Why not tanatalum caps or a hybrid recap?

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  • chaos
    New Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 1

    #1

    Why not tanatalum caps or a hybrid recap?

    Boards are obviously originally made w/ crummy Al electrolytic caps for cost reasons. But when recapping the labor is going to be more than the entire initial board cost.

    So, when recapping, why not use tantalum caps? Those aluminum electrolytics aren't even allowed in avionics. You generally won't be able to use equally high values but you won't need them either due to the lower ESR, better RF performance, and the vastly better lifetime values of the Ta caps.

    The only problem I can see is that a couple of the caps may affect the control loops of low voltage regulators or just in general might not be bypass caps, and therefore a big change in value might cause problems. This could be tested by identifying the supply rails and checking resistance, or perhaps by just guessing that the widely repeated value is the bypass cap value.

    A hybrid approach would be possible, too. Minimize exposure to the various Al electrolytic failure modes by using a combination of extra-big Al electrolytic recaps plus some (most likely smaller) tantalum replacements.

    Many people have objected to originally mfr'ing these boards with life-limited caps. Even the very best ones are still woefully inferior to solid caps. I must say I've never recapped a board but I've designed many...
  • Harvey
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Apr 2007
    • 264

    #2
    Re: Why not tanatalum caps or a hybrid recap?

    Where can I get 2200uf tantalum caps?

    Comment

    • PCBONEZ
      Grumpy Old Fart
      • Aug 2005
      • 10661
      • USA

      #3
      Re: Why not tanatalum caps or a hybrid recap?

      Right here:
      http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine....293+4294459839

      If your motherboard only needs 10 it will still cost you over $57.00 after shipping.

      ~ And the ESR isn't any lower than a good solid polymer that costs around ~80% less.
      -> .0055

      Electolytics aren't used in avionics because the air pressure changes will burst them.

      Tantalum caps aren't used on motherboards because they can't handle much ripple and handling ripple is what capacitors on a motherboard ARE FOR.

      .
      Mann-Made Global Warming.
      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

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      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

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      Comment

      • gdement
        Badcaps Veteran
        • Jan 2007
        • 690

        #4
        Re: Why not tanatalum caps or a hybrid recap?

        I have a Slot-2 HP motherboard which is mostly tantalums as far as I could tell. The only electrolytics are on the removable VRM's, which I assume are only the input caps. Everything soldered on the board near components look like tantalums.

        If I could ever get it out of the case I'd post a picture of it, but it's practically impossible to remove so that probably won't happen.

        I've also noticed some old video and network cards use tantalums. But I don't think I've seen them on anything built in the current decade. I suppose polymers are a better alternative today.

        Comment

        • kc8adu
          Super Moderator
          • Nov 2003
          • 8832
          • U.S.A!

          #5
          Re: Why not tanatalum caps or a hybrid recap?

          i remember a slot a athlon board that used nothing but tantalums.
          seems gateway used these boards.

          Comment

          • PCBONEZ
            Grumpy Old Fart
            • Aug 2005
            • 10661
            • USA

            #6
            Re: Why not tanatalum caps or a hybrid recap?

            Yeah,
            Old boards before ripple wasn't a big deal yet.
            Back when FC or PW (or Tayeh) was good enough for Vcore.

            There are three different kinds of tantalums.
            They tried they type you (probably) saw for a while but being as the wet electrolyte is acid and they leak now and then they quickly fell out of favor.

            .
            Mann-Made Global Warming.
            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

            -
            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

            - Dr Seuss
            -
            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
            -

            Comment

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