Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

[liukuohao]

Hi everyone,

I bought the new capacitor kit from badcaps.net store few months ago, but did not have the chance to recap it. But now, I took some time off from my busy schedule and took some quality time in recapping this motherboard that I seldom used.

As the title said it all, one of the capacitor soldering pad was damaged, or ripped off. Since this the "-" negative lead of the capacitor, and also I have checked ALL "-" negative leads of the capacitors for Voltage Regulator Module (VRM) is connected to ground rail using a multimeter. Meaning, the 3 units of 3300uF 6.3V capacitor are connected in parallel.

So, my question is....can I solder a copper wire from point "B" to negative "-" lead of other capacitors, say point C or A?

Please see the attached picture.

[selldoor]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Yes - perhaps leave the legs long bend over and solder together.
One might each but cant tell from the picture.
They would need to be insulated as would a piece of wire, just in case it ever
got pushed onto the positive between the two.

[liukuohao]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Yes - perhaps leave the legs long bend over and solder together.
One might each but cant tell from the picture.
They would need to be insulated as would a piece of wire, just in case it ever
got pushed onto the positive between the two.

Thank you for your advice.
I have soldered a piece of insulated copper wire from A to B and also another
piece of insulated copper wire from B to C as shown on the diagram that
I attached earlier.

Unfortunately, the motherboard still behaving the same symptom BEFORE
recapping and AFTER recapping.

I have recapped all the capacitors near VRM of the CPU socket.
I have recapped all the capacitors near VRM of the DIMM memory slots.

The symptom is....
When the motherboard boots up, the CPU fan will spin after about 1 second,
it just stops, I have to switch off the PSU power switch to off and on again,
before I can boot the system up.

Question
Should I continue recap the rest of the 11 capacitors?
or should I just give up and buy a second hand one from eBay.
Since I put in a lot of hours in getting this motherboard fix.

Thank you.

[liukuohao]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Hi All,

I guess after 91 viewers reading my thread and no one respond to my question means that
I really screwed up this recap work. So I guess I can kiss this motherboard good bye and search for another 2nd one on eBay store.

[selldoor]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

I dont think it means you screwed up - if you read up on Asus motherboards they have a sudden death syndrome. Quite a few people have replaced all the caps only to find it still doesnt work. Not sure I would go for another Asus of the same sort - if you can get another that fits your other parts.
If you were working with the cmos battery still in pl;ace maybe try removing that for an hour or so then replace and try again.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Sounds like it could be bad caps in the PSU.

[liukuohao]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Sounds like it could be bad caps in the PSU.

Definitely not, because I have try 2 different PSUs, and yet the motherboard
still cannot fired up, it will just start and stop after running about 1 or 2 second.
You will see the CPU HSF spins, then stops.

Currently I am using a Thermaltake toughpower 850W PSU which cost me
a lot those day. And I would not think this PSU is using cheap capacitors.

The other I used to test is a cheap Coolermaster 650W PSU.

I am suspecting that the BIOS chip is somehow corrupted or somehow I feel
something is shorted to ground, which caused the PSU to cut the power off.

[Sparkey55]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Thank you for your advice.
I have soldered a piece of insulated copper wire from A to B and also another
piece of insulated copper wire from B to C as shown on the diagram that
I attached earlier.

Unfortunately, the motherboard still behaving the same symptom BEFORE
recapping and AFTER recapping.

I have recapped all the capacitors near VRM of the CPU socket.
I have recapped all the capacitors near VRM of the DIMM memory slots.

The symptom is....
When the motherboard boots up, the CPU fan will spin after about 1 second,
it just stops, I have to switch off the PSU power switch to off and on again,
before I can boot the system up.

Question
Should I continue recap the rest of the 11 capacitors?
or should I just give up and buy a second hand one from eBay.
Since I put in a lot of hours in getting this motherboard fix.

Thank you.

From the looks of that soldering job you need to have some more practice with old dead boards before attempting repairs on good boards.

[liukuohao]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

From the looks of that soldering job you need to have some more practice with old dead boards before attempting repairs on good boards.

Yes, I know, the soldering job was not an excellent job, but hey, I have not
held a soldering iron and did some serious soldering for a long time, I think over
ten years, as usual, I was a bit rusty in doing it.

[liukuohao]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Guys,

I am thinking of getting a MSI MS-7061 motherboard from a local eBay seller at my country,
just to settle this problem once and for all.

Link: http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/AMD-mainb...item258857d569

Has anyone from the forum, got any bad experience about this motherboard?

I cannot tell what kind of capacitors that the motherboard is using.

I can tell the VRMs has passive heat sink on them, which may suggest the motherboard
can be a durable since the heat generated from the MOSFETS is better dissipated than
those motherboard that does not have any. Any opinion?

Thank you.

[momaka]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

The symptom is....
When the motherboard boots up, the CPU fan will spin after about 1 second,
it just stops, I have to switch off the PSU power switch to off and on again,
before I can boot the system up.

Those symptoms are typical for a short circuit on the motherboard (usually shorted MOSFET in one of the buck converters - i.e. VRMs). If you have a multimeter and some willingness/time, we can troubleshoot it. Sometimes it's easy to fix this issue, other times a little more challenging.

Also, from what I understand from you, these symptoms were present before you even attempted recapping the motherboard?
...
As for the MSI motherboard on eBay, I see that the caps on the picture appear to have an "X" vent and are blue with gold stripe. This suggests OST caps, which aren't really that great. I know some newer MSI motherboards use Teapo, and Chemicon KZG - both of which are equally crappy as OST. But sometimes, MSI do their motherboards all with Rubycon/Panasonic which are really good caps. So I think it's a bit of a lottery what you get.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

It sounds like it boots after power cycling, thus, sounds like a bad cap or solder joint.

And that board on eBay looks rather cheapo!

[momaka]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

It sounds like it boots after power cycling, thus, sounds like a bad cap or solder joint.

No. Read the symptoms again.

If the fans turn and stop and there's no way to start the computer again unless you unplug the PSU, that means the PSU has detected a short circuit or over current and is shutting down.

And if this problem has been happening before the OP changed the caps, it certainly had nothing to do with capacitors in the first place.

[liukuohao]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Those symptoms are typical for a short circuit on the motherboard (usually shorted MOSFET in one of the buck converters - i.e. VRMs). If you have a multimeter and some willingness/time, we can troubleshoot it. Sometimes it's easy to fix this issue, other times a little more challenging.

Also, from what I understand from you, these symptoms were present before you even attempted recapping the motherboard?
...
As for the MSI motherboard on eBay, I see that the caps on the picture appear to have an "X" vent and are blue with gold stripe. This suggests OST caps, which aren't really that great. I know some newer MSI motherboards use Teapo, and Chemicon KZG - both of which are equally crappy as OST. But sometimes, MSI do their motherboards all with Rubycon/Panasonic which are really good caps. So I think it's a bit of a lottery what you get.

Hi momaka,

Thank you for your input, do appreciate your help and time here.

Yes, the motherboard did have the issue of momentarily shut down
when power is turned on, **before** recapping the capacitors took place.
It seems to be a common problem from this motherboard.

Your comment seems to give some hope in reviving my doomed ASUS A7N8X-E motherboard.

I do indeed have Multimeter. Is there any good reading reference, to point me the direction
of learning about troubleshooting MOSEFETs in the forum?

If say one of the MOSEFETs is faulty or short to ground how on EARTH that
I am going replace with?

Would you care to eloborate more?

Thank you.

As with the MSI motherboard, frankly, I don't have much choice here, do I ?
Given that it is very old socket 462 motherboard, I cannot afford to choose not to buy because
the motherboard is using lousy OST capacitors? Right? Although they are using OST caps,
at least the MOSFETS have heatsinks on them. Then perhaps, I will get more good caps from
badcaps.net and replace all those crappy OST caps.

[momaka]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

I do indeed have Multimeter.

Good. Is it manual or auto -ranging?
In case you're not very familiar with how to use it, here is a video showing how to use an auto multimter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU

Is there any good reading reference, to point me the direction of learning about troubleshooting MOSEFETs in the forum?

There may be a few, but I wasn't able to find any with the search.
Either way, it's very easy. The tricky part is to figure out which MOSFETs actually give bad readings, since they are installed on the motherboard. Because of this, some of them may appear shorted due to other components without actually being faulty (but I will elaborate on this as we).

Before we check any MOSFETs, though, first lets run a few tests which may narrow down the problem...
Remove motherboard from case and disconnect it from the PSU. Next, familiarize yourself with the 20-pin ATX connector. Here is a picture from the web that shows all of the pins:
http://image.pinout.net/pinout_netwo...atx-pinout.gif
Note where these pins are on your connector.

After this, measure resistance between the following points below on the ATX connector. Record all measurements and post them here. Also, if you have a manual multimeter, use lowest resistance scale (usually 200 Ohms, but check) when measuring the resistance. If you have an auto multimter, pay particular attention to the measurement units (i.e. whether they are Ohms, KOhms, MOhms, etc. - this matters A LOT).
Regardless of whether you have auto or manual multimter, always state the units after each measurement.

Points on the ATX connector between which to measure resistance
- red (+) multimter probe on 12V rail pin and black (-) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)
- red (+) multimter probe on 5V rail pin and black (-) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)
- red (+) multimter probe on 3.3V rail pin and black (-) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)
- black (-) multimter probe on -5V rail pin and red (+) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)
- black (-) multimter probe on -12V rail pin and red (+) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)

The above test will tell us if any of the main rails on the motherboard are shorted. This makes it a little easier to narrow down which MOSFET could be the problem.

If say one of the MOSEFETs is faulty or short to ground how on EARTH that I am going replace with?

First, check the part number on the MOSFET. Next, find the data sheet for it (or post its number here if you can't find a data sheet and we may be able to help). Finally, check specs in data sheet and find an equivalent replacement.

After this, you can either buy a new replacement MOSFET or scavenge on from other dead/scrap motherboards. I do the latter as I have a lot of scrap Xbox 360 motherboards.

As with the MSI motherboard, frankly, I don't have much choice here, do I ?

Well, like I said - you may get it with good caps or you may not. Personally, I don't turn down a motherboard just because of bad caps. I know a few very well designed motherboards that use crappy capacitors (P4SD from HP D530 and DC5000 PCs come to mind). Once recapped, they work and perform solid. MSI usually make good motherboards, too. So if you get one with bad caps, just recap it with quality capacitors and it will be good as new again.

[liukuohao]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Hi momaka,

Thank you for replying my question.

I was about give up and put the motherboard to rest for good.
And go and buy the MSI motherboard from eBay, but your came
in right in time. So, oh well....may as well give it try....I have got
nothing to loose.

My multimeter is a cheap one, it does not have auto-ranging function
available on it. Unless, I go out spend $$$ and buy it a new one.

I have attached a diagram for your observation.

To me I think pin 6 of +5v rail is screwed?!!!, may be or may be not,
because the reading the resistance to ground is very very small.
So small that my multimeter just cannot read detect it.

If the this +5v rail is shorted to ground, then that will be the end of the
whole story, right? I can throw this motherboard away for good?

[liukuohao]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Hi guys,

Since no one is forum reply my my post.
May be this will.....

I have another motherboard- Intel D865GLC Micro ATX motherboard.
This motherboard does not do POST when power is turned on.
When power button is pushed in and released, nothing happened.

I suspect this motherboard is having bad capacitors.
Because it is using:

Chemicon's KZE series caps 16V 1200uf = 4 units
Chemicon's KZG series caps 6.3v 820uf = 5 units

Attached is the resistance reading on the motherboard's ATX socket.

As you can see
+12v(p10) --(+)-- ohm meter --(-)-- GND(p13) = reading is open circuit

+3.3v(p1) --(+)-- ohm meter --(-)-- GND(p13) = reading is open circuit
+3.3v(p2) --(+)-- ohm meter --(-)-- GND(p13) = reading is open circuit

+5v(p4) --(+)-- ohm meter --(-)-- GND(p13) = reading is open circuit
+5v(p6) --(+)-- ohm meter --(-)-- GND(p13) = reading is open circuit
+5vsb(p9) --(+)-- ohm meter --(-)-- GND(p13) = reading is 0.3, 0.2, 0.1, 0.0 ohm
+5v(p20) --(+)-- ohm meter --(-)-- GND(p13) = reading is open circuit
+5v(p19) --(+)-- ohm meter --(-)-- GND(p13) = reading is open circuit

-12v(p12) --(-)-- ohm --(+)-- GND(p13) = reading is open circuit
-5v(p12) --(-)-- ohm --(+)-- GND(p13) = reading is open circuit

(-) -ve probe
(+) +ve probe

So, by comparing the 2 motherboards' reading(D865GLC & A7N8X-E),
can I conclude that my ASUS A7N8X-E motherboard is basically unrepairable.
Since most of the +3.3v, +5v & +12v rails are short-ciruited.

Your advice is much appreciated here.

Thank you.

[tron]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

KZE is good, if smps has not
boiled them with excessive ripple

[momaka]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Sorry, I've had classes in the last few days and not much time to respond.

Continuing with the ASUS motherboard...

I have attached a diagram for your observation.

There's no way all of the rails would have readings like that. Moreover, if the +5VSB really had 28.3 Ohms as you wrote in your diagram, the fans on the motherboard would NOT even pulse like they do.

I advise you re-do these measurements or double-check that you are using your multimeter properly.

Again, measure all resistances using the lowest resistance scale - i.e. usually 200 Ohms, NOT 2000 or 2k, 20k, and 2M. Also, give the multimeter at least 3-5 seconds for the numbers on the screen to settle down. And again, make sure the PSU is DISCONNECTED from the motherboard.

If you are absolutely sure that you are doing everything right and you still get the same results, then do the following:

Set multimter to continuity or diode test (i.e. "BEEP" mode) - these two are usually integrated on cheaper manual multimeters. Then, do just like you did with the resistance measurements... that is:
- red (+) multimter probe on 12V rail pin and black (-) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)
- red (+) multimter probe on 5V rail pin and black (-) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)
- red (+) multimter probe on 3.3V rail pin and black (-) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)
- black (-) multimter probe on -5V rail pin and red (+) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)
- black (-) multimter probe on -12V rail pin and red (+) multimeter probe on ground pin (any ground pin is fine)

So, by comparing the 2 motherboards' reading(D865GLC & A7N8X-E),
can I conclude that my ASUS A7N8X-E motherboard is basically unrepairable.

Not really.

Like I said, the symptoms of your ASUS motherboard indicate there is a short somewhere. This is usually a much easier fix. You just have to test all power-related components to find where the fault is. We start at the ATX connector to possibly narrow it down where the fault might be. If all of the readings on ATX connector appear fine, then we move on to testing individual MOSFETs in different sections of the motherboard. There's the CPU VRM, RAM VRM, and usually a bunch of other linear VRMs such as Northbridge, AGP, Southbridge, and RAM Vtt.

Now if you had "spinning fans but no video" and the caps were good, then this can be anything (IMO way harder to fix than "twitches fans and dies").

[liukuohao]

Re: Asus A7N8X-E recapping work-capacitor soldering pad got ripped/damaged-need help

Hi,

Thanks for follow up.
As you did not reply, I took the liberty to remove all the new capacitors
which I earlier installed and use it for another repair job later.

I have decided to buy another replacement motherboard from the eBay
seller. I believe is not worth the time to salvage this motherboard.

I have decided to end this repair job for good. Simply, because I believe this A7N8X-E
motherboard is gone over the line, unrepairable. As you may
somewhat agree with me, because you did state that in your opinion, seeing
a motherboard boots up for 1-2 seconds and stops, in your experience the
faulty component is difficult to pin point.

As you can see the +12v, +5v, +3.3v rails, some rails shown, there is
something damaged/shorted (as the multimeter shown to have small resistance value)
If the motherboard is healthy, the readings should be Open Circuit for all rails.
I came to this conclusion since I did a same testing on my problematic (unbootable)
Intel D865GLC motherboard. As you can see earlier in my thread, this motherboard
have all its rails, showing resistance value = Zero (open circuit) except for pin 6 = +5v
rail has a very small value of resistance, but my multimeter was not able to display
the actual value.

There's no way all of the rails would have readings like that. Moreover, if the +5VSB really had 28.3 Ohms as you wrote in your diagram, the fans on the motherboard would NOT even pulse like they do.

I advise you re-do these measurements or double-check that you are using your multimeter properly.

I will redo the measurement, in fact I will take a photo of the reading on my
multimeter. Also, the multimeter is the to the lowest range (cannot go further than that)