Wine Fridge Power Board

[Krobbie]

Greetings,

I also know this is quite an old thread... But there is a lot of good info here.
I just received an Allivino dual chamber wine cooler with the HYS60-12-KD boards. Looks like the Peltier modules are shot. In reference to Post #165, I get about 9.6V on one chamber for the internal fan (CN5, 3 pin) and 12V on the other chamber for the internal fan (CN5, 3 pin)... (not the rear fans, (CN3) they are solid 12V). Oddly - the chamber fans are fed through a 75 Ohm power resistor. The drive circuit looks pretty simple and the parts test OK. I was wondering if anyone can tell me if this is typical, or if not - how to remedy this? Seems like a bad idea to power a 12V fan with such a low voltage. I pulled the fan and it is a 12V, 0.08A fan, and tests just fine on the bench.

Thanks!

[Wes2020]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

I see that this is an old thread, but just had my Wine Cooler go out and found these two boards questionable. What should be the outputs for CN1, CN2, CN3 & CN4 (Should be the same.) and CN5 pins 1 & 2 since 3 is ground.?
I found a print and it looks like it will work, so far all the parts match, only problem none of the components are labeled on the print. At least I've got something to look at, not like the old days when you could just pull out a Sams Photofact and just jump right in there and fix it.
Any help besides replacing all the Caps?
Thanks Wes!

[jimmigee]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

I will be tearing into one of these this weekend. The only replacement board I can find is on ebay for 69 bucks! What a rip!

[San7an44]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

HYS60-12-KD Here

My internal fan is only getting 9.6v when running

Compared to the other heat side fan which is at 12v
Rest of the voltages seem fine.

Any recommended solution?

[c5gary2]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

Rubycon YXJ or Panasonic FC would be good there. They are not super low ESR but have high lifetimes. They are also good quality brands.

Yes, you would typically like to choose 105 degrees or higher rated parts.

THANK YOU! Looks like Rubycon p/n 50YXJ47M6.3X11 then. Rated at 105degC, 7000 Hours. This is the 50V version but has better specs (I think) and is a nickle cheaper than the 25V version, only $0.26 at Digikey.

Is it right next to the output rectifier heatsink? That may account for part of the problem. You could mount the replacement on a lean, further away from it.

Yes, it is right next to the heatsink! Could easily be mounted further away, will do that. At least it is UNDER the heatsink as the board is mounted in the fridge, heat rises and probably cools it a little!

BTW, the article that helped solve this repair was this one:
http://ludens.cl/Electron/PS40/PS40.html

Very good, explanation of startup of one of these two transformer, two pair of transistor type of switching supplies. Something I could not find anywhere else.

The one last thing I am going to work on is:
These wine fridges are JUST adequate. Gets the wine down to where it is preserved but not totally cool enough for white wine in the summer heat.
I think just upping the voltage will do it, I am only getting about 11.2V out to drive the Peltier. Hopefully the chinese Peltier can stand a little more. This should be just be a resistor change, ANYONE TELL ME WHICH ONE?

Oh, I did have one original Peltier fail. Looked like it was poorly mounted. I bought a replacement from ebay (chinese) mounted it with more care and it has survived just fine. I think it was only $3 to $4. Some of the previous posts said you need to get a USA made one but I beg to differ. After all this whole fridge comes from China!

Just for future googlers (this is a huge thread), this supply is known as the RF-5210-11. New replacement ones have the socketed microcontroller on the board which is not needed in this application and the original boards did not have it.

Thanks again,
Gary

[Agent24]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

This cap is just a supply filter cap (though it runs at about 6KHz) why is low ESR all that important?
It seems to me that what is needed is not so much a low ESR cap as a cap that stays low ESR! I was thinking more about specified life hours and temp rating??

The lower the ESR, the less heat generated inside the capacitor from loss, so the longer life it should have, and the better... (to a point - if the ESR is extremely low and the circuit is not designed for it, then the circuit may become unstable)

Rubycon YXJ or Panasonic FC would be good there. They are not super low ESR but have high lifetimes. They are also good quality brands.

Yes, you would typically like to choose 105 degrees or higher rated parts.

Lifetime of these supplies seems to be two to four years for me (24/7 operation). This one cap seems to be the one over-stressed component.
Caps I have removed look perfect, no bulging or leaks, etc.

Is it right next to the output rectifier heatsink? That may account for part of the problem. You could mount the replacement on a lean, further away from it.

[c5gary2]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

Thank you!
Share a part number/supplier?
Looking at Digikey, they don't specify ESR for Rubycon without going though a lot of datasheets?
This cap is just a supply filter cap (though it runs at about 6KHz) why is low ESR all that important?
It seems to me that what is needed is not so much a low ESR cap as a cap that stays low ESR! I was thinking more about specified life hours and temp rating??
Maybe there are spikes about 25V so it should be a higher voltage cap?

Lifetime of these supplies seems to be two to four years for me (24/7 operation). This one cap seems to be the one over-stressed component.
Caps I have removed look perfect, no bulging or leaks, etc.

Thanks,
Gary
WB6OGD

[Agent24]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

A Low-ESR type from a decent company like Rubycon would be the best idea.

[c5gary2]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

Was able to fix my three of these supplies.

ALL had a bad C8 Vdd supply cap. ESR was about 33ohms!

Having a bad Vdd caused two of the supplies to also blow T5 small NPN transistor. I replaced one T5 with a common 2n3904 I had, seems to work fine.
I need to get another C8 for the other supply.

C8 seems to be under the most stress. Is there a really good replacement that could fix the un-reliability of this supply?

Now to go have a glass of wine..!
C5GARY2

[c5gary2]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

Hi,
Its 2017 and I am trying to fix one of these supplies from my Haer wine fridge.
The problem is at startup. Watching the VDD line, it cycles for a little while and then gives up. If I remove the Peliter load, it will power up fine to 12V, the fans and LED works..If I then hook up the Peltier, it keeps working fine. I can adjust the temp and everything.
This is the third one of this supply that has gone bad, I am tired of buying new ones. On one of the other ones, I pulled, tested and replaced all the LV caps.
The worst ESR was 22ohms but most were low and some were lower than the new ones! I don't think it is caps. That one is not fixed and actually runs the fans and LED but not the Peltier even after the disconnect trick.

ANY body still out there and any ideas?

[keeney123]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

Hello,
I've bought Thomson's wine fridge Millesime 18 but I'm not convinced about the performance. As the room temperature is about 23°C, the fridge can't go below 16°C. So I'd like to optimize it and probably change some elements.
I've discovered the power board is HYS60-12-KD. It's very similar to the one describe on this post, but still some variants as it can only drive one peltier module (IC3 is not present).
My idea is to change the peltier module to a more powerful one. But I need to know how much power the board can deliver not to buy an oversized module.

I read the exchanges above and spend few hours to design the power part on KiCad (opensource). So I thank you for the schematics you posted as they were really helpful.
You'll find the design attached. Please let me know if something is wrong.

Trillien

Did you have any luck with this? The units is rated at rate at either input wattage or output wattage these are the limits of the power supply.

[keeney123]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

To test out the Peltier devices one would disconnect them from the power board and connect them to and external good power supply. The Peltiers would remain assembled in the unit. The fans should also be disconnected from the power board and connected to external power so they would turn. The current and voltage should be monitored to make sure and over current or over/under voltage does not happen according to specifications of the Peltiers. A power supply where one can adjust both current and voltage is preferable, but not necessary. A linear supply is also preferable. If the Peltiers are good the unit will cool and there should be heat coming from the heat sinks. As the cooling process continues the heat sinks will put out less heat. A noticeable cooling will happen in 8 hours.

[keeney123]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

Thanks for your updated schematic. I can now see the error in the other one were the transformer was attached. I was a technician perhaps one of the engineers would help you in getting a Peltier that can drive these cooler under 60F. Seems that is the best they can achieve. You need to be careful as to the parameters on the Peltiers. The ones from China will not draw anymore than 2.7 Amps at 12 volts before they burn up. One person got some from an American Supplier and it would draw the 6.5 Amps but I think it did eventually burn up. I had a refrigerator that had 2 Peltiers but I bought the Chinese ones. The unit was rated as 130 Watts figuring that is RMS the Average DC would be a little less perhaps 120 Watts. To drive that one would need 10 amps at 12 volts. Each Peltier would need to draw 5 amps. When some people list the currents that Peltiers can handle it is for a temporary time which may not be able to overcome the ambient. My refrigerator was rated at 70 F ambient and said the maximum it would get down to was 37 F. The American Peltiers cost a minimum of $22 each. The power supply seems to me to be large enough to drive the 10 amps of current at 12 volts. It is the Peltiers that can not handle this current for any amount of time. One could calculate on much power one would need to drop the temperature inside an given insulated space over a given time. I would say it would take a minimum of 8 hours to significantly drop the temp. Also, know that when these Peltiers are putting out a lot of heat they are working very hard doing what they are suppose to do. That is take heat from an inside space and deliver it to and outside space and remember every time one opens the door that these Peltiers will have to overcome that heat. Peltiers are very inefficient and are use usually used to create electricity in areas that do not have power buy burning wood/etc. on one side creating a temperature difference which than generates electricity. Also, If you reverse the current you could also have a heater.

[Trillien]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

Hello,
I've bought Thomson's wine fridge Millesime 18 but I'm not convinced about the performance. As the room temperature is about 23°C, the fridge can't go below 16°C. So I'd like to optimize it and probably change some elements.
I've discovered the power board is HYS60-12-KD. It's very similar to the one describe on this post, but still some variants as it can only drive one peltier module (IC3 is not present).
My idea is to change the peltier module to a more powerful one. But I need to know how much power the board can deliver not to buy an oversized module.

I read the exchanges above and spend few hours to design the power part on KiCad (opensource). So I thank you for the schematics you posted as they were really helpful.
You'll find the design attached. Please let me know if something is wrong.

Trillien

[keeney123]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

Just want to let you know that the schematic is off. I am not sure what is off but BudM's virtual component layout was off and fzabkar caught it. I could not get anyone to correct the schematic.

dunkel I wonder if you could verify the schematic by ohming it out to find where it is in error?

[keeney123]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

Hello, sorry for the delay i haven't checked my transistor i will do this weekend so i hope i can find a similar one.

Thanks

Just want to let you know that the schematic is off. I am not sure what is off but BudM's virtual component layout was off and fzabkar caught it. I could not get anyone to correct the schematic.

[dunkel]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

The MJE13005G appears to be similar in specs to the others:

https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...8910f762a5.pdf

Its pinout is BCE (left to right). The MJE13007 is a higher current, higher wattage version of the MJE13005G, so ISTM that it should be a good choice, provided that the pinout is correct. Just make sure to use heatsink insulation if necessary. I also notice that neither transistor has a CE diode, so that explains the one on the PCB.

Hello, sorry for the delay i haven't checked my transistor i will do this weekend so i hope i can find a similar one.

Thanks

[keeney123]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

I just do not have much time right now, I will be going back to work tomorrow after been off from work for a month after the surgery, sorry.

I guess someone else can do it as I have lost all interest in this thread.

[budm]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

I just do not have much time right now, I will be going back to work tomorrow after been off from work for a month after the surgery, sorry.

[keeney123]

Re: Wine Fridge Power Board

How did you assign which one to be pin 1 in my drawing so I can see what you are saying?
There are 5 pins on the left side, 3 pins on the right side.
I think I see where my mistake is, one of the Gate drive winding should not be connected to GND, I have one end of both Gate drive windings connected to GND so that is wrong. I should have caught that if I draw up the schematic like Keeney suggested in the beginning, sorry.
The topology is similar to this:
http://danyk.cz/s_atx01h.png

http://danyk.cz/s_atx_en.html

So Bud M could you change my schematic to reflect the correction as I think my schematic is easier to understand with no crossing lines.