Announcement

**Rainbow** · 07-08-2006, 09:42 AM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

HEC is CRAP. One small HEC cap is responsible for most older EuroCase PSU failures.
These G-Luxons are known to fail on some boards - and it's accelerated by the heat.
You might have a shorted MOSFET now.

**Shroomie** · 07-08-2006, 05:17 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Ahh yes, OST and G-Luxon, like on every other ECS board known to man. Or at least to me... PCChips are the same way naturally. They're good budget boards, not for OCing though, once they're recapped, or else until the caps fail.

Definitely recap that PSU, yes.

Off topic a bit, how is the Zalman Flower treating you, and what CPU's under it?

**gonzo0815** · 07-08-2006, 06:47 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

HEC is apeshit in any way

. I vote for recap too

Regarding ECS, i have some A939 in a friend`s system, it has some Panasonic FJ at the VRM o/p. But the VRM I/P caps, the most stressfull part they`re installed some 3300uf 16v Ost caps.

But of course, the rest is full with small ost.
And no GSC, on that part i think even ECS had learned the lesson..

**tazwegion** · 07-08-2006, 08:38 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Naturally the GSC must go

Hmmmm... and HEC too!

If you're worried about sound generation... but wanna' improve airflow within the case, have you considered 7v modding some case fans?

**Rainbow** · 07-09-2006, 03:03 AM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

ECS never used GSC caps.

**gonzo0815** · 07-09-2006, 06:11 AM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Normaly they used G-luxon, from a practiall point of view there is not that mutch difference there.

**trodas** · 07-09-2006, 02:38 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Rainbow - you certainly know what are you talking about. The PSU run still, I tested on dummy load (make that thing for testing, only 1A per 3.3, 5 and 12V rails + switcher) and w/o load it generate awfull hi-pitch noise (a sign of caps unable to handle the ripple, I think) and on even very slight load (a old P133 mobo) it show big ripple on all rails...

Futhermore you are right and one the top mosfet is shorted, witch is a VERY bad news for me, as I need all the help I can get to obtain it - it is old one and dunno where to get it... 15N03L, as on picture bellow it is. Classic oldie type, 10x10mm big body - classic D2PAK stuff.
http://electronred.iespana.es/images...s/medd2pak.gif
Any help where to get one (or better 3 - I would like to add the 2 second to make their life easier, tought not sure if in entierly fanless machine is this a good idea - concerning the more generated heat...) or better substiture will be greatly appreciated

Shroomie - I was never OC this board. It run at 133x9 and that it is. VIA C3 is under the hood and why did not you check that already in the gamery link in the very first post? It might answer you all - and more

gonzo0815 - Pannyes FJ sounds great, however OST suxx and pre-filter with OST suxx twice more...

tazwegion - no GSC cap there, however all PSU full of HEC caps...

And no, there can't be one single fan. Ever. This is quiet (and I mean quiet!) machine. And pls save your breath arguing with me, that I can't hear quality fan at 7V. Yep, I do hear it so and it does bother me. Few fans come close to not hearing, yet at night I will, so - no chance. I live in VERY quiet place and I have a VERY good ears.
Futhermore this machine IS and always WAS designed as fanless and it will remain fanless, even if it burn

You should check my galery also to understand what I did to archive completely dead-quiet fanless machine that I can't hear even at night.

gonzo0815 - are really the G-LUXONs such utter crap as GSC ones?

Okay, now everyone relax, some pics comming. Todays I recapped the board completely:

And yep, traditionaly I removed LPT and COM port (getting pretty skilled at it!) - the second blue "COM" port is VGA output - no removing planed, hehe:

And this is the picture of the mosfet I need to obtain - please help!

...if I get there, I fill the empty spaces and we see how quality regulation we got then

I recapped even the 10uF caps, hehe. No, really, look:

Everything G-LUXON is gone, yet the board won't power anymore. Naturaly I added a bridging blocking 100nF caps under these there that give up (Vcore power filtering & support) and also I added these ceramics from bottom of the board again under the 6 Vcore caps

Now what went wrong? The 5V is shortcuted. I though - caps. Desoldered them, and checked them - and they aren't shortcuted. So, I soldered all the Pannyes and still - shortcut. Then I desoldered the top mosfet (the alone one on the second phase design, or what the hell this is...) and - 12, 32, 48, 62 ... all the way to aroun 300 ohms I getting as the caps charging. Correct now

So, it is the damn mosfet that give up when the caps give up.

And the caps give up because they fu*king suxx and also because the PSU use HEC caps witch are giving up after year of running fanless 24/7 and therefore recapping the Eurocase moded fanless PSU is now in order. The PSU containing:

Eurocase PSU
------------
2x 680uF 200V d22x46
1x 1000uF 16V d10
4x 1000uF 10V d10 (can be 6.3V)
3x 470uF 16V
2x 47uF 50V (max 23V on it)
2x 22uF 50V (max 11V on it)
1x 4.7uF 50V (max 5V on it)
4x 1uF 50V (max 0.16V on it)

All HEC ones. Most of the small ones are suitable to be replaced with 16V ones, I had mu doubts only about the 47uF one - a 25V might not be enought there as I run of the battery in my scope and therefore measuring only by the DMM and for example, accorging to DMM, on the 4.7uF one are only 3V top, while scope says that top spike is 5.04V ... Therefore from 23V it could be pretty well 28 or 30V and that it too much for 25V cap...

The small ones could be changed to SMD ceramics, IMHO. Maybe even the 22uF one as well. There is 47uF 16V ceramics from Tayo Yuden on Digi-Key too, but they can't hold the voltages there...

1000uF caps feel too small for me for proper PSU filtering anyway. I would suggest as big D10mm caps, as anyone can find. And bridge them with 100nF ceramic SMD from bottom too...

Now just get the mosfet and some caps for the PSU...

**Rainbow** · 07-09-2006, 04:08 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Check the MOSFET datasheet for Id and Rds(on). Then desolder any two equal or better MOSFETs from CPU VRM of a dead board and replace both.
And for the PSU - if it's that old type with no optocoupler, then you're VERY lucky that it didn't blew up yet. One of the 22uF/50V cap is critical for the auxiliary supply and these HECs go bad after about 2 years, the voltage for the control chip increases to the point that it dies, resulting often in more damage. I replace them with 47uF/63V caps.

**trodas** · 07-10-2006, 09:30 AM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Rainbow - hmmm, I must admit I have no idea where to even begin with - I mean with the cursed mosfet... It sure is Infineon (thx to the logo), but the 15N03L type in TO-263 package is pretty old suxxka...
And digi-key catalog did not return a thing.
Google return this:
http://www.infineon.com/cmc_upload/documents/058/498/
...however as you can check, the pdf is not found there anymore and above that, the search on the Infineon site for 15N03L did not return a thing...

The search for replacements looks like that:
15N03L=OptiMOS Power MOSFET, 30V, D2PAK, RDSon = 12.9mOhm, 42A, LL

IRL3103S - LL-NMOS 30V 64A 110W D2P <14mR(19mR/28A/4,5V) IR
or
FDB6030L=48A,30V

...and seems someone still get 'em: http://www.aeri.com/search/15N03L
But maybe it better to use the higher quality one?
And only one seems to blew up (apart there is no visual sign of that) from THERE. Yep, there are THERE of them and when I desolder the top one, the shortcut problems are gone, so I assume the rest could be good (it is just a assumption, tough - better get 3 ones...) ...

As far as the PSU goes, I think replace + add ceramic filtering caps is then in order...

**tazwegion** · 07-10-2006, 09:03 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Originally posted by Rainbow

ECS never used GSC caps.

Yup... a definite typo there!

I should've said all the

capacitors must go!

@ trodas... I understand what you mean about fan noise, I used to run 2 systems both of their CPU's were cooled by 'Delta tornados' which were audible two rooms away with the doors closed, those huge fanless heatpipe heatsinks scare me

**davmax** · 07-10-2006, 10:23 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Trodas the numbering system of MOSFETs is

First digits = current
N = N channal
03 =30V
L = Logic level input ( fully enhanced at 5 volts input)

Any 30Volt or higher MOSFET will do with a switch current greater than 15A and L spec.in a similar package. Looks like D2pak is closest.

**davmax** · 07-10-2006, 11:37 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

I got the last message off in a hurry. Please identify you MOSFET package.

D2pak the lead spacing is 5.08mm Package width about 10mm
Dpak it is 4.5mm package about 6.5mm

You would be well advised to replace all three MOSFET's and if possible with a better device.

I am sure many can assist findinga device for you, but package size is important.

Here is a link to a suitable D2pak device as an example: http://www.st.com/stonline/products/...stb45nf3ll.pdf

**trodas** · 07-11-2006, 01:26 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

tazwegion - well, bad caps is gone now, yet I still desperately need the mosfet (or mosfets) to make the board kicking back again...

And I love BIG HUGE heatpiped heatsinks a lot! However I have a bit of trouble with the fans on them, so no way to use Delta fans for me - only when I try some overclock records - then yep

davmax - I'm not sure about the specs, you are? Others claim 42A ... as I stated in previous post... Honestly I would love to see the datasheet, however it is not (and I repeating myself there again...) on Infineon webpage anymore and not even Google can google it...
I ask Infineon support.

And - no disrespect - but if you read anything older that 3 posts from me, you can see that D2pak was already identified - indeed the device has lead spacing 5mm and itself it is 10x10mm big (the whole body)

It is D2pak or TO-263 - same stuff. And I think I can solder anything there, just to make my server work again. You have to understand - this is sort of mission critical machine at my home...

And of course, if I could get my hand on better mosfets, then I get not only 3, but 5 of them and solder them even into the places the mosfets aren't before soldered in hope to extend their life ad infinitum

But maybe that is not need, as inside of the board is only VIA C3 1200Mhz Nehemiah CPU with only 14W power consumption

And the mosfet died as direct result of the cursed G-LUXON caps that failed miserably, as pictures show...

And I'm glad to hear that many can assist and help me with this problem, as I'm sort of clueless now... And I make any package fit there, just to make the server working again

But we already determined that D2pak is it.
http://electronred.iespana.es/images...s/medd2pak.gif
Or TO-263 fit at well perfectly:
http://www.sanrex.com/discrete%20pac...ifs/to_263.gif

Others I make fit - believe me

You haven't seen the worst of me yet - I have dark side too...

**supersabre** · 07-11-2006, 02:05 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Originally posted by trodas

Now what went wrong? The 5V is shortcuted. I though - caps. Desoldered them, and checked them - and they aren't shortcuted. So, I soldered all the Pannyes and still - shortcut. Then I desoldered the top mosfet (the alone one on the second phase design, or what the hell this is...) and - 12, 32, 48, 62 ... all the way to aroun 300 ohms I getting as the caps charging. Correct now

So, it is the damn mosfet that give up when the caps give up.

And the caps give up because they fu*king suxx and also because the PSU use HEC caps witch are giving up after year of running fanless 24/7 and therefore recapping the Eurocase moded fanless PSU is now in order. The PSU containing:

just curious, how you remove the mosfet? The mosfet looks nice.
What sort of tool you used for desoldering the mosfet?

Also, it there any way to find and isolate bad mosfet systematically?

**trodas** · 07-11-2006, 02:34 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

supersabre - well, it may look very nice, but I did not have good feelings towards him, as he failed on me...

How to desolder it? Easy. Just heat up one of the small legs - enough - and then lift it up a bit. Then second one. And then apply the soldering iron on the back, where the metal from the mosfet meet the PCB. In some time (100W solder iron helps a lot, with mine 75W it took some time...) it go off easily and nicely

What sort of tool I use? A 25 year old communists-made in czechoslovakia soldering toy. Yep, I bought it, when I was 6 years old. Now I'm 31... And it still kicking well.

I only added the front "upgrade" that save the threads into the soldering iron itself, when adding a new cooper loop there (they ending up after some time - usualy one recapped mainboard...) and about 10 years ago I replaced the power cord. Not because it was bad, but because it feels kinda light to me at the end and I did not feel right having too close touch on the 220V (errr, 230V now) from mains... Oh, yes, and once I replaced the small lightbulb there...

And so to say, I feel sorry for these, that have to use soldering irons made todays, mainly these with verticaly placed the output bars, witch forcing you to have verticaly placed the end heating-up loop, witch make soldering very hard and sucking off the tin nearly impossible...

(they even trying to sell such stupid designs there, much to my surprise...)

And isolate dead mosfet systematicaly? No way, mate. You can't cut on the PCB, so if the mosfet is shortcuting the power line, you just have to tip witch one it is. In my case, it was clear. The bottom ones are more cold + two. The top one is alone. Prime candidate and yep, it was him

BTW, I wonder - the resistance measured with DMM of the Abit KD7-G mobo into the Vcore cap was increasing from about 10 Ohms to 33.3 - 33.4 Ohms top. The resistance measured with the very same DMM of the ECS P6STMT mobo on Vcore caps are increasing from about 12 Ohms straight up to over 300 Ohms and still going up, albeit very slowly.
Anyone dare to explain?

Different Vcore design? Sure, possible. But - really it can be that different?
Or - these mosfets are still bad? Well, yea, possible too. But if they are damaged, should not they have lower resistance and not higher?

I don't know and we drifting far from topic now

(I dubt it matter, however...

)

**linuxguru** · 07-11-2006, 08:36 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Ah, these old, secret Jedi weapons from behind the Iron Curtain are the reason why Trodas' workmanship is impeccable. What next, a plasma torch?

BTW, has anybody used these:

1) Butane-powered, pen-sized soldering torches available in places like Radio Shack and so on?
2) The green Laser pen advertised at places like ThinkGeek, which is supposed to be able to ignite wood and kindle fires?

**arneson** · 07-11-2006, 08:45 PM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

The pen torch is very handy for reflow but the flame tip must always be in motion.
If your not very fast it's easy to roast something.
The technigue definetely takes practice on old boards.

**davmax** · 07-12-2006, 01:02 AM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

Trodas others are right the 15N03L is 42 Amp. That defies the normal naming standard\ convention. Very misleading.

You said you would like the data sheet here is the link: http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe...IPP15N03L.html

click on the link that is next to download.

It would seem therefore that if you can get 15N03L it will be fine. I believe Big Pope can get them. I would say that adding two more at the blank pads will gain you nothing, I suspect that you have add other components two make them effective.

**trodas** · 07-12-2006, 02:47 AM

Re: ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

linuxguru - heheh, thanks

And I do seen a blowtorch used on mobo - but to get off the NB heatsink Sapphire glued to NB too well...

arneson - I would not dare to recommend that torch to soldering anything on mainbaords to anyone, tough...

davmax - heheh, you see. Infineon can broke naming convention, eh. Damn them.
But thanks a lot for the mosfet 15N03L datasheet link!

Good job! Must add the http://alldatasheet.com to my list of where to look for...

And I see if Joe could help me, it would be great. I need to get my server kicking again, eh... But that req. also recapping the PSU. HEC caps are the ones that caused the problem in the very first place anyway...

And about the adding mosfets did not gain me a think - I think it require more consideration. The first mosfet are some sort of preregulation. However the four next are tied to each together and obviously are part of two phase Vcore regulation. Each phase originally consist of TWO mosfets, however to cut the cost, only one was installed.
The second places are empty, but the PCB around did not miss any other components and mainly - these second places for add. mosfets are conductive to the ones where mosfets are placed already. Therefore adding the two new mosfets will for sure make them work - simply in parallel to the existing ones.

The main question is other one, tough.

The machine is, will and forever remain fanless. And it using a 14W VIA C3 cpu. So, the main question is - will these parallel mosfets do any good in this particular case?

I mean - the fanless design is about only one thing - cut the heat to minimum. Adding components for sure make the heat dissipation better, but won't be there only more heat then?
I mean - if the came current go trough two mosfets instead of one, what will happen? The loses in each mosfet will be only multiplied by two, and therefore it only generate more heat.

So, will the higher heat be payed off by somewhat better regulation?

Or - since the mosfet already died on me, is better for the sake of lifetime of the board to install these additional mosfets just to gain longetivity and even it increase the CPU temperature somewhat?

Or maybe it will not increase the CPU temp but decrease it, as more heat on the side might cause more - even passive - airflow and more airflow = lesser temp on the CPU?

You see, fanless design is very tricky and bring too much questions and things that has to be taken into consideration... Like in fanless, the used TIM won't matter a bit. Since the temperature throughput by it is very low (the heatsink is not at different temperature as the CPU!) it won't matter how good the contact it

Or another - in fanless design, the temperature is higher by 10 to 15°C that with traditional fan cooling, since there is no difference between core temperature and the bottom of CPU temperature, as the temperature aren't decreased by force of airflow, but by finding the limiting temperature, where the normal fanless dissipation of heat become equal to the added heat produced by the CPU...

In short, in fanless everything heat up the same balance temp.

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ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

ECS P6STMT with OST and G-LUXONS caps

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