL;DR - One of the pedals doesn't work and I traced it back to the 6402, should I replace it?
    Attached Files
  • zombie.guitarist
    Member
    • Jun 2023
    • 28
    • USA

    #2
    Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

    Well it wasn't the 6402, so all that's left are the caps. Theres only 3 diodes, 13 caps, 1 resistor and 4 resistor arrays. Time to poke around.

    Comment

    • redwire
      Badcaps Legend
      • Dec 2010
      • 3900
      • Canada

      #3
      Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

      This doesn't have a microcontroller, it's somehow parallel loading the UART directly to spew out MIDI messages, is that right? Or is it proprietary serial data the pedal interface uses.

      I find pedals and jacks get hit with ESD so I would check all IC's connected there. It looks like the CD4093 would get nailed but you've replaced it.
      I look with a scope at the signals to see if they are properly swinging from 0V to 5V, a shorted/damaged gate or mosfet will leave oddball logic levels.
      Any troubles with IC5 shorted gate input like pin 10, 5, 3 would also affect the pedal latches/TX packet as the lines are shared.

      Comment

      • zombie.guitarist
        Member
        • Jun 2023
        • 28
        • USA

        #4
        Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

        Originally posted by redwire
        This doesn't have a microcontroller, it's somehow parallel loading the UART directly to spew out MIDI messages, is that right? Or is it proprietary serial data the pedal interface uses.

        I find pedals and jacks get hit with ESD so I would check all IC's connected there. It looks like the CD4093 would get nailed but you've replaced it.
        I look with a scope at the signals to see if they are properly swinging from 0V to 5V, a shorted/damaged gate or mosfet will leave oddball logic levels.
        Any troubles with IC5 shorted gate input like pin 10, 5, 3 would also affect the pedal latches/TX packet as the lines are shared.
        Thanks for the reply! I'm not entirely sure TBH about the midi messages. The foot-switch only moves forward and backwards within the saved banks in the console. That feature is also included as buttons ON the console that work fine, but I don't know what other data is being transmitted between the foot-switch and console.

        I think you may have mis-read what I wrote. Remember the handwritten crappy schematic that I did is the ACTUAL schematic to my unit (REV 3), the more professional one is the original concept (REV 1) that barely is the same, but it at least shows the input and output connections.

        In my schematic, the issue is pin 13 on the HEF4013 stays high after the "=" is pressed. I traced the working and not working signals to that chip with an oscilloscope as well. Pin 1 on the HEF4013 is the output for the "-" signal which works. Pin 13 stays high, and that line goes to VQ1000J which controls the LED lights, and when that pin stays high, so does the LED for "+" and it stays lit and doesn't clear until power is turned off and then back on. I then saw that pin 10 on the HEF4013 clears the signal thats controlled by the 7432, that I replaced and didnt work. Then THAT 7432 gets signals from the 6402, and I replaced THAT and that didn't work. Thats all the ICs that could control the "+" line at the point it stops working.

        Poking around with the continuity function to what all the caps are connected to (not included in my diagram). Out of the 13, 9 of them are ceramic 104's and one of them is connected to the cathode of the diode on the HEF4093 and also a resistor array thats connected to IC1 Pin 11, which was one of the things that controlled the "+" signal. In any case, I removed that cap and it seemed bad. The caps are a bit too small to read in my multimeter, but I pulled 2 out and they read the right capacity after fiddling with it, where as the one that was connected to the IC1 Pin 11 didn't seem to register or show any value, which after mapping out the caps, is the one I would suspect to be bad. So I ordered a bunch of caps and am gonna replace them all.

        In my diagram, I'm unsure what the purpose of the 4093 is. I know that Pin 2 gets the Tx signal from the 6402, and the output of that, pin 3, goes to the VQ1000J, which then goes to the output of the footswitch, which goes to the console. Again the "-" signal works and travels thru that line, its only the "+" that gets stuck high.

        Pin 11 on the 4093 is what helps control the "ready" LED, which lets the user know the unit is working properly.

        Apologies for the wall of text and possibly unimportant info! Im putting out everything I can in order to paint a clearer picture.

        Comment

        • CapLeaker
          Leaking Member
          • Dec 2014
          • 8043
          • Canada

          #5
          Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

          Maybe the vq1000j one of its mosfets is stuck on? What’s the state of the stock mosfets gate?

          Comment

          • zombie.guitarist
            Member
            • Jun 2023
            • 28
            • USA

            #6
            Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

            Originally posted by CapLeaker
            Maybe the vq1000j one of its mosfets is stuck on? What's the state of the stock mosfets gate?
            Apologize for my ignorance but do you mean whats the state of the STUCK mosfets gate? On my diagram, when the "+" pedal is pressed, pin 13 on the HEF4013 gets stuck high which is connected to the VQ1000Js gate (pin 10). The VQ1000Js drain (Pin 8) which is connected to the "+"s LED, which is stuck on, until I turn off and on the unit.

            Comment

            • CapLeaker
              Leaking Member
              • Dec 2014
              • 8043
              • Canada

              #7
              Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

              Given the schematic isn’t the best one to read on a small ipad, scrolling back and forth etc. The problem must be in a different section. If I just read what you wrote, it sounds to me that one of the logic gates is stuck on or high once activated and doesn’t go low again. A stuck mosfet should be permanent stuck. Which IC’s did you replace already? IC1, 7 and 9?

              Comment

              • redwire
                Badcaps Legend
                • Dec 2010
                • 3900
                • Canada

                #8
                Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                How it seems to work... a bit weird.

                It looks like either pedal press gets latched/debounced and held into the 4013 flip-flops. They later get reset by a special packet received by the UART from the main board.
                So they (4103) would hold or latch any pedal getting pressed, forever until the clear command comes in.

                As well, the pedal status and compared to previous status gets transmitted serially out of the 6402.
                It transmits a read of the pedals and compared to its previous state (IC7 74HC32), back. 4-bits of data. A state change for each pedal i.e. if the pedal was latched on and now it's off gets transmitted serially out of the 6402. It's saying "hey a pedal was pressed (or released), this is new".

                If pin 13 4013 Q output goes stuck after a pedal is pressed, it needs a reset command from the main controller you would see at D3.
                If the LED driver VQ1000J was shorted an LED would always stay on and possible jam the 4013 outputs that connect to the IC's gates.

                The schematic has a bunch of mistakes too. IC7 pin 12,13,11 seem to do nothing, the READY LED's are only setup to blink, IC6 pin 3/4, 10/11 not used. It's strange.

                Does it transmit serial data constantly?

                Comment

                • zombie.guitarist
                  Member
                  • Jun 2023
                  • 28
                  • USA

                  #9
                  Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                  Originally posted by CapLeaker
                  Given the schematic isn't the best one to read on a small ipad, scrolling back and forth etc. The problem must be in a different section. If I just read what you wrote, it sounds to me that one of the logic gates is stuck on or high once activated and doesn't go low again. A stuck mosfet should be permanent stuck. Which IC's did you replace already? IC1, 7 and 9?
                  Correct. Ive replaced IC1 which is a 6402, and IC7 (74HC32) and IC9 (HEF4013), all with identical ICs.

                  All the other ICs aren't associated with the pedal.

                  IC2 is a PX01000 crystal set at 500kHz, in order to get the 31.25 baud rate for midi data

                  IC3 is a 6N138 octocoupler, somehow connected to the input of whats being transmitted to the foot controller

                  and IC10 is an L4805 Voltage regulator to knock down the 8Vs coming in to 5Vs to feed the chips. But the 8V line is needed for the LEDs. All those things work.

                  Comment

                  • zombie.guitarist
                    Member
                    • Jun 2023
                    • 28
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                    Originally posted by redwire
                    How it seems to work... a bit weird.

                    It looks like either pedal press gets latched/debounced and held into the 4013 flip-flops. They later get reset by a special packet received by the UART from the main board.
                    So they (4103) would hold or latch any pedal getting pressed, forever until the clear command comes in.

                    As well, the pedal status and compared to previous status gets transmitted serially out of the 6402.
                    It transmits a read of the pedals and compared to its previous state (IC7 74HC32), back. 4-bits of data. A state change for each pedal i.e. if the pedal was latched on and now it's off gets transmitted serially out of the 6402. It's saying "hey a pedal was pressed (or released), this is new".

                    If pin 13 4013 Q output goes stuck after a pedal is pressed, it needs a reset command from the main controller you would see at D3.
                    If the LED driver VQ1000J was shorted an LED would always stay on and possible jam the 4013 outputs that connect to the IC's gates.

                    The schematic has a bunch of mistakes too. IC7 pin 12,13,11 seem to do nothing, the READY LED's are only setup to blink, IC6 pin 3/4, 10/11 not used. It's strange.

                    Does it transmit serial data constantly?
                    I think you're still looking at the wrong schematic. The one that looks photocopied is one I received but is the 1st revision. I have revision 3, so in order to map out whats going on, I had to make my own rough diagram to see where the chips were connected to. The issue is IC9s pin 13 gets stuck high and doesn't get reset. I replaced that IC, as well as IC7 (7432) and the 6402. But again I think the issue is a capacitor that's attached to that line that controls the "+" function. Once I get that, replace it and still have the same issue (hopefully not) i'll get more info.

                    IC1 is a 6402.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • redwire
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 3900
                      • Canada

                      #11
                      Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                      Sorry it's just there is no 6402 UART on your schematic and it's hard to follow so I went with the rev 1 that shows it.

                      Comment

                      • CapLeaker
                        Leaking Member
                        • Dec 2014
                        • 8043
                        • Canada

                        #12
                        Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                        Is that capacitor you are talking about shorted or open? Real small value caps don’t measure on a DMM in the capacitor function as it may be out of range. Same with real high capacitors or super caps.

                        Comment

                        • zombie.guitarist
                          Member
                          • Jun 2023
                          • 28
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                          Originally posted by redwire
                          Sorry it's just there is no 6402 UART on your schematic and it's hard to follow so I went with the rev 1 that shows it.
                          Yeah, sorry about that. It was just too big for me to put in the diagram and I didn't think that was going to be the issue. Thats why I just wrote "IC1 Pinx" when something was connected to it.

                          Comment

                          • zombie.guitarist
                            Member
                            • Jun 2023
                            • 28
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                            Originally posted by CapLeaker
                            Is that capacitor you are talking about shorted or open? Real small value caps don't measure on a DMM in the capacitor function as it may be out of range. Same with real high capacitors or super caps.
                            It wasn't reading anything, so I suppose open. I removed 3 to test. The problem is, the legs were too short to be inserted into the slots on the DMM, but after wiggling, I was able to read 2 of them at the right values. The one that didn't work, no matter how hard I tried wouldn't read at all. Since all the legs were about the same size, I concluded that it was reaching the pads but nothing was being read. I mean for $3 its a simple fix. The cap that was bad was connected to IC1's pin 11 thru a resistor network.

                            My assumption was, since IC9's pin 13 doesn't go low, the signal wasn't being cleared. Thats controlled by pin 10, which is connected to IC7 7432 Pin 6. The 2 input signals for that is a signal from IC6's Pin 4, and since that line is being shared by 2 inputs of the IC7, that must work. So the ONLY other thing that could be bad was IC7's pin 4, which is connected to the 6402s Pin 11. When I replaced the 6402 and still got the same issue, I started looking at the caps, saw that one was connected to that line and thats the one I couldn't get any reading out of.

                            Comment

                            • zombie.guitarist
                              Member
                              • Jun 2023
                              • 28
                              • USA

                              #15
                              Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                              Ok a bit of an update. I got my 104 caps in and first replaced the one I thought was faulty. I still got the same problem of the "+" light staying on, but now instead of staying on until I shut the unit off, it gets cleared when I press the "-" button.

                              I thought I'd be safe and replace a few more caps that were the same 104s. The only ones I didn't touch that I knew worked was the one for the voltage regulator, and the one for the crystal osc, which both work fine. So now I'm not sure where to go. Either the problem could be the 2 electrolytic caps. One is for the Volt Regulator but I dont know what C7's function is or what its attached to. Theres also 2 very small caps I dunno what they're used for, C12 and C13. I attached the caps I found and what they're attached to if I could find it. The only other thing, aside from 3 diodes and a resistor, is that it has a few resistor sip networks. 2 are 8 pin and don't need 5v but the other 2 are 9 and need 5v. I didn't expect these to be the problem since its not often resistors go bad. So I'm kinda at a crossroads here.



                              C1: Voltage Regulator (+: 5V / -: GND) 10v 100uf (as per data sheet)
                              C2: Voltage Regulator (8V / GND) 104 (as per data sheet)
                              C3*: RA2 (Pin 1/2/3 / GND) 104
                              C4*: IC5 6N138 (Pin 8 (5V) / Pin 5 (GND) - Connected to C11/C10/C3 GND) 104 (as per data sheet)
                              C5: PX0-1000 Crystal Osc (IC2 Pin 3 / GND) 104
                              C6*: D3 Cathode / RP1 Pin 7 (47K needs power? IC1 Pin 11) 104 !!!
                              C7: (+: 5V / -: GND) ?
                              C8*: (RP4 Pin 8 & RP3 Pin 8 / IC9 Pin 8 GND) 104
                              C9*: IC1 6402 (Pin 1 (5V) - Connected to C5 / GND) 104
                              C10*: IC6 4093 Pin 9 / GND 104
                              C11*: RP3 Pin 5 / GND 104
                              C12: RP1 Pin 3 / RP3 Pin 6 -> C11 -> RA2 Pin 9 ??
                              C13: D2 / GND 10n .01uf

                              Comment

                              • CapLeaker
                                Leaking Member
                                • Dec 2014
                                • 8043
                                • Canada

                                #16
                                Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                                If a resistor goes bad, they go 999999% of time higher in value or open.

                                Comment

                                • zombie.guitarist
                                  Member
                                  • Jun 2023
                                  • 28
                                  • USA

                                  #17
                                  Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                                  Originally posted by CapLeaker
                                  If a resistor goes bad, they go 999999% of time higher in value or open.
                                  Does this happen with a bussed resistor network?

                                  The resistor array that I think is attached to that trace is a 770-91-47. I
                                  haven't went back and checked what all those resistor networks are attached to.

                                  770 is the part, 9 is the # of pins, 1 is the schematic (Bussed) and 47 means
                                  47k. Pin 1 gets the Vcc and the other 8 pins are 47k, so I'm unsure if I can
                                  test that in circuit or remove it? Heres the data sheet:

                                  https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...d3658b4995.pdf


                                  I also want to add I ended up purchasing another console and footswitch pcb board which both work 100%, so now I'm not a big rush to fix these two, but I would still like to figure it out.

                                  Comment

                                  • CapLeaker
                                    Leaking Member
                                    • Dec 2014
                                    • 8043
                                    • Canada

                                    #18
                                    Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                                    Sure it can happen to a resistor network too. Gets even worse. A few times I had starter resistors go bad in a way, where the resistor was measuring o.k when cold, but as soon as current was drawn through the resistor, it changed its value and dropped the voltage to the PWM until it clunked out. Weird things do happen and don’t go by the old assumption that resistors never go bad.

                                    47k is quite a bit of resistance. It would take too much to put a draw on it and get the voltage to zero. It’s been a while to remember all on this thread, but knowing here are bunch of logic gates, those resistor networks may be used to pull up / and down the gates. If you got a gate that is stuck, this could be another reason why. Take that resistor network out and check it pin by pin.

                                    Comment

                                    • zombie.guitarist
                                      Member
                                      • Jun 2023
                                      • 28
                                      • USA

                                      #19
                                      Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                                      Originally posted by CapLeaker
                                      Sure it can happen to a resistor network too. Gets even worse. A few times I had starter resistors go bad in a way, where the resistor was measuring o.k when cold, but as soon as current was drawn through the resistor, it changed its value and dropped the voltage to the PWM until it clunked out. Weird things do happen and don’t go by the old assumption that resistors never go bad.

                                      47k is quite a bit of resistance. It would take too much to put a draw on it and get the voltage to zero. It’s been a while to remember all on this thread, but knowing here are bunch of logic gates, those resistor networks may be used to pull up / and down the gates. If you got a gate that is stuck, this could be another reason why. Take that resistor network out and check it pin by pin.
                                      Ok great, thanks for the tip! Just to recap, I replaced 3 chips that are connected to the issue (6402, 7432 and HEF4013) as well as all the 104 caps (which was 9 of the 13 caps on the board). Theres not much left to poke around haha.

                                      Comment

                                      • zombie.guitarist
                                        Member
                                        • Jun 2023
                                        • 28
                                        • USA

                                        #20
                                        Re: Synthaxe Midi Controller footswitch

                                        Update: I removed all the Resistor array/networks and they all tested good. But I also tested the voltage drop on the 3 diodes in circuit. They all tested correctly forward, but diode 1 and 2 give me a reading reverse, so that may be the issue.

                                        The problem is, since I don't have the proper schematic, I can't quite tell what part number diode they are. I'll have to post a picture of it in another part of this forum.

                                        Comment

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