prefered solder paste and 858D review

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

In the US, they sort-of do. Depends on the appliance/device really. Things like lamps, hair dryers, space heaters, toaster ovens, toasters, coffee makers, and etc. will usually use a keyed 2-prong cord (not sure if that is the correct term here) - i.e. prong can be inserted only one way in the plug. Things like small cell phone chargers, non-grounded laptop chargers, and other small, fully-isolated electronics will usually have a non-keyed 2-prong cord (Live and Neutral can be swapped). And then there are the appliances/devices that use the 3-prong grounded cord. Like the keyed 2-prong cord, you can insert the plug only one way. This allows manufacturers to use a SPST switch and place the fuse on the Live rather than the Neutral.

With the Schuko plug, it's a different story, particularly the one used in Southern and Eastern Europe, because Live and Neutral can be reversed on both grounded and non-grounded plugs.

I was had the hope, that the ones who shown such passion over this technical detail they would activate their head in finding by them self's these answers.
Especially when it comes down to fuse protection of just a transformer.

@momaka your explanation is far better than wikipedia

[budm]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

"will usually use a keyed 2-prong cord (not sure if that is the correct term here)" it is NEMA 1-15P. You are allowed to use NEMA 1-15P non-polarized if the un-grounded device is rated as Double insulated.
"This allows manufacturers to use a SPST switch and place the fuse on the Live rather than the Neutral." You always put the switch on the Line (Hot) side, see you wall switch in the house.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector
http://www.nema.org/pages/default.aspx
http://www.nema.org/Standards/About-...-Standard.aspx

"Since when AC plugs have polarity restrictions?" So now you learn something.


"Yes we in Europe and in USA plus Japan and ASIA, we are stupid.
UK is exluded even if they are driving in the wrong side of the road."

Left driving countries

Anguilla

Antigua and Barbuda

Australia

Bahamas

Bangladesh

Barbados

Bermuda

Bhutan

Bophuthatswana

Botswana

British Virgin Islands

Brunei

Cayman Islands

Channel Islands

Ciskei

Cyprus

Dominica

Falkland Islands

Fiji

Grenada

Guyana

Hong Kong

India

Indonesia

Ireland

Jamaica

Japan

Kenya

Lesotho

Macau

Malawi

Malaysia

Malta

Mauritius

Montserrat

Mozambique

Namibia

Nepal

New Zealand

Pakistan

Papua

New Guinea

St. Vincent and Grenadines

Seychelles

Sikkim

Singapore

Solomon Islands

Somalia

South Africa

Sri Lanka

St Kitts and Nevis

St. Helena

St. Lucia

Surinam

Swaziland

Tanzania

Thailand

Tonga

Trinidad and Tobago

Uganda

United Kingdom

US Virgin Islands

Venda

Zambia

Zimbabwe

[tom66]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

BS1363 (UK plug) is, in my opinion, the best designed AC power plug in the world.

- Impossible to insert incorrectly into socket. Live/Neutral orientation ensured.
- Paperclip/metal object can never touch a live conductor by pushing between plug and socket.
- Impossible to access live/neutral without plug activating shutter.
- Safety earth integral to design.
- Fuse built in for cable, plug and socket protection.
- If pulling the lead out with great force: the first wire to break is live, followed by neutral, followed by earth.
- Can be wired by a five year old. Wiring a plug is (or was?) part of the GCSE Science curriculum.

Aside from the immense pain of stepping on one the wrong way up, that is...

[domas]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

good thing about BS1363 is that it can also take ungrounded generic EU 2-prong plug with thin leads

well, you do need something thin to push the ground contact switch though

been to london few days ago so had to make this 'hack'

[clearchris]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

Momaka:

Ah, so the heater is run off line voltage. So the transformer is fine.

Wire undersizing onthis particular item doesn't worry me as much given that I doubt Ill have it on for more than a few minutes at a time. If you assume a low duty cycle, small wire doesn't look as bad.

I have run 6awg wire to the wall for an appliance only to open up the appliance and see 14awg and smaller inside.

True, the switch and magnet are cheap, but examples abound about cost cutting to save a few pennies, and many can be found right here on badcaps.net.

Ill have to open up the case and look again at the wiring and the fuse. Sounds like the standards differ worldwide and they could have messed up the one for the US market.

[clearchris]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

Here's what I'm using it for today:



Ill let you guess which was first and second attempt.

And here is where it is going:



Speaking of cost cutting, this was a pretty expensive board when i bought it 4-5 years ago. How much could a minipci connector cost, 50 cents?

[tom66]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

A big connector like that in medium quantity could easily eat up $10 to $15 of the BOM.

I recall talking to an automotive systems engineer who told me one of the largest costs in a car, after the frame, is the wiring bundles and connector assemblies - automotive rated connectors are not cheap and a lot of R&D money is spent on reducing the wiring size/length and number of connectors.

[clearchris]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

Wow, I figured it was saving around 2$ max including assembly.

10-15 is more reasonable to lose the part.

Auto connectors are the bane of my existence. Who knew they paid so much for them.

[budm]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

"Ill have to open up the case and look again at the wiring and the fuse. Sounds like the standards differ worldwide and they could have messed up the one for the US market."
Yes, you should check, see if it also has UL Exxxx (then you can look up at UL web site) on the unit if this unit is UL compliance or has fake UL listing.
Also check the safety ground wire to see how it is connected.

http://www.incompliancemag.com/

Faults

The first question that must be addressed is: What fault protection is the fuse providing?

There are two kinds of faults: (1) phase-to-neutral (pole-to-pole) and (2) phase-to-ground.

(Note that a fuse cannot provide protection for a neutral-to-ground fault because, by definition, the neutral is grounded. In a neutral-to-ground fault, the neutral and ground conductors become parallel conductors. In accordance with Kirchoff’s Laws, the current in the neutral goes down, not up. Hence, the over-current does not occur, and a fuse cannot provide protection).

Single Fusing

A single fuse in the phase conductor provides protection for both kinds of faults.

A single fuse in the neutral conductor provides protection for neutral-to-phase faults, but not for phase-to-ground faults. This is one reason why a single fuse in the neutral is not permitted.

[clearchris]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

No fake UL listing. It does have a super-snazzy holographic "passed q.c." label though.

Ground wire is attached to the base of the transformer, which is mounted on the metal case. Would have been nice to have grounded the handpiece, but that could cause problems with ESD?

It does have a 3 prong plug, so you know which line is hot and which is neutral. Black (assumed hot) goes straight to the toggle switch, then to the board. White goes to the fuse, then the board as red. Fuse is a fast blow 6a 250v fuse.

I'm going to probably rewire this as hot to fuse, to switch, to board. Its nice to have a fuse between your finger and hot. Not that I haven't juiced myself before, but it has been a comfortably long time. Id like to keep it that way.

[budm]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

Black is Hot (Line), White is Neutral, Green (or Green with Yellow stripe) is the safety ground. Your unit uses NEMA 5-15P for the plug.
Incoming AC line Hot should go to the fuse first, then to the switch, then the load.
Since the heater is mounted in the metal nozzle, if the Hot wire or heating element makes contact with the nozzel, then you know what will happen if you make contact with the nozzel right? But hard ground is not recommended for ESD protection, you use High Meg resistor in stead to ground the nozzel. It should show in your manual is this unit is ESD protected or not. You should have anti-static mat on your work bench.
http://www.polarinstruments.com/supp...ts/AP8500.html

[clearchris]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

Black is Hot (Line), White is Neutral, Green (or Green with Yellow stripe) is the safety ground.

Or it should be. I trust nothing if I don't verify it first. They might have gotten a deal on some functional, but wrong colored cords. I have seen worse.

Incoming AC line Hot should go to the fuse first, then to the switch, then the load.
Since the heater is mounted in the metal nozzle, if the Hot wire or heating element makes contact with the nozzel, then you know what will happen if you make contact with the nozzel right?

Zzzzzzzzap! And probably SIZZLE too as I get burned from the heat. Such excitement in my otherwise dull life.

Livin on the edge soldering chips!

[budm]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

"I trust nothing if I don't verify it first" That is always a good practice. So what does it have on the UL number? I can log into UL website to find out who actually make this unit.

[momaka]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

I trust nothing if I don't verify it first.

Good.

That's how I always think, especially with these Chinese soldering stations. I have a KADA 852D+, an while mine came with a US 3 prong plug, the transformer inside was meant for 220V rather than 120V. No wonder the numbers on the display would be all over the place. Not to mention the 24V iron was way underpowered - couldn't even melt leaded solder with the temperature knob cranked on max. Luckily, I found a very similar spare 220V transformer and wired its primary in parallel with the one in the station and the secondary in series with the secondary of the installed transformer. Now it's a proper 120V station!

[clearchris]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

Budm: Ha. there's no ul listing at all.

Momaka: I hate to say it, but in general i have had good luck ordering from china. However, Id never get a multifunction unit - too many things to go wrong. Id rather have 2 standalone units. Less complexity. Sounds like at the factory there are a few guys on benches with buckets of parts assembling these for multiple destinations. Impressive repair though, i wouldnt have thought to do that.

[budm]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

"@momaka your explanation is far better than wikipedia"
Again, failed to read at the bottom of the page where the refs are from to verify the info:
References[edit] ANSI/NEMA WD–6 Wiring Devices Dimensional Specifications, Hubbell Twist-Lock Wiring Devices and Safety Enclosures,

^ Jump up to: a b c ANSI/NEMA WD–6 Wiring Devices Dimensional Specifications
Jump up ^ http://www.webcitation.org/5nbLseFj6
Jump up ^ Template:Hubbell catalog, NEMA 2
Jump up ^ http://www.stayonline.com/reference-...ght-blade.aspx
Jump up ^ Tamper-Resistant Receptacles — A Successful Adoption, retrieved 19 November 2013
Jump up ^ Child outlet safety, archived from the original on 22 January 2009, retrieved 21 January 2009
Jump up ^ Drew Campbell Technical Film and Tv for Nontechnical People, Skyhorse Publishing Inc., 2002 ISBN 1581159986 Chapter 9
Jump up ^ Campbell, Drew (2002). Technical Film and TV for Nontechnical People. Allworth. p. 133. ISBN 1-58115-229-9. Retrieved 2010-02-16.
Jump up ^ Box, Harry C. (2003). Set Lighting Technician's Handbook: Film Lighting Equipment, Practice, and Electrical Distribution (3rd ed.). Focal. p. 20. ISBN 0-240-80495-3. Retrieved 2010-02-16.
Jump up ^ "TeslaMotors.com: Go Electric - Ready, Set, Charge". Tesla Motors, Inc. Retrieved 7 June 2013.
Jump up ^ Hubbell Corporate History
Jump up ^ Hubbell Corporate History
Jump up ^ Hubbell Twist-Lock Wiring Devices and Safety Enclosures
Jump up ^ "Tamper Resistant Receptacles: The New Standard of Electrical Safety". Hubbell Wiring Systems. Retrieved 18 October 2009.
^ Jump up to: a b "GFCIs Fact Sheet". US Consumer Product Safety Commission. Retrieved 2010-05-04.
^ Jump up to: a b "Tamper-Resistant Electrical Receptacles". National Fire Protection Association. Retrieved 18 October 2009.
Jump up ^ "Frequently Asked Questions". Child Safety Outlet. Retrieved 18 October 2009.
Jump up ^ "Hospital Grade Devices: Tamper Resistant Receptacles". Pass and Seymour Legrand. Retrieved 18 October 2009.
Jump up ^ Books.Google.com
Jump up ^ Winnipeg.ca
Jump up ^ "History". Hubbell. 2009. Retrieved 20 March 2010.
Jump up ^ Crist (2005). "Sockets" (tutorial). Mosaic shades. Retrieved 14 September 2007.
Jump up ^

Ah, and YOUTUBE is the reliable resource, eh.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

Luckily, I found a very similar spare 220V transformer and wired its primary in parallel with the one in the station and the secondary in series with the secondary of the installed transformer. Now it's a proper 120V station!

This information worth 200$ in the stock market of knowledge.
Congratulations !!

[momaka]

Re: prefered solder paste and 858D review

This information worth 200$ in the stock market of knowledge.
Congratulations !!

Hehe, I know I did nothing extraordinary here. But just saying it's an option if you do happen to have the parts. Actually, what happened is that a friend of mine had a bunch of irons with 230V transformerns and he replaced them with 120V transformers. Didn't know what to do with the 230V transformers, so he gave them to me .

200$ knowledge - no. But fixing up a soldering station that I got for free along with the transformers - priceless .