Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

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  • Dannyx
    CertifiedAxhole
    • Aug 2016
    • 3912
    • Romania

    #201
    Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

    Originally posted by redwire
    The stray voltage will be enough to damage semiconductors!
    Yeah, I may have killed some stuff too because of this without even realizing it So it's ground or bust from now on. Sadly there isn't anything metal around which I can use for grounding, so the long wire idea is probably the way to go.....unless it turns out the wire itself acts as an antenna and ends up picking up stray voltages
    Wattevah...

    Comment

    • Agent24
      I see dead caps
      • Oct 2007
      • 4913
      • New Zealand

      #202
      Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

      Make sure there is a 1Megohm resistor between the iron tip and earth, so you don't short anything to ground if you accidentally solder something live. Also this limits current of ESD events.

      It could also be a fault in the tip/handle or bad design of the power supply making the tip live.
      "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
      -David VanHorn

      Comment

      • Dannyx
        CertifiedAxhole
        • Aug 2016
        • 3912
        • Romania

        #203
        Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

        I'll actually open the thing up to have a look see. It's SMPS-based, so it doesn't quite make sense for the tip to go live, since the outer housing should be like chassis GND...you never know with chinese products. They sometimes skimp on safety features or just implement them wrong
        Wattevah...

        Comment

        • stj
          Great Sage 齊天大聖
          • Dec 2009
          • 30932
          • Albion

          #204
          Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

          it makes perfect sense,

          the outer tube of the tip is earthed to ground/0v

          and switching psu's have a ceramic cap between the primary side and 0v on the secondary side.

          Comment

          • sam_sam_sam
            Badcaps Legend
            • Jul 2011
            • 6023
            • USA

            #205
            Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

            So what is the solution to this problem that is realistic that will not require a complete makeover

            Is this the switching power supply that comes with the unit or is this some other brand power supply

            Does happen when you using on house current or is this on battery power unit
            Please answer this question because this is very important
            Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 11-18-2019, 07:07 PM.

            Comment

            • stj
              Great Sage 齊天大聖
              • Dec 2009
              • 30932
              • Albion

              #206
              Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

              it's capacitivly coupled mains from the psu - *all* switching psu's do it - all switching psu's should have an earth - including phone chargers.

              infact especially including phone chargers with the growing number of idiots using earbuds at the same time as the charger!!

              Comment

              • Dannyx
                CertifiedAxhole
                • Aug 2016
                • 3912
                • Romania

                #207
                Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                Ok guys, here's the insides of this soldering station: just a SMPS which accounts for 90% of the space inside and the business end at the front. I added my binding post on the back next to the IEC plug and soldered it to the earth prong. I haven't tested it out yet You can also clearly see the cap between HOT and COLD GND there.
                Attached Files
                Wattevah...

                Comment

                • momaka
                  master hoarder
                  • May 2008
                  • 12164
                  • Bulgaria

                  #208
                  Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                  Originally posted by stj
                  it makes perfect sense,

                  the outer tube of the tip is earthed to ground/0v

                  and switching psu's have a ceramic cap between the primary side and 0v on the secondary side.
                  Exactly.

                  Though that cap between secondary ground and primary negative (-) bus should NOT be a REGULAR ceramic cap (I'm sure you know that already, but just stating it for anyone else in the thread who may not be aware.) It needs to be safety-approved Y2-class rated. The difference is that Y2 caps will not fail short-circuited in the event of over-voltage or breakdown, whereas regular ceramic caps can. This leaves the potential (pun intended) for regular safety caps to fully energize the chassis of the device if it is ungrounded ("double-insulated" as some devices claim... though I only think that applies with devices that use a regular line-connected transformer - now these are truly double-insulated.)

                  That said, even with a Y2-class cap between ground and primary negative (-) bus, there will still be a small leakage current, hence why you get the slight shocks. The unloaded voltage could actually be pretty high - as high as 160V AC. But due to the low capacitance of the Y2 cap, the current is limited and very tiny.

                  Unfortunately, that cap needs to be there for the PSU manufacturer to comply with EMI/RFI standards. But it does create problems for ungrounded devices - particularly soldering irons, as you can easily destroy ESD-sensitive components.

                  So on that matter, I agree with STJ: the PSU needs to be grounded.

                  Originally posted by Agent24
                  Make sure there is a 1Megohm resistor between the iron tip and earth, so you don't short anything to ground if you accidentally solder something live. Also this limits current of ESD events.
                  +1

                  This is certainly the recommended way to do it.
                  Last edited by momaka; 11-27-2019, 07:52 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Dannyx
                    CertifiedAxhole
                    • Aug 2016
                    • 3912
                    • Romania

                    #209
                    Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                    So I should add a 1 Meg-ohm resistor between the COLD GND (chassis GND )and that ground binding post I added which goes to earth ?
                    Wattevah...

                    Comment

                    • stj
                      Great Sage 齊天大聖
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 30932
                      • Albion

                      #210
                      Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                      no, add the resistor inline with the iron connector.

                      IMO you want to limit the ground current to the tip, but not the case or a case short wont blow the fuse!

                      Comment

                      • Dannyx
                        CertifiedAxhole
                        • Aug 2016
                        • 3912
                        • Romania

                        #211
                        Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                        When you say "iron connector" you mean the shell of the connector ? I think the metal part of the iron is connected to the chassis of the station anyway....must admit I haven't tried measured.
                        Wattevah...

                        Comment

                        • stj
                          Great Sage 齊天大聖
                          • Dec 2009
                          • 30932
                          • Albion

                          #212
                          Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                          well you need to find out how the iron is wired,
                          i wouldnt be surprised if they dont actually use the shell, because screened cable would cost more.

                          Comment

                          • Dannyx
                            CertifiedAxhole
                            • Aug 2016
                            • 3912
                            • Romania

                            #213
                            Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                            Does anyone on this board happen to have a Weller ET series soldering station ? I cannot find anything about the inner diameter of the tips. They SEEM to match my cheapy Gordak 900m knockoff. The tips for the Weller look like this.
                            Wattevah...

                            Comment

                            • stj
                              Great Sage 齊天大聖
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 30932
                              • Albion

                              #214
                              Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                              those may be solid and not hollow.

                              Comment

                              • Dannyx
                                CertifiedAxhole
                                • Aug 2016
                                • 3912
                                • Romania

                                #215
                                Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                                Originally posted by stj
                                those may be solid and not hollow.
                                I feared too myself, but THIS article makes me think they're hollow (notice how the element goes inside the tip piece - at least that's how I see it.....). This would open up the possibility of using decent quality tips on my low end iron....which may not necessarily yield the best results in the end, but better than nothing.......
                                Wattevah...

                                Comment

                                • stj
                                  Great Sage 齊天大聖
                                  • Dec 2009
                                  • 30932
                                  • Albion

                                  #216
                                  Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                                  that's interesting, the element is on the outside and the thermocouple is in the center!

                                  gotta say though, if you need a webpage full of pictures to change a tip, you probably shouldnt be using the iron!

                                  Comment

                                  • Dannyx
                                    CertifiedAxhole
                                    • Aug 2016
                                    • 3912
                                    • Romania

                                    #217
                                    Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                                    If it turns out the ET series iron is similar to my cheapy Gordak, it opens up the possibility of using an ET to LT adapter, which are these stubby tips for the LT series....apparently Weller thought of this and made an adapter....that's right: a soldering tip ADAPTER !

                                    Sadly, it looks to me the retaining sleeve is shorter on my Gordak and the nut may not match either, at least without any official dimensions and no other points of reference in any of the pics I found so far....I can't believe they do not provide this sort of info. I guess to prevent this sort of attempted "cross-compatibility"
                                    Wattevah...

                                    Comment

                                    • stj
                                      Great Sage 齊天大聖
                                      • Dec 2009
                                      • 30932
                                      • Albion

                                      #218
                                      Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                                      try ali-express for a clone weller handle

                                      Comment

                                      • Dannyx
                                        CertifiedAxhole
                                        • Aug 2016
                                        • 3912
                                        • Romania

                                        #219
                                        Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                                        Originally posted by stj
                                        try ali-express for a clone weller handle
                                        Yeah but it'd have to match my Gordak which involves a bit too much work figuring out the pins and voltage and that....
                                        Wattevah...

                                        Comment

                                        • stj
                                          Great Sage 齊天大聖
                                          • Dec 2009
                                          • 30932
                                          • Albion

                                          #220
                                          Re: Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

                                          if they both use K type sensors then it's easy, i know a guy who put a xytronics handle on a gordak by just re-wiring the plug - the xytronics iron actually had the right one - just wired different.

                                          Comment

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