Gigabyte GA-7DX+

[JEWilson]

This is a new board - only started using it 3/4 months ago

The gigabyte website tells me the mobo supports the following CPUs
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/M...ProductID=1301

I only use it because of the ECC Reg Support for DDR SDRAM

Q - Can I get a Barton unofficially to run on this mobo (at 2400+/2600+
thoroughbred core speeds) but have the fatter (512k) cache?

Any help appreicated

Thx

[Fizzycapola]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

I wouldn't test unless someone knows for sure.

I had a bad experience from upgrading an 266Mhz Bus Althlon to a 333Mhz Bus Barton, smoke came out as RAM & CPU started burning, socket was burned CPU only partially worked after that. It was a case of the manufacturer being right for once.

[kikkoman]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

Why? It doesn't make much of a difference since the Barton is clocked ca. 150-200MHz lower than its T-Bred counterparts at the same speed ratings.
And the fastest available T-Bred B@266 is a 2600+. Probably cheaper,too. oh, and it seems there's a 2800+ Barton (266FSB) OEM model.
All Mobile Barton models run at 266FSB, too.
But frankly, I have no idea if a Barton would work at all. Usually mobo manufacturers release a new BIOS even for single new steppings, so there must be something to it.

[starfury1]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

well looking at what they say Id be very wary

Id check the exact specs on the CPU and What the MB can do

what kikkoman says you might get away with if the barton falls in that category.
I have no idea and he would know more then I do on that score

Agree too that a BIOS is normally updated to support a new CPU if the hardware is capable of using it.

So maybe look at the Bios firmware and see what updates there are and what they are for or support.

Seems 333 400 (FSB) are all N/A

I think there may be a Voltage thing you had better what out for too.
(I sort of remember this when I looked at the max and type of CPU's for my old gigabytes

here the bios page but it don't say much

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/M...ProductID=1301

personally unless you can confirm it as being workable
I wouldn't risk it..better a slower working MB/CPU then a (worse case) Smoked MB/CPU

As FizzyC has stated by bad example sorry Fizzy
(Actually almost fell into that trap when I seen a good price on a CPU)

Cheers

[gonzo0815]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

I would say it should work, from my understanding Bartons and T-Bred are pin compatible.
I have never read or seen problems like smoke or fire, unless there where another problem present (which is by the way very very common for those platforms. Very sensitive core).
Most probable reason for smoke is one of those very cheap and bad PSU`S from that time wich can`t handle any seriouse load (e.g. a new GFX or a Barton).
So i would certainly advise to check PSU model & manufacturer, before do any upgrading.
The only thing which is for sure is the missing FSB 330 &400 support of this mainboard.

But unless you find some one who tried that, nonone can guarantee anything to you.

[JEWilson]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

Agreed,

The mobo voltages can be monitored via the BIOS on this mobo.
The present CPU in situ, a TBred 2400+ 256k 133MHz FSB is
a 0.13um 1.65V AXDA2400DK3VC Model 8 - requires 68.3W from the
AMD data.

The CPU core voltage is the same for a Barton, gives me next,
the problem as to whether (not) the mobo CPU VRM can supply
sufficient power. Barton's require 68.3W to 76.8W.
I suspect it can.

I do also have the reference design for this series of mobo,
a GA-7DXR which has been recapped.

As is normally the case, on subsequent releases of mobo,
the silk screen details where all the caps were and of course,
are amiss on subsequent versions.

Thx

[starfury1]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

Humm interesting point on PSU Thanks Gonzo

My above post, just to clarify a bit,
it sort of comes back to me what it was..

The GA-7ZXE I have is a Version 1

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/M...ProductID=2307

Supports Palomino only

Version 2 (revision)

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/M...ProductID=1318

supports up to AthlonXP 2600+ Thoroughbred 266

I am not 100% sure so correct me if I am wrong

but I think this was due to voltages used with cores
(I know the VRM is told by the CPU what is required (VID ? from memory)

TBirds (probably) didn't exist when version 1 come out
so I am guessing Rev 2 was a modded MB to support later CPU's at the time

So the above post was to advise extreme caution with any later CPU's and older MB's really
(checking specs might avoid extreme wallet pain)

I think (but could be wrong ) Tbird is 1V6 ? palomino is 1V85 ?

Cheers

[starfury1]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

just re reading gonzo's post...and its question I am asking here

Being "socket A" shouldn't they all be pin for pin compatible?

Palomino T'Bird Barton

(granted I know pins can be change and NC pins and socket molding can be used as "key way" so that only the right chip can be used )

Just wondering since it was mentioned.

Cheers

[JEWilson]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

The details for AMD CPUs are here


I also found this page for CPU upgrades (refer to Gigabyte GA-7DX)
http://www.upgradeware.com/english/p...patibility.htm

But this refers to a hardware multiplier control (see unlocked below)
The fastest Barton has x11 mult with an FSB 200MHz
The T-Bred in situ has a x15 mult with an FSB 133Mhz

So...
Feasibly, I could run the Barton at x11 mult 133MHz
This would be equivalent to an XP 1700+ with a 512k cache

Of course, if I could get an unlocked Barton - it would be a different matter
As it would be running at 133MHz, suspect I would probably save on
the power budget available from the CPU VRM also.

Any thoughts?

[JEWilson]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

Some clarification required

Max mult x13 with a Barton at 166MHz
So this would give me a TBred XP2100+ at 133MHz

[starfury1]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

I'll let someone who really knows what they are talking about reply on the above.

If electrically compatible "I think?" it just a matter of juggling the numbers and yeah unlock but no guru so not going to stick my neck out on that one.


But a DOH! that should be T'bred not T'bird...
not the famous Thunderbirds are Go! or Car for that matter.

Cheers

[kikkoman]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

vcore voltage can be set via bridges (or pins).
sure, they're all pin compatible. no problem there either.
BUT: i think you're ging to run into some kind of trouble without a proper BIOS. either it's not going to work at all, or maybe the extra cache can't be addressed. i can't tell for sure, but i doubt it'll run smoothly.

i still suggest you get the fastest t-bred and unlock it (which is easy with t-breds compared to bartons).
t-breds are cheaper than bartons, and i think it'll be faster, too. the extra cache really doesn't make THAT much of a difference.
as i said above, the bartons are a bit underclocked compared to the respective (PR) t-bred models. if you underclock them even further, the cache is clocked slower, too.
i'd say it ain't worth the hassle.

[JEWilson]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

Agreed

Upon reflection, it is not going to be worth the hassle

Thanks all

[gdement]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

i still suggest you get the fastest t-bred and unlock it

Easier yet, just get a mobile thoroughbred. But I'm not sure how fast those come, so maybe you can't get the best performance that way.


regarding BIOS, I've noticed that many times the newest BIOS for a given machine will add support for newer CPU cores, but the fact won't be advertised in the changelog. Depending on the date of the newest GA-7DX bios, you might get lucky with it. But thoroughbred is a much safer bet, those will surely be supported with an update, if not out of the box.

Upon reflection, it is not going to be worth the hassle

Thanks all

Fair enough. But if you see a good price on a good thoroughbred, especially if it's a mobile, then I'd go for it. TBred shouldn't give you any trouble if you just flash the BIOS first.

[JEWilson]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

Thanks for the info

Appears a mobile Barton which operates at FSB 133MHz and also
has clock multiplier up to 16.5x is a route to follow as with;

AXMA3000FKT4C - Athlon XP 3000+ Barton 2200MHz 16.5x 133MHz 1.65V
AXMA2800FKT4C - Athlon XP 2800+ Barton 2133MHz 16.0x 133MHz 1.65V
AXMA2600FKT4C - Athlon XP 2600+ Barton 2000MHz 15.0x 133MHz 1.65V

All of the above have 512k cache as well

The 2600 and 2800 should be drop in replacements without any issues;
1. FSB 133 - what I require
2. Core voltage 1.65V
3. Multiplier up to 16.0x

Any other issues required?

I suspect the CPU details will be implemented with the latest BIOS
which has been applied.

Again, thx for the details

[kikkoman]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

I suspect the CPU details will be implemented with the latest BIOS
which has been applied.

see, that's the thing I'm concerned about.

the lastest official BIOS version is F7 from June 19th 03
---and the Barton XP-M was introduced (to the public, I assume) only twelve days earlier (according to wikipedia).
the T-Bred 2400+ and 2600+ (support for these is the official purpose of the F7) however were introduced WAY earlier (MArch 12th '03).


given this and the fact that this mobo wasn't designed for Barton cores in the first place - and for mobile CPUs neither - there's still a chance that the BIOS doesn't support this CPU (to whatever extent).

[JEWilson]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

You may well be right

As I recall, adding new stepping codes which were not available
with a BIOS update was a trivial matter provided the hardware
could support it.

I have done some experimentation with this feature on an old
Tyan Tiger 100.

For example, Tyan state (as I recall but my memory is hazy on this)
max CPU is 800Mhz Katmai with the latest and last BIOS.
As it was a dual CPU system, I patched the bios with a stepping
update from sandpile.org to make the BIOS see new steppings.

To that end, I made the mobo see and load Coppermine 1GHz
in Slot 1 and the system was stable. You might think, how did
I get a uMine to work. Simply used a slocket adapter!

However, the mobo would not boot with two slockets with
a uMine each This was a matter attributed to the CPU VRM
not being able to cope with the power requirements.
The VID was correctly identified (I checked) and such like - still have
the board.

Albeit I left that little project at that point (too busy), I
could have beefed up the VRM to accomodate both CPUs.

So...

It may well be possible in this specific instance where the
latest F7 bios for the GA-7DX+ whilst not immediately
supporting a Barton mobile Athlon XP, can be patched with
a BIOS stepping code to get it to run on this mobo.

This of course remains to be seen (and done)

I believe this was Kikkoman's major concern. Correct me if wrong.

Thx

[JEWilson]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

Possibly another issue...

I've started monitoring board voltages and find the AGP voltage at
1.07/1.09V

As this is an AGP 2.0 board, it is populated with an ATI FireGL 8800
AGP 4x adapter

As this adapter is a 1.5V board, should this undervolt condition be
something I should be concerned about?

I should add, albeit the other voltages appear to be ok, it may
be, compensation for the difference between read voltages
with a m/meter and those reported by MM5 will be necessary.

But, given the other MBM 5 readings below, the other voltages
appear ok;
CPU Core - 1.68V
+3.3V - 3.34V
+5.0V - 5.08V
+12.0V - 12.25V
-12.0V - 0.0V - pls ignore
-5.0V - 0.0V - pls ignore
AGP V - 1.09V

And I have yet to get m/meter readings also

Any suggestions, opinions appreciated

[kc8adu]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

check it with a dvm.

[JEWilson]

Re: Gigabyte GA-7DX+

Erm....

I made an error with the AGP voltage label.

In fact, I established this to be the DDR voltage after I ran
the supplied VIA Hardware Monitoring Utility v2.5 and it reports
regular alarms as being in error.

Obviously, the rail should be 2.5V.
This is a new board and has hardly been used.

I cannot fathom how the DDR DC-DC block could be in error or
how this may be attributable to bad caps albeit, the mobo
does have crapacitors by GSC etc.

I only have two of PC2100 ECC Reg DIMMs in situ - these are matched.

Perhaps time for a recap after all....