Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Did pioneer have the same extended warranty policy about their faulty chips?

[culcuhain]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

yup. Your old chip was Revision B and the new Chip is Revision D. I believe there was a large batch of those TI DTS Chips that had premature failure. I know Pioneer had the same issues with their DTS chip failing early.

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

And here are the promised pictures of the new and old HDMI boards. In the zip file is the full size image.

The new board is the one with the "New" label on the DTS chip.


And if someone is new to this topic, here is the brief story - Onkyo tx-nr609 with "no sound/no network/no video" problem, capacitor change on the HDMI board did not help, nor DTS chip reflow with hot air gun. Then I sent the uinit for the extended warranty repair. They replaced the HDMI board, the power board and the main board ( apparently just HDMI board swap did not do the magic, which is still strange to me since the unit was booting fine and there were no errors/protection ).
So the layout of the new pcb seems to be the same as the old one ( I have not searched very thoroughly for differences though ) , so I guess the only revised thing is the DTS chip.... this is in connection to the pcb modifications mentioned here.

[tibimakai]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Yes, they run hot. These early ones, did not even have a fan(if I remember correctly).
Even the later ones, which have a fan, they start around 60 C(I have read this somewhere).

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Well... is it just me or that onkyo avrs run really hot?
I'm now testing the 609 and it already has reached 40+C* on the top.. and thats for something like 20 minutes on low volume... and the worst part is that it is hotter over the hdmi pcb than the amp heatsink.

[tibimakai]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

mmartell, that was an Ebay repair man's repair, not Onkyo.
Since these issues were causing problems, I'm using a 120MM fan that has an RPM controller from a laptop cooler and I'm swapping out the original fan with this setup.
I squeeze the thin USB cable, through the grommet for the main and I plug it in, into the TV's USB port. This way, the receiver is cooled constantly, as the TV is on.

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Just got the receiver.

The receipt says ( in brief ) - the unit had power before HDMI board switch, after that - no power. HDMI board changed ( again ), main amp pcb, driver pcb and a set of transistors also changed.

So the HDMI board is definitely new and I do not see any design changes from the old one. Only the DSP chip has a sticker saying "New".
The main board looks like a refurbished one to me - still the RCA connectors are new and shiny and the main caps seem to be also brand new.

Here are some LQ pics of the boards. Later I'll make HQ pics and will also upload the pics with the original parts.

So if the receipt is right, now I have almost brand new amplifier. All essential parts ( but the transformer ) have been replaced. The old parts are the chassis, front panel, cover, heatsink and the pcb connecting the mainboard with the hdmi board.

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Next week my 609 should arrive and I will report what has been made.
From an email I got, they say the HDMI board, the driver PCB, the main PCB and transistors were replaced... which is kind of strange to me. The unit was powering up, the menu was operational, the voltages were fine, no protection mode....
It will be interesting

[mmartell]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

I think in the beginning they were modifying the board with a daughtercard but i can't say what function(s) it was performing. Tibimikai posted pics of it at some point. Maybe they incorporated those changes into the boards and don't need it as i haven't heard of one being used in some time.

[llonen]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Of all of the units I have sent off now for repair they simply swap out the DSP board, I am not sure if they have resolved the problem so I fit GPU cooler's to the DTS chip before they go back to the customer.

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Well, my unit is currently travelling for extended warranty service. If everything goes well, I'll post before and after photos when I get may hands on it.

[Longbow]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Thanks llonen. Has anyone confirmed how Onkyo fixes the problem? My guess is that they replace the whole DSP board rather than working on the faulty one. There might be some clues there? I'd be interested to know if the unit works at all with a different, lower frequency clock crystal.

[llonen]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Well according to the notes I made when I first started seeing these the DTS chip runs hot, affecting the BGA mounting, as to the 5 volt rail from what I found it was running in excess of 5 volt. Since I only box these up and ship them out for repair its not something I look into much beyond verifying the hdmi board is the problem. The next one that comes in with a non hdmi problem I will look into this in some detail and post the results.

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Interesting. What is the voltage on this rail to begin with? It doesn't make sense that lowering a power supply rail would allow a chip to run cooler. Just the opposite, in fact. Most micros will not tolerate much in the way of undervoltage. Maybe the original 5 volt regulator just can't supply the required current? I could buy that.

The one thing I CAN think of that would run a big micro cooler is to reduce the clock frequency. But, that would probably create timing problems. Glad there is a factory option for repair in any case. DSP boards have been a major pain since their humble beginnings.

It depends on the design engineer. I have seen logic chips designed by a EE engineer, who was a Professor, run on two volts and they supplied 5 volts to these chips. The thinking is the rest of the energy would give off as heat. The problem was found that the fuse keep blowing. My manager got rid of the fuse and replaced it will a paper clip. After running it for 24 hours it started on fire. The answer was to put a fan on top of the boards to blow air through them. This took care of the heat and if the fan did not run the unit did not turn on or run.

[Longbow]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

the sub board that is often fitted by third party repairers is a regulator to lower the 5 volt rail a bit to a allow the chip to run cooler.

Interesting. What is the voltage on this rail to begin with? It doesn't make sense that lowering a power supply rail would allow a chip to run cooler. Just the opposite, in fact. Most micros will not tolerate much in the way of undervoltage. Maybe the original 5 volt regulator just can't supply the required current? I could buy that.

The one thing I CAN think of that would run a big micro cooler is to reduce the clock frequency. But, that would probably create timing problems. Glad there is a factory option for repair in any case. DSP boards have been a major pain since their humble beginnings.

[llonen]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

I have had four more of these series come through the workshop in the past two months, since at the time Onkyo are still currently honouring the out of warranty repairs for these series it is simply not worth me repairing them I simply send them off. As to the dsp chip failure it is heat related affecting the soldering, the sub board that is often fitted by third party repairers is a regulator to lower the 5 volt rail a bit to a allow the chip to run cooler. Another good step is to fit a small fan to the dsp

[mmartell]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

I guess I'll have to see what onkyo think.

Don't contact them just fill out the online form and go from there.

As far as the dsp chip itself I don't know for certain but I believe the chip was faulty through the manufacturing process akin to the nvidia "bumpgate" and that a reball of a failed ic was not a permanent fix.

[mmartell]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

Question, have you done work on your Onkyo and told them you have done the work and still had them honor the extended warranty for this IC?

I pulled a suspect sm cap and replaced it with an electrolytic then sent it in when it didn't work. Did I tell them ? Lol, no.

Onkyo is a large corporation making goods for retail to home. They don't have the facilities to actually perform the extended repair work. If that's the case they farm it out to 3rd parties who are not likely to be cutting their own throats by refusing service when Onkyo is footing the bill. Besides, I'm sure they're not being paid to do much beyond verify the symptoms and then swap out the board and retest.

If you're asking do I feel guilty the answer is a little bit but only because in every case I was not the original purchaser of the unit and that's the person who should have benefitted from the extended warranty.

[tibimakai]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

I have sold it, long time ago.
I have just finished repairing, a 636 and 646 receivers, with blown amps.

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-NR609 New DSP chip fitted

They don't care about that. Remember these units were out of warranty it's your right to seek repair at any shop you choose. As long as it hasn't already been repaired under the extended warranty and it matches the known symptoms (no speaker icons being one of them) they will cover it.

Solid logic here!
I guess I'll have to see what onkyo think.

I had one of these 616, with no sound(look up on this forum). I have sent my board, to an Ebay repairman and he added a little board that was tuck to a big IC, which seems like is providing a proper 5V supply to some parts. I have never investigated this, I have just sold the receiver. I have took some pictures, though.
Found the picture, here it is(#69):
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...x-nr609&page=4

I've read that topic and thoroughly checked the pics ( by the way if you have more pics from other angles please upload them ).
From what I remember, this board was supplying power to the filter caps right after the small 5-legged regulators ( one of that for sure was supplying the dsp chip ). I checked that regulators with scope and did not find any ripples or low V values.

Still waiting someone to say what exactly is causing the dsp to fail...