I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

So you are saying your statement in post 40 was incorrect.

PlainBill

No.
I didn't say anything that remotely conflicts with post 40.

Anyone with any experience knows quality brand 105C caps last 10, 15, 20 or more years.
The equipment will be obsolete before the caps are even close to wearing out.
- That is REGARDLESS of their Load Life rating.
Thus - worrying about the Load Life rating is A WASTE OF TIME.

.
The point was even mediocre caps last a butt-ton longer than the Load Life rating so worrying about the Load Life rating is STILL a WASTE OF TIME.
.
IOW: Worrying about the Load Life rating is ALWAYS a waste of time.
.
Anyone that actually knows what that spec is would know that.
.

[PlainBill]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

Not necessarily.
I rather doubt the 45 year old caps in my old Ford's original AM radio are 105C and they are probably not a Jap brand either.
And ya know what... It still works fine.
.

So you are saying your statement in post 40 was incorrect.

PlainBill

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

One omission, PCBONEZ. should have been in bold face type.

PlainBill

Not necessarily.
I rather doubt the 45 year old caps in my old Ford's original AM radio are 105C and they are probably not a Jap brand either.
And ya know what... It still works fine.
.

[PlainBill]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

A number of manufacturers give equations to get from Load Life to LifeSPAN.
[Which further shows they are not the same thing.]

The problem is those equations are only good to +/-40%. (Some of them state this when they give the equation.)
So, you do all the math and come up with 10 years. (10-20 years would be typical.)
It -really- means: "somewhere between 6 and 14 years".
- NOT USEFUL for any PRACTICAL purpose.

Anyone with any experience knows quality brand 105C caps last 10, 15, 20 or more years.
The equipment will be obsolete before the caps are even close to wearing out.
- That is REGARDLESS of their Load Life rating.
Thus - worrying about the Load Life rating is A WASTE OF TIME.

~~~
That said:
Temp changes the Load Life and LifeSPAN by the same percent.
[This is because temp is in the same place in both correction equations.]
So: If you double Load Life the you also double LifeSPAN.
.

One omission, PCBONEZ.

quality brand 105C caps

should have been in bold face type.

PlainBill

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

A number of manufacturers give equations to get from Load Life to LifeSPAN.
[Which further shows they are not the same thing.]

The problem is those equations are only good to +/-40%. (Some of them state this when they give the equation.)
So, you do all the math and come up with 10 years. (10-20 years would be typical.)
It -really- means: "somewhere between 6 and 14 years".
- NOT USEFUL for any PRACTICAL purpose.

Anyone with any experience knows quality brand 105C caps last 10, 15, 20 or more years.
The equipment will be obsolete before the caps are even close to wearing out.
- That is REGARDLESS of their Load Life rating.
Thus - worrying about the Load Life rating is A WASTE OF TIME.

~~~
That said:
Temp changes the Load Life and LifeSPAN by the same percent.
[This is because temp is in the same place in both correction equations.]
So: If you double Load Life the you also double LifeSPAN.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

The rating is in fact a lifespan at 105C. It is designated as both "Load life" and "Shelf life" in the spec sheet, but don't take my word for it

No, it's not.
And to think so is inherently stupid.
.
Do you ~really~ think the LifeSPAN of Rubycon MBZ is only 2000 hrs?
- That's only 83 days.
.

[nightstar]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

The rating is in fact a lifespan at 105C. It is designated as both "Load life" and "Shelf life" in the spec sheet, but don't take my word for it

If the CapXcon capacitors in my monitor were operating outside or on the edge of their rating then they clearly weren't suitable for the task to which they were purposed. Regardless the caps failed as evidenced by my effective repair by replacement. If you would like I'll bag up the old caps and mail them off to you so you can evaluate them with your ESR meter to validate my findings but I expect it'd just be a waste of time for us both.

What is obvious to me is that a capacitor with 10x the rated endurance of another capacitor with identical operating specifications should last 10x as long under identical conditions regardless of who the manufacturer is or what name has been given to the model.

I'm a grumpy old fart myself and nothing makes me feel more grumpy than someone making bad assumptions in a condescending tone with random capitalization.

Sorry to hijack your thread AloofOne, good luck with your monitor.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

The CapXcon caps on my logic board were KM and ST series which are rated for a meager 1000 hrs and 2000 hrs respectively the lower of which approximates the three year warranty period on this monitor. I suspect a case of planned obsolecense.

That rating isn't a LifeSPAN rating it's a Load Life rating [aka Endurance.]
It has NOTHING to do with how long the caps are expected to last in normal use.
.
It is how many hours you can run the cap at Max Temp -and- Max Volts -and- Max Ripple Current (all at the same time) -and- NOT have the cap go out of spec.
.
.
It should be obvious that it isn't LifeSPAN as Rubycon MBZ, MCZ and Nichicon HM, HN, HZ are -all- rated for 2000 hrs.
.

[nightstar]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

Temperature definately influences capacitor endurance. With 4 CF tubes packed into about half a cubic foot things get pretty hot! I've installed a quiet fan to circulate/induct air through the chassis, hopefully this extends the life of my replacements.

The data sheet from CapXon indicates the same number of hours for shelf life as operating life. When I compare these to other makes/lines with up to 20k hours of service life they just don't seem like worthwhile components for anything but a disposable camera.

[PlainBill]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

I have an IF281D that was exhibiting similar symptoms. Periodic black outs with increasing frequency preceded by shimmering text at the top of the screen and an occasional ghost image displaced horizontally. For a time I averted the black screen problem by removing the shroud and directing a high powered fan at the electronics on the back.

Based on the visual artifacts I discounted the possibility of inverter/back light failure and recapped the input logic board. So far the repair seems to be successful.

The CapXcon caps on my logic board were KM and ST series which are rated for a meager 1000 hrs and 2000 hrs respectively the lower of which approximates the three year warranty period on this monitor. I suspect a case of planned obsolecense.

Good luck with your repair I'll wager a recap sets things right.

It's good to know that a recap solved the problem for you.

One point: many people misinterpret the 'hours' rating for caps. A cap rated for 1000 hours at 105°C is good for 2000 hours at 95°C, 4000 hours at 85°C, etc. Since it is very unusual for consumer electronics to be running at a temperature above 55°C, a 1000 hour rating isn't bad. Again, it's the quality of the manufacturer, not the hour rating that is important.

PlainBill

[nightstar]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

I have an IF281D that was exhibiting similar symptoms. Periodic black outs with increasing frequency preceded by shimmering text at the top of the screen and an occasional ghost image displaced horizontally. For a time I averted the black screen problem by removing the shroud and directing a high powered fan at the electronics on the back.

Based on the visual artifacts I discounted the possibility of inverter/back light failure and recapped the input logic board. So far the repair seems to be successful.

The CapXcon caps on my logic board were KM and ST series which are rated for a meager 1000 hrs and 2000 hrs respectively the lower of which approximates the three year warranty period on this monitor. I suspect a case of planned obsolecense.

Good luck with your repair I'll wager a recap sets things right.

[PlainBill]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

What do you think i should do bill? Junk it? or try recapping and hope i get lucky?

I'd try more extensive testing. There are two possible causes - Something that opens when it gets warm, or something that fails when it is flexed when it is mounted in place.

Try this - Hook several long wires to the power supply outputs, then lead them outside the case when you reassemble it. Make sure they are not in any position to be damaged by being squeezed against the case!! See if the power supply fails when the power LED goes out. Or of course, you could always send it to me. But I really think you can at least isolate it to one board.

PlainBill

[AloofOne]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

What do you think i should do bill? Junk it? or try recapping and hope i get lucky?

[PlainBill]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

Also i forgot to mention i also plugged the inverter board alone with the other boards minus the t-con and it powered on for about 20mins, then i just unplugged it slightly angry and very confused.

I understand your feelings. And of course, you can be pretty sure that if you hook all components together outside of the case it will still work - but it will fail if you completely reassemble it.

PlainBill

[AloofOne]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

Also i forgot to mention i also plugged the inverter board alone with the other boards minus the t-con and it powered on for about 20mins, then i just unplugged it slightly angry and very confused.

[AloofOne]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

I ran a volt test on the monitor today hooking up the video/signal board with the powerbaord and control panel. i couldn't get monitor to power off for me with just these 2 boards connected. I did how test the 5vsb on the signal card and it seemed fine. i tested it by turn the tv on and off with the power button.

[PlainBill]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

I wouldn't know because i've never tried a test like that yet. I will test the monitor tomorrow to see if i get a drop in voltage. i'm assuming i need to have everything hooked up but be able to take readings while turning the monitor on correct?

Pretty much, although you don't need to connect the cable from the signal card to the LCD panel. I'd hook the power supply, signal card and the control panel together on a piece of cardboard (for insulation) and supply a signal from the computer. For the first test I wouldn't bother with the inverter or LCD panel. This may be a thermal problem, so don't be surprised if it operates longer before the power LED goes dark. And of course, be very careful of where you touch the power supply while it is operating.

PlainBill

[AloofOne]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

I wouldn't know because i've never tried a test like that yet. I will test the monitor tomorrow to see if i get a drop in voltage. i'm assuming i need to have everything hooked up but be able to take readings while turning the monitor on correct?

[PlainBill]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

To answer your question bill i powered the monitor on first blue light came on then it went into standby (Orange light). Then i plugged my HDMI into the monitor and powered on the playstation. The monitor reacted and the blue light came back on shortly after followed by a picture.

After 2 minutes of working perfectly with sound it shut off completely. No power light no orange light, no blue light ,no light at all on the bottom right corner. Like someone just unplugged it.

I tried turning it back on but it wouldn't power on until maybe the 3rd or 4th try after leaving it alone for a minute or so which didn't last more then 1- 5 secs.

Here is a photo of when the monitor first powered on. After change the resolution the screen looked fine. If have any other questions i'd be happy to answer them. Right now i'm puzzled as to where the problem area is.

Thanks, definitely NOT 'two seconds to black'. Also very unlikely it is the tcon. It's late, it's been a long day, so excuse me for not reviewing the thread, but do the power supply outputs drop when the power light goes out?

If the standby power supply (5V_SB) stays good when the monitor shuts down, it's almost certainly the signal card. If 5V_SB drops, it's definitely the power supply.

PlainBill

[AloofOne]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

To answer your question bill i powered the monitor on first blue light came on then it went into standby (Orange light). Then i plugged my HDMI into the monitor and powered on the playstation. The monitor reacted and the blue light came back on shortly after followed by a picture.

After 2 minutes of working perfectly with sound it shut off completely. No power light no orange light, no blue light ,no light at all on the bottom right corner. Like someone just unplugged it.

I tried turning it back on but it wouldn't power on until maybe the 3rd or 4th try after leaving it alone for a minute or so which didn't last more then 1- 5 secs.

Here is a photo of when the monitor first powered on. After change the resolution the screen looked fine. If have any other questions i'd be happy to answer them. Right now i'm puzzled as to where the problem area is.