Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

[momaka]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

^ That I can't argue with. I like the old UI better too.

[SluggerB]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

Well, if you have Windows 7, you can just use FF Quantum instead, as that still supports 7. Mypal is really meant more for XP, since no other modern browser supports it anymore.

I dislike the current UI of Firefox and much prefer the older UI, and mypal has it.

[momaka]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

I tried that mypal browser on a Windows 7 VM and it looks great! I'l going to do a test across the sites I use most and it if works well so long Chrome.

Well, if you have Windows 7, you can just use FF Quantum instead, as that still supports 7. Mypal is really meant more for XP, since no other modern browser supports it anymore. The only reason I suggest FF Quantum over Mypal, at least on a "modern" OS that can run something that is still supported, is simply because modern FF will actually run faster on a multi-core PC. In contrast, Mypal is based on Pale Moon, which is based on the old Firefox code that doesn't scale too well on multi-core PCs. In fact, any pre-Quantum FF is majorly single-threaded and will not benefit from a anything more powerful than a fast dual-core CPU. Thus, overall performance with these legacy-based browsers will not be as fast as more modern browser. On an old slow clunker PC, however, it would be the opposite.

If you don't mind changing your ablocker, I would suggest Ublock Origin Legacy:

https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock-fo...egacy/releases

Works like a charm and is more light in resources (back in the day was the reason for which I replaced ABP).

Thanks, I'll keep it in mind. I didn't update back, but I found out that since Mypal is based on the same source code as Pale Moon, AdBlock Plus for Pale Moon is what was needed to get it going. But being that ABP for Pale Moon is an old version, I still haven't used it enough to confirm that it fully blocks everything like an updated and still supported ABP for Firefox. So if it doesn't work, I'll probably try Ublock.

Also, I will suggest the Classic Add-ons Archive:

https://github.com/JustOff/ca-archive

Went to bookmark it and I found that I had bookmarked this a long while back ... but just had forgotten about it. All this browser switching and updating has made me loose track of some long-time bookmarks. Gotta sit down one day and organize them.

As per description:
This catalog contains 93,598 versions of 19,450 Firefox add-ons created by 14,274 developers over the past 15 years using XUL/XPCOM technology before Mozilla decided to ruin the classic extensions ecosystem and go exclusively to WebExtensions.

Yeah, that's nice for finding legacy add-ons that have long been removed from elsewhere online. However, I have found that some of these extensions and add-ons don't always work as intended anymore - especially anything related to YouTube. For example, a lot of the YT add-ons that let you download the video no longer work as YT constantly keeps updating their "engine"/site to prevent exactly this from happening. But apart from that, there are still a great number of useful addons there.

[SluggerB]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

I tried that mypal browser on a Windows 7 VM and it looks great! I'l going to do a test across the sites I use most and it if works well so long Chrome.

[hasefroch]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

The only thing is I still haven't done is find how to get Adblock Plus to work properly - most likely just have to look for a download of the last version that supported whatever engine Mypal is based on off of FF. I tried an early version of ABP, and it didn't quite work. So I still need to experiment and test things in regards to that. But otherwise, it looks like I might be able to stay on XP for a few more years. Holy crap, this is getting ridiculous - when will I abandon XP?!

If you don't mind changing your ablocker, I would suggest Ublock Origin Legacy:

https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock-fo...egacy/releases

Works like a charm and is more light in resources (back in the day was the reason for which I replaced ABP).

Also, I will suggest the Classic Add-ons Archive:

https://github.com/JustOff/ca-archive

As per description:
This catalog contains 93,598 versions of 19,450 Firefox add-ons created by 14,274 developers over the past 15 years using XUL/XPCOM technology before Mozilla decided to ruin the classic extensions ecosystem and go exclusively to WebExtensions.

[televizora]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

I will repeat myself...
Dual core x64 capable system with 4GB+ can be found even for 50$
Everything is becoming heavier and older machines are becoming obsolete.
Win7 is not so far away from WindowsXP and most machines can be upgraded.
About Win10 - I don't like it either. If the browsers stop supporting Win7, most likely I will completely switch to Linux, unless Microsoft fixes this garbage, which they call operating system. And I don't see this happening any time soon.

[SluggerB]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

I've been looking for an updated old school browser, I will be trying this in a VM shortly

I play some XP only PC games, to date running them in an XP VM has worked fine. You need to reboot the VM in safe mode to install DirectX but after that they run fine.

[momaka]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

FWIW, there is a web browser still updated in 2020: https://mypal-browser.org/
It's bases in Mozilla Firefox pre-Quantum and compatible with said 'old' extensions.

I just tested this Mypal browser on an old trash-picked Sony Vaio laptop with 1.7 GHz Pentium M Dothan CPU and 512 MB of DDR RAM.

My impressions so far... holy molly! This browser actually works very well! I tried as many websites with it that I know Firefox 52.9 ESR has trouble displaying, and it was no sweat for this browser. Everything worked just like it would on modern Quantum FF.... just a tad slower, given the machine I was using... but still way quicker and more responsive than FF 52.9 ESR, even on a slightly newer PC.

Moreover, the resource Mypal uses is similar to what Firefox 3.6 did back in the day - i.e. fairly light on RAM and CPU use. I was actually able to go on Youtube and watch 1-2 videos on this slow laptop without issue. Sure it was 360p, but it worked fine. CPU wasn't even at 100% with that. Only after I switched to 480p, it hovered near 100%. Memory-wise, I didn't even think I would be able to browse any modern page without hitting pagefile first with that puny 512 MB of RAM. - Not true. The RAM usage wasn't too high on most pages - around 400-450 MB... and stable at that. With Youtube front page loaded, it went a little past 450 MB and started climbing around 500 MB after watching 1 video. After watching a 2nd video, memory usage was going a bit over 512 MB and into pagefile. But that is still very impressive. This Vaio laptop uses about 200 MB of RAM on the desktop. So Mypal really wasn't taking that much more RAM. In fact, starting Mypal on home page brought RAM usage to only about 300-ish MB. Compare that to Firefox 52.9 ESR, where I can't even get the browser to start on a machine with 512 MB of RAM without hitting the pagefile (i.e. going over 512 MB.) And I tested this even on an old P3 laptop that sits at 80 MB of memory while on the desktop - same deal (I hit pagefile / over 512 MB just starting FF 52.9 ESR.) I suspect 1 GB of RAM would be plenty for general basic browsing with Mypal.

I am very impressed with Mypal so far.
The only thing is I still haven't done is find how to get Adblock Plus to work properly - most likely just have to look for a download of the last version that supported whatever engine Mypal is based on off of FF. I tried an early version of ABP, and it didn't quite work. So I still need to experiment and test things in regards to that. But otherwise, it looks like I might be able to stay on XP for a few more years. Holy crap, this is getting ridiculous - when will I abandon XP?!

[momaka]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

FWIW, there is a web browser still updated in 2020: https://mypal-browser.org/
It's bases in Mozilla Firefox pre-Quantum and compatible with said 'old' extensions.

Hope this helps.

Thanks!
I haven't tried it yet, but downloaded it and will likely set it up on a test system soon.

Firefox 52 doesn't even work with some sites. I run that on my older XP/Vista PCs and I can't even view a public transport timetable because the site's timetable section is entirely based around JavaScript that only seems to work on the latest Chrome/tablets/phones etc.

See for yourself with Firefox 52.9.0 ESR:
www.ptv.vic.gov.au/timetables

Wow, that website is pure script garbage. Who would design a public transport website like this? Just for giggles, I tried running it on my Opera 12 (Presto engine) browser. Normally, poorly-coded pages full of scripts tend to either crash it or make it very slow. The one you posted didn't do either - Opera 12 got fully stuck and unresponsive, pinning one CPU core to itself and sat there eating CPU cycles without moving for 10 minutes. Eventually, I just had to close it with Task Manager - it was that unresponsive.

Glad that at least most government websites here still work (for the most part) even on older browsers.

And yes, I use Firefox 52.x ESR on most of my old PCs as well. Indeed there are a number of websites that don't run properly... but for the most part, FF 52 ESR is still somewhat viable option for those who choose to stick to XP and Vista. Well, better than nothing, anyways.

you couldn't use NoScript for faster loading either, as it will give an error telling you to enable JavaScript, as the site doesn't work without JS enabled anyway).

I never found a use for NoScript - seems to break almost every website I try it on, nowadays.

Not so long ago the site had a "classic" version which retained the older HTML-based pages (with PDF timetables, route maps etc.), but the classic site was shut down last month with everything deleted.

Which reminds me... Yahoo! Mail and Google Gmail still also have a classic HTML version (which is what I use.) It loads very fast and actually doesn't look bad (well, outdated for sure, but very easy on the eyes, at least.) I hope they never remove that option, because I can't stand "modern" webmail layouts with endless scrollbars and counter-intuitive design.

Also, YouTube on Firefox 52 runs like molasses in a New York winter, causes the browser to get slower and slower with every video watched until it hangs (with 4GB of RAM installed), and some of the new videos don't even load because it errors out telling me "Your browser does not currently recognize any of the video formats available."

Yeah, FF pre-Quantum doesn't make good use of systems with multi-core CPUs. It relies on 1 (or max 2) core to do all of the rendering. So heavy scripts will bog it down easily. Not only that, but older CPUs that don't support the newest instruction sets will struggle even more. Hence the reason an old CPU will run even slower than it should. But that's just poor optimization/coding on the web "designers".

As for YouTube... it's become quite a hog these days. I can still run 1080p @ 60 Hz videos on my Athlon II X4 PCs, but high-end Core 2 Duos will stutter somewhat - even on the new FF Quantum engine, which is optimized for multi-core systems. And from what I notice, most of the bloat/slowness is from the streaming part. That is, once a portion (or the whole video) downloads and streaming stops, YT won't be taxing the CPU as much. The worst is when you first load a YT page - all of the ads (even if you're using an ad-blocker) and the panel with "related" videos on the side, along with comments, tends to bog down CPUs easily. Just way too many poorly-written scripts loading at once.

The site is otherwise 100% functional & usable.

That's a mild understatement.
This place is golden!

[Topcat]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

Actually, I just disabled JavaScript in about:config (javascript.enabled = false) to get that message. It's still ridiculous that a website is 100% dependent on every single thing being JavaScript. Whatever happened to plain old HTML?

IIRC on this site, the only things that won't work with Java disabled are the inline image scaler and some of the dropdown menu functions. The site is otherwise 100% functional & usable.

[Heihachi_73]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

Actually, I just disabled JavaScript in about:config (javascript.enabled = false) to get that message. It's still ridiculous that a website is 100% dependent on every single thing being JavaScript. Whatever happened to plain old HTML?

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

About that text telling you to enable JS, that means you blocked too much in NoScript. (or eMatrix in Pale Moon)

Same when you get an error message from a player, like "required source could not be found".

[noppa]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

Firefox 52 doesn't even work with some sites. I run that on my older XP/Vista PCs and I can't even view a public transport timetable because the site's timetable section is entirely based around JavaScript that only seems to work on the latest Chrome/tablets/phones etc.

See for yourself with Firefox 52.9.0 ESR:
www.ptv.vic.gov.au/timetables

If for whatever reason you have a dinosaur PC with an "unsupported" browser like the above, you can't even download a bus timetable as the JavaScript doesn't work properly on it and fails to load anything at all except for a blank page (and of course, they made sure that you couldn't use NoScript for faster loading either, as it will give an error telling you to enable JavaScript, as the site doesn't work without JS enabled anyway). You can't get paper timetables either, because they stopped issuing them due to COVID-19. Not so long ago the site had a "classic" version which retained the older HTML-based pages (with PDF timetables, route maps etc.), but the classic site was shut down last month with everything deleted.

Also, YouTube on Firefox 52 runs like molasses in a New York winter, causes the browser to get slower and slower with every video watched until it hangs (with 4GB of RAM installed), and some of the new videos don't even load because it errors out telling me "Your browser does not currently recognize any of the video formats available." (but at least Neutral Drop still works so all is not lost yet).

As for the first post, why not just dual-boot? Run modern Windows/Linux etc. for internet access, reboot into XP for Nero.

The above URL seems to work correctly on MyPal.

[noppa]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

I'm using MyPal on my XP machine, and it's working really nice.
It's receiving updates too.

https://www.mypal-browser.org/

[Heihachi_73]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

Firefox 52 doesn't even work with some sites. I run that on my older XP/Vista PCs and I can't even view a public transport timetable because the site's timetable section is entirely based around JavaScript that only seems to work on the latest Chrome/tablets/phones etc.

See for yourself with Firefox 52.9.0 ESR:
www.ptv.vic.gov.au/timetables

If for whatever reason you have a dinosaur PC with an "unsupported" browser like the above, you can't even download a bus timetable as the JavaScript doesn't work properly on it and fails to load anything at all except for a blank page (and of course, they made sure that you couldn't use NoScript for faster loading either, as it will give an error telling you to enable JavaScript, as the site doesn't work without JS enabled anyway). You can't get paper timetables either, because they stopped issuing them due to COVID-19. Not so long ago the site had a "classic" version which retained the older HTML-based pages (with PDF timetables, route maps etc.), but the classic site was shut down last month with everything deleted.

Also, YouTube on Firefox 52 runs like molasses in a New York winter, causes the browser to get slower and slower with every video watched until it hangs (with 4GB of RAM installed), and some of the new videos don't even load because it errors out telling me "Your browser does not currently recognize any of the video formats available." (but at least Neutral Drop still works so all is not lost yet).

As for the first post, why not just dual-boot? Run modern Windows/Linux etc. for internet access, reboot into XP for Nero.

[stj]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

you can use old browsers with this proxy layer:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=67165

[hasefroch]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

You may use WSUSoffline: https://www.wsusoffline.net/

Used to use it to update PCs without connecting them to internet. IIRC, the very last version to support XP was the 9.2.1 but last time used it was somewhere around 2016. YMMV

FWIW, there is a web browser still updated in 2020: https://mypal-browser.org/
It's bases in Mozilla Firefox pre-Quantum and compatible with said 'old' extensions.

Hope this helps.

[momaka]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

You cant even open a modern page using WindowsXP. Half of the things don't work.

You can... with the latest/last Firefox ESR (52.9, if I'm not mistaken.) But since that is also rather outdated now, there are indeed a few web pages that don't work correctly. For the most part, though, most websites do still work OK with FF ESR 52.x... maybe not as smooth as modern FF Quantum engine, of course.

That said, the major letdown of using FF ESR (due to Mozilla intentionally blocking FF Quantum engine from installing on XP - bastards!) is that FF ESR (and all pre-Quantum FF really) are not optimized for multi-core CPU, and therefore still perform very sluggishly. The best option is to get a fast dual-core CPU and OC it even more to get higher core speeds, so that way FF ESR runs faster. Of course, P4 architecture, even with its fast clock, is not very efficient, so it's not very good. However, between a very fast Core 2 Duo (like 3 GHz or more) and a much newer CPU, there won't be too much of a difference in performance.

I use Windows7 with the classic gray theme.

Same.
This applies to both my XP and 7 systems. I also turn off taskbar grouping and many of the other visual [d]effects. IMO, Windows classic is the best and most user-friendly theme that has ever come out in Windows, and I refuse to replace it with anything else.

Oh, dear, get something newer. At least dual core Core2Duo.

Oh, I have plenty of newer systems - high-end Core 2 Duo's, Core 2 Quads, Athlon II X4, an i5, and even a dual Xeon octa-core system as of last spring. But the better systems I use for gaming. For everyday use, an Athlon X2 5200+ does the job pretty well and is likely what I will be using (or something along those lines) for my next main PC.

The sad thing is that today the web pages themselves had become a benchmark. With all this bloatware.

Indeed.
However, aside from Youtube, BCN, email, and a few other select websites, I rarely do much browsing outside of those. So most of the websites I visit don't have a whole lot of bloat (except for YT.) Heck, BCN still runs great on just about anything. If only the rest of the internet was like this place.

[televizora]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

Yes, it's slow to browse modern web on a P4 machine today. At least mine (still main PC) is somewhat newer P4 with Prescott HT CPU (that good ol' Optiplex 170L.)

You cant even open a modern page using WindowsXP. Half of the things don't work.
Windows10 is the problem. I use Windows7 with the classic gray theme.
Oh, dear, get something newer. At least dual core Core2Duo.
XP is so ancient now, that most of the newer software will not run on it.
Not that my laptop is that great, but it's at least an i5 with 4 gigs of ram.
The sad thing is that today the web pages themselves had become a benchmark. With all this bloatware.
Windows10 is another story. I had many machines at work with Windows10. Most of them are running Windows7 now.
Windows10 is notorious for it's "bugs" with CPU spiking "Software protection = 50% constant cpu usage"
At one moment, the PC just slows down with high cpu usage and you cant fix it, no matter what you disable.
I will stay with Windows7, even if it's EOL, until they fix this. I cant tolerate constant slowdowns.

[momaka]

Re: Windows XP EoL Security Rollup...or similar?

On something this slow, I can't even imagine trying to view modern bloatware sites, but I digress.

Hi!

Yes, it's slow to browse modern web on a P4 machine today. At least mine (still main PC) is somewhat newer P4 with Prescott HT CPU (that good ol' Optiplex 170L.)

Anyways, all I can say is... forget about the security rollup. Just make sure his machine is running behind a router that has at least some kind of built-in firewall and doesn't expose the machine's ports to the internet openly. With that and a good hosts file, he shouldn't really have issues, unless he visits tainted websites on a regular basis. But if that's the case, no security update will help that one.

I already have plans to get a newer "main PC" for this year... but likely will still try to stick to XP. There's some crap about Vista and 7 that annoy me to no end when it comes to organizing/sorting files, and I just can't get over it. Otherwise, I've finally warmed up to 7 pretty well now (about time, lol. )

Well, there are 'unofficial' rollups. Goggle 'Windows XP SP4'. There also are complete installs with all updates slipstreamed into them. One of them are called Windows XP Professional SP3 x86 - Integral Edition.

Have not used them, and don't know if they can be trusted.

Yeah, I wouldn't trust them.

Genuine XP copy + official SP3 is the way to go.