Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

[r1ckjam35]

First things first; hello!

After a bit of searching around for people with a problem similar to mine, i found that this forum has the most consistently helpful community and resolved problems... congrats!

Enough of that. Ive been having some trouble with my Hanns-G HG281D monitor for almost the past year now. After being off for an extended period of time, and turned on, it struggles to work properly. The monitor first comes on, then turns black. This is repeated, with the black lasting significantly longer than the correct image. This cycle usually lasts for approx. 30 mins. During this time, the indicator light remains blue (this is the color it is during normal operation). After the image stabilizes, the monitor works fine until it is left off for an extended period of time.

The search feature (along with some light reading) has led me to believe this is a cap issue. These threads in particular:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17855
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11329

Ive been waiting for it to die completely so that i can tear it apart and try to repair it without wasting the days/months/years it has left. My concern is this; the closest i have to real electronic experience is within the realm of computer hardware (ive built several) and some theoretical circuitry knowledge (courtesy of a few semesters of physics), but im relatively tool-less (im a college student) and experience-less. what i'm wondering is if i could diagnose (mutlimeter etc) and solve this problem (soldering iron+caps) on a reasonable budget. Else, would it be better to try to find an electrician or someone else to fix it, or should i just run it into the ground until it breaks and then replace?


tl;dr version:
My relatively expensive monitor works, but is very irritating. I dont know what im doing (with electronics) and have no tools. without even opening up the monitor ive assumed ive got bad caps. should i give you pictures to try to diagnose, take to electrician, or ignore my problems and wait for it to die?


Thanks for any feedback/advice :3

[jetadm123]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

Don't wait until the monitor dies before you do something about it. If the problem is bad caps, then they will cause others parts to work harder and overheat. Then one day, poof! And a cloud of magic smoke appears! So, a potentially cheap fix could become an expensive one. Yes, open it up and post some photos (top and bottom) of the entire power board using the "manage attachments" button. Do not post photos inline.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

but im relatively tool-less (im a college student) and experience-less. what i'm wondering is if i could diagnose (mutlimeter etc) and solve this problem (soldering iron+caps) on a reasonable budget.

The problem I seem to find with this model is that the caps seem to get overheated on BOTH the power and logic board. If you read through all the threads, then you might have come to the conclusion that you should recap both boards (like I have).

The cost would probably be less than $20 for new caps and that is reasonable in my opinion because a new 28 inch monitor is still probably over $350.

Else, would it be better to try to find an electrician or someone else to fix it, or should i just run it into the ground until it breaks and then replace?

If you have no tools or experiene, I suggest finding someone good at soldering to do the work. The main/logic board is usually multilayer and with lead free (RoHS) solder, it could be challenging for the beginner.

If this monitor had different problems and it was only the single layer power board that needed recapping, then you could probably do it with a Frys' $2.99 30W solder iron.

tl;dr version:

For the regulars like myself, we always prefer the long version with as much detailed information and pictures versus the crap #1 twitter posts that read like

"urgent help broken hanns-g please tell me"

For the above, I just move onto the next thread.

[r1ckjam35]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

Thank you both for the prompt and helpful replies!

I been getting settled for the semester and hadn't had time to visit these boards for a few weeks.

Ive called several electronic stores locally and none have agreed to give me a quote (most of them werent familiar with Hanns-G). I may end up playing with an old mobo before i try to solder on the functioning board, but at this point, i think i may be performing the repair on my own.

Regardless, attached are pictures of the logic and power boards (i think) top and bottom. The only small visible imperfection is titled "untitled" and is a bit of white stuff (C34).

Whats next? Do i grab a multimeter?


Thanks again :3

[retiredcaps]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

I may end up playing with an old mobo before i try to solder on the functioning board, but at this point, i think i may be performing the repair on my own.

Practicing is a good idea. However, motherboards are likely 4 layers or more which means more copper planes to suck the heat away from iron tip.

The power board on your lcd is likely to be 1 layer making it much easier to solder.

Whats next? Do i grab a multimeter?

No multimeter can measure ESR (equivalent series resistance). Your description in post #1 highly suggest that the caps have high ESR. As the caps warm up, their ESR drops and this allows the lcd to work properly. Caps with high ESR will not necessarily bloat. Once the cap cools, the ESR rises and the lcd doesn't work again until warmed up.

By my count, you have 15 caps on the power board (including the big one). I suggest a complete recap of the power board.

[jetadm123]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

I thought your power supply looked familiar because there's a current thread on an I-Inc monitor with the same exact power supply and logic board as your monitor. No solution on that one either.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18375

[r1ckjam35]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

I thought your power supply looked familiar because there's a current thread on an I-Inc monitor with the same exact power supply and logic board as your monitor. No solution on that one either.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18375

Thanks for the link, but it appears to my untrained eye that his problem is dissimilar to mine.

Practicing is a good idea. However, motherboards are likely 4 layers or more which means more copper planes to suck the heat away from iron tip.

The power board on your lcd is likely to be 1 layer making it much easier to solder.



No multimeter can measure ESR (equivalent series resistance). Your description in post #1 highly suggest that the caps have high ESR. As the caps warm up, their ESR drops and this allows the lcd to work properly. Caps with high ESR will not necessarily bloat. Once the cap cools, the ESR rises and the lcd doesn't work again until warmed up.

By my count, you have 15 caps on the power board (including the big one). I suggest a complete recap of the power board.

Alright, that sounds like a reasonable course of action.

On to the fun stuff.

These are the capacitors currently on the power board (apologies for formatting, ill attach the xls when this gets unreadable):

Currently
Voltage (v) Capacitance (uF) Quantity Brand
450 180 1 Rubycon
10 220 1 Rubycon
50 10 4 Tiacom
35 33 1 Tiacom
35 1000 2 KY
25 680 2 KY
25 220 1 Tiacom
16 100 1 Tiacom
10 1000 2 KZH
Total 15

Do any of these look unreasonable? I did my best to double check. The two brands KY and KZH are preceded by the logo associated with the Chemi-con brands here:
http://capacitor.web.fc2.com/

You mentioned a cheap soldering iron. While Im certainly not made of money, I could comfortably afford ~20$ for the soldering iron + 40/60 solder w/ flux + de-solder-er (or copper braided wire, suggestion?), in addition to the ~20$ worth of capacitors. Again, Im not opposed to spending a bit extra, especially on the reusable stuffs. I'll be waiting for the capacitors anyway, so Id guess online is best bet for quality/$, any particular suggestions for a beginner?

Then for replacement caps, Id love to support the badcaps store, but Im not sure the selection is wide enough. Correct me if im wrong, but i need the replacement to have identical capacitance and at least equal max voltage. In particular, Im unable to find a replacement for the 450v/180uF cap.

Thanks again for the help thus far; i hope to have everything ordered by the end of this week...

[retiredcaps]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

While Im certainly not made of money, I could comfortably afford ~20$ for the soldering iron + 40/60 solder w/ flux + de-solder-er (or copper braided wire, suggestion?), in addition to the ~20$ worth of capacitors.

I'll answer this a bit later.

Then for replacement caps, Id love to support the badcaps store, but Im not sure the selection is wide enough.

The badcaps.net store caters to motherboards. So the largest voltage cap is typically 16V. For LCDs and TVs, 25V, 35V and 50V caps are required.

While we appreciate the gesture in supporting the badcaps.net store, you are likely to get your caps from digikey.com. And yes, I have already mentioned it twice to the owner here that his cap selection doesn't cater to the LCD/TV market.

For cap selection, see my standard response below

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...84&postcount=3

[retiredcaps]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

1) Well, I have seen this on sale for $12.99, but it is out of stock for an entire month. Add the extra tips to get the chisel for $4.99.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=374-100

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...Number=374-102

2) I used to use a desolder pump, but now I find the needle method a bit better.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=485

3) RadioShack did have their 40W iron on sale for $7.99, but it went back up to 10.99.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062738

4) For a single layer board, I have had sucess with 40W "sort by lowest price" ebay irons. I also got my 60/40 solder, desolder pump, wick, etc using same methodology. It can easily be done for under $20.

5) An excellent soldering video by CuriousInventor at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4

[r1ckjam35]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

I'll answer this a bit later.



The badcaps.net store caters to motherboards. So the largest voltage cap is typically 16V. For LCDs and TVs, 25V, 35V and 50V caps are required.

While we appreciate the gesture in supporting the badcaps.net store, you are likely to get your caps from digikey.com. And yes, I have already mentioned it twice to the owner here that his cap selection doesn't cater to the LCD/TV market.

For cap selection, see my standard response below

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...84&postcount=3

Alright, my cart is almost populated there by reputable brands.

1) Well, I have seen this on sale for $12.99, but it is out of stock for an entire month. Add the extra tips to get the chisel for $4.99.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=374-100

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...Number=374-102

2) I used to use a desolder pump, but now I find the needle method a bit better.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=485

3) RadioShack did have their 40W iron on sale for $7.99, but it went back up to 10.99.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062738

4) For a single layer board, I have had sucess with 40W "sort by lowest price" ebay irons. I also got my 60/40 solder, desolder pump, wick, etc using same methodology. It can easily be done for under $20.

5) An excellent soldering video by CuriousInventor at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4

@1) That does indeed look much nicer, too bad :/
@2) I read a little bit about the needle method, and actually saw a 5-pc option with what looked like a replacement for the dental instrument mentioned, but I think I would like to begin with a more standard approach.
@3) This also looks mention-ably nicer than the below stuff... but I am really unsure what to look for in a soldering iron. The only feature I could list as desirable (besides soldering wire/desolder/stand included) is a temperature/watt adjuster.
@4) Here are my results from ebay:
Soldering iron ~3$ shipped
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Wel...ht_2147wt_1270
Dozens of sellers with this identical model, but it is cheap enough to make me very hesitant. The tip looks fine enough for my application, but I would be more than fine with upgrading to a higher quality iron, if you have any suggestions of what to look for.

Solder wire ~3$ shipped
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-6mm-Tin-Le...ht_1913wt_1270
Again, cheap. But 37% lead, 3.2% (maybe) flux and remainder tin. Diameter .6mm which I think is close to perfect for the small job.

Sucker again ~3$ shipped
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antistatic-D...ht_2878wt_1037
And again exceptionally cheap looking.

Again I'd be happy to sink more into the equipment, especially if it was likely to increase durability/quality etc.

and @5) It was among the first few soldering videos I watched, but a very good recomendation to any novice solderer wannabe.

Thanks again for the prompt replies, If no one has any "NO, PLEASE DON'T BUY THAT THEY'RE TERRIBLE!!!!"s, Ill probably proceed to order and wait the couple weeks Hong Kong takes to ship.

@retiredcaps, you rock!

ps: ... again ...

[Sparks88]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

you may need to check what type of solder you need, in europe all electrical goods have to be made with lead free solder.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

Ill probably proceed to order and wait the couple weeks Hong Kong takes to ship.

If you live in the USA, I would go back to ebay.com and check USA only for sellers. You will probably pay about $4 more in total, but you will get the equipment much quicker (maybe 3 or 4 days)? The desolder pump is the same as mine. The 40W iron, while not identical, looks similar. The solder is the same brand, but I haven't cracked mine open yet (repairs are slow right now). So all the stuff below is pretty much identical to my setup. It has served me well for at least 25 or 30 monitor repairs so far.

For example,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320791592158

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110528943726

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320832015946

[retiredcaps]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

@2) I read a little bit about the needle method, and actually saw a 5-pc option with what looked like a replacement for the dental instrument mentioned, but I think I would like to begin with a more standard approach.

I just use a safety pin from those hotel sewing kits.

@3)The only feature I could list as desirable (besides soldering wire/desolder/stand included) is a temperature/watt adjuster.

Make your own stand out of a coat hanger.

http://blog.makezine.com/2010/08/19/...ng-iron-stand/

As for temperature control, there are some irons that feature built in for about $10, but I have no experience in them. Too bad the Stahl is out of stock. They are available on ebay, but will set you back $30.

PS. Don't thank me yet. There is still a chance that the main/logic board has bad caps (high ESR), but recapping the power board will be a lot easier for your first time.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

I totally forgot to ask for pictures of the inverter board. There are caps on there as well. Let's see who makes them and it is possible they have high ESR as well.

[r1ckjam35]

Re: Hanns-G HG281D Problem (badcap maybe)

you may need to check what type of solder you need, in europe all electrical goods have to be made with lead free solder.

The board is RoHS, but i think this means it was shipped without lead for my peace of mind, not that lead solder would have any negative impact on performance/longevity etc. Please feel free to correct me if im wrong

I just use a safety pin from those hotel sewing kits.



Make your own stand out of a coat hanger.

http://blog.makezine.com/2010/08/19/...ng-iron-stand/

As for temperature control, there are some irons that feature built in for about $10, but I have no experience in them. Too bad the Stahl is out of stock. They are available on ebay, but will set you back $30.

PS. Don't thank me yet. There is still a chance that the main/logic board has bad caps (high ESR), but recapping the power board will be a lot easier for your first time.

I went ahead and made my ebay purchases (from US distributors), so ETA of materials is early next week. I may play around with the needle method on one of the spare boards. The link to the DIY stand had another post about a beercan stand. I had to look. I will go ahead and make one of those, I never hang up my clothing anyway...

If i need a lower temp out of my iron, i think a generic dimmer will do the trick (with a few more outside applications to boot). Again, correct me please if im mistaken.

The shout out was for the consistent and helpful direction. The thanks thanks will be if/when the monitor is back to comfortable to use again.

soon... soon.

I totally forgot to ask for pictures of the inverter board. There are caps on there as well. Let's see who makes them and it is possible they have high ESR as well.

Ive located the three caps on the inverter, but they are all (glued down) on their sides and there are no visible markings outside the max temps. Also, there are no visible imperfections on either side of the board. As soon as i can borrow a camera again, ill go ahead and take some pictures.

Feedback is always appreciated.


e: spelling