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**etnietering** · 10-05-2009, 04:03 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

The Nichicon HE will probably be ok for a while, e.g. to make sure the board isn't totally fried, but I would replace it with something else if you plan on actually using it again. I recommend Panasonic FM from digikey, or Nichicon HZ from Mouser. You might be able to reuse the HE though, if you plan on recapping the power supply.
Good luck!

**c_hegge** · 10-05-2009, 07:06 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

I'd use Panasonic FJ, Ruby MBZ, Another Nichicon HM (As long as it's newer than 2005 date code) or Sanyo WG as they are all equivilant ESR and ripple to HM. Your HM probably had a bad date code (before 2005) or was popped by the PSU.

Also, check for any Chemi-con KZG caps around the CPU socket. I've seen them vented on a few Gigabyte Skt. 939 Motherboards

**PCBONEZ** · 10-05-2009, 07:46 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

As mildy referenced:
Nichicon HN and HM series made from sometime in 2001 thru sometime in 2004 were defective. Those with date codes of 2005 or newer are fine.
Date code is - letter + 2 digit year + 2 digit week of year, as so:
H0322 - would be week 22 of year 2003.
-
Yes, Chemicon KZG will fail with no bloating. They don't like heat.
[And a bad power supply can heat 'em right up.]
-
I also agree with c_hegge as recommended replacements.
Adding Panasonic FL to the list.
-
FM is more ESR and less Ripple than HM. [Worse but not as worse as HE.]
-
Rubycon MCZ, or Nichicon HN are a grade better than all of the above for ESR/Ripple.
HZ is a grade better yet but uncommon and so reliability is unknown.

Badcaps.net has Rubycon.
https://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=22

Mouser sells HN and HM again. [They quit for a while after the fiasco.]

Any of the above can be found on eBay but be advised there are a lot of counterfeit Sanyos [and some counterfeit other] coming out of Hong Kong and China.
.

**lmcancu** · 10-09-2009, 10:29 AM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

Thanks everyone. I replaced the bad cap with the HE cap and all is well now. There are no other broken parts except for the cap. That was a lucky one. So I only lost a power supply.

**Toasty** · 10-09-2009, 01:19 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

>>I'd use Panasonic FJ...<<
>>Adding Panasonic FL to the list.<<

@c_hegge & PCBONEZ -
Neither series exist in current production. Panasonic's 2/2009 production catalog doesn't show them. Digikey doesn't list either series.

Perhaps an older variety that is NLA?

@lmcancu -
>>So I only lost a power supply.<<
So far...

You only replaced 1 cap? By using a higher ESR and ripple rated cap (HE), you may be transferring the load onto the other caps (HM) in the circuit. If there are others in parallel with it, they have the lower resistance and higher ripple handling and will take on more than they had been handling originally.

I would seriously look at recapping that board correctly in the near future.
Tomorrow's a good day.

Hope it holds!
Toast

EDIT: Where was this cap located? Next to CPU?

**PCBONEZ** · 10-09-2009, 02:55 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

Wrong guess Toasty, it's all marketing.
Panasonic's Catalog has NEVER showed either one and here's why:
-
FJ and FL were never released/sold -except- directly to manufacturing channels.
- They don't go to distributors for resale.
Unless you buy in 100's of thousands on a contract Panasonic won't sell them to you.

Any you find for sale are some factory's overstock or some company that decided to make a little extra $ on the side being a distributor without Panasonic's approval.

Data sheets are only available as Engineering Draft documents which are 20-30 pages long and are never released to the public.

I have the one for FJ but it exceeds the upload size limit here at BCN.
I've found the specs for a few random FL in schematics and ads and so far they've matched FJ in so far as Ripple and ESR.
[I'm not sure what the difference is, maybe Endurance Lifetime or Leakage. ??]

FJ and FL both still show up in new Dells with Intel/Foxconn boards so I doubt they are out of production.
.

**PCBONEZ** · 10-09-2009, 03:00 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

And for the record. A ball-park or thumb-rule or whatever.

Panny FJ in 10mm are an exact match to MBZ for Ripple and ESR.
Panny FJ in 8mm are an exact match to MBZ for Ripple but the ESR is lower [better] and is about 1/2 way between MBZ and MCZ.
~ That assumes the same can size of course...

**Toasty** · 10-09-2009, 03:51 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

Good info. Thank you for the clarification.

I too have the FJ datasheet, but lacking suppliers other than eBay's egekecu, PCMCS, and leemoom611, there's no reliable source, is there?. Certainly not one with reliable spec information. The one's I've seen for sale are missing either Z or ripple info. (or both)

A statement to use such components, I think, is misleading/misguided here. At least without validation of a source and a "I've used them and they're great" statement.

Purchasing them from reputable distributors such as Digikey, Mouser, RS, Farnell, Newark, et al. gives the customer a more secure feeling about the quality. They handle enough of them and have their info sources (industrial as well as the other distributors) that alert to component problems sooner than we would hear about. As you said, Mouser dropped the HN & HM lines when the cap problems arose.

**Toasty** · 10-09-2009, 03:59 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

I did a quick look about and found info about this board and the caps on a review site:

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/mainbo...9-nforce3.html

"The 6-phase switching voltage regulator of the processor incorporates six 3300 uF capacitors and seven 1000 uF capacitors. The board also contains voltage regulators for AGP bus (six 1000 uF capacitors) and for memory (six 1000 uF capacitors)."

With this info, I stand by my earlier comments about recapping the board properly.

Toast

**lmcancu** · 10-10-2009, 08:40 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

Thanks Toast! I was following etnietering's advice to use it to figure out if anything else went on the board. Right now I haven't put it in service yet and plan to keep this board as backup/spare, as this was my sister-in-law's board and she decided to upgrade after it went. I have the exact same board for my system. I plan to order the right parts from Mouser (Nichicon HM series). Note, that both the northbridge fan and the vga cooler fan went as well. I'm not sure if the fans went because of the power supply or the fans went first and caused the power supply to go. Also, I only replaced the one cap because it was the only one that was vented. The others looked fine and I'm leaning towards the power supply going bad and taking out the cap rather then the other way around since I had the same power supply (Antec truepower 380) go on my identical system. Note, I'm sure this cap was part of the AGP circuit since there was no display and it seemed like the other components were working well. And it kinda makes sense that the 12v fans were taken out. The VGA card seems fine and the display worked when I tried it. Thanks again.

**PCBONEZ** · 10-10-2009, 08:58 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

Antec Truepower -> Motherboard Killer!
Loaded with Fuhjyyu capacitors!

**linuxguru** · 10-11-2009, 07:30 AM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

FJ appears to have been replaced by FJS and FL over the last 3 years. IMHO, FJ was more durable than both FJS/FL, of which I've seen numerous slightly bulging examples, but none vented. There are pics in these forums showing vented FLs, so they're probably like KZG - won't tolerate heat and high ripple-current simultaneously. No FJ failure has been reported yet.

**PCBONEZ** · 10-11-2009, 09:59 AM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

If I've seen any, I've only seen bad FL in Dell Roaster ovens [USFF and SFF cases] but those -BURN UP- every kind of cap, even Rubycon.
-
Bad PSU's will also blow any kind of mobo cap so when you see a cap you wouldn't expect to blow you need to investigate further and find out what the PSU was.
-
Me too, I don't remember ever seeing a bad FJ.
.

**Newbie2** · 10-13-2009, 11:18 AM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

I have used Nichicon HE capacitors on motherboards without any issues.

**PCBONEZ** · 10-13-2009, 12:33 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

HE has it's applications but HE are rated way below HM and aren't suitable as replacements for HM.
- Unless the HM were over-kill in the first place, which does happen.

On average HE is rated for around 2/3 the Ripple of HM and the ESR is 3 to 4 times higher.

I certainly would not use HE in a VRM.
.

**c_hegge** · 10-13-2009, 02:53 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

I agree, HE are not good for VRM. I often use them in PSUs, though.

**Newbie2** · 10-14-2009, 05:49 PM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

I have used all Nichicon HE series capacitors on the CPU VRM area of my old VIA P4PA-UL motherboard, and for a couple of months now it's been running perfectly stable with no issues.

I agree Nichicon HE isn't the best for the CPU VRM, but I used them in one and it's so far working fine for me.

**lmcancu** · 10-15-2009, 07:57 AM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

Do you remember what the specs were for the original capacitors that you replaced? i.e. ESR and ripple ratings?

**lmcancu** · 10-17-2009, 06:43 AM

Re: Suitable replacement for Nichicon HM series?

I just saw that Toasty asked where the bad cap was. The cap is near the northbridge and the battery. See image below.

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