If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be?

[RukyCon]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

I've seen mixed opinions about the newer CapXon caps. some say they love them, others say they hate them.

Overall, i still don't trust brands like CapXon.

LTEC don't last under any stress, but I see their newer capacitors (5-9 years old) fail a lot more than their older capacitors (10+-15+ years old). Those aren't yet 20 years old, though.

I feel like i've got lucky with Ltec capacitors, as all of the Ltec caps i have from one of my newer PSU's are still good.

[Behemot]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

BTW, those who love those custom C(r)apXons GF 2200/6.3 and also the 1000/16 D8 FSP uses and which ALWAYS go bad, you gonna love this. They started putting custom 470/16 D6.3x20 mm into so many units recently, how long do you think this turd will last?

[Behemot]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

True, but again, I reiterate that even the best four companies making capacitors have admitted that the maximum service life of an electrolytic (with a polymeric seal such as rubber) is estimated to be no more than 15 years tops. So 20-year old Teapo and CapXon failing is disappointing whilst the rest were in spec, but they've still lasted much longer than all those 2-3 year old failed Teapo SCs in Hipro PSUs or 2-3 year old failed CapXon GL and KF in FSP PSUs and LCD monitors. I don't consider SY to be one of Teapo's better series.

I guess they just want to be on the safe side and not make ppl expect their caps to be almsot immortal. Though I just recently acquired some very large-can caps, some of them as much as 50 years old, all but two in 10% (and those two only need reforming and will be too in 10 % I think). Guess what…all japanese, UK, German, mostly non-existing brands for some time.

As for those GP caps, well I don't know how long they were failed, I just know the unit is as much as 2 dcades old. The thing is many of these APC Smart-UPS can run for very long time with those caps failed, especially the old ones with low-integration components and overall much more robust. When I run into the latest APC-design units, usually even if just 5 years old, at least some of those crapacitors are already gone. These units are much more prone to failing, maybe it is because they require much more strict circuit parameters, especially the new processors with much smaller Vcore etc. No wonder they go crazy when their filter caps die.

The thing is, some chinese can make good caps, especially if you order proper quality and huge amount of them. But unless about 99.99999+ % of their production is good caps which will last, and unless I will get that number in any random batch of 1000 pieces, it's still pretty much crap for me. I can easily get that from Nichicon, NCC, Rubycon, Suncon, that's for brands I have distributor contacts to. I am quie sure Panasonic will be the very same.

[RukyCon]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

The thing is that i only needed to replace 4 capacitor in total. But i replaced 14 of the 15 caps. [The only one being the mains input cap.]

The spot where the new OST is, had an old OST cap that still worked.

[Wester547]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

I see their (Teapo) "better" series like SY failed the same as SC or C(r)apXon KF in FSP units, replacing all that crap each time. I also often see 20 ears old UPS with couple Matsushita, Rubycon, Samsung etc. caps which almost always still test in spec, while ALL tge remaining Teapos and C(r)apXons in the very same device are ALWAYS screwed, and I mean totally. Both same age, same device. For me it's quite simple, when standard series from quality fab holds twice as long, I have no reason to doubt high-end series won't do the same. After all, when I sometimes run into those on motherboards or even in PSUs, I can pretty much see I am right.

True, but again, I reiterate that even the best four companies making capacitors have admitted that the maximum service life of an electrolytic (with a polymeric seal such as rubber) is estimated to be no more than 15 years tops. So 20-year old Teapo and CapXon failing is disappointing whilst the rest were in spec, but they've still lasted much longer than all those 2-3 year old failed Teapo SCs in Hipro PSUs or 2-3 year old failed CapXon GL and KF in FSP PSUs and LCD monitors. I don't consider SY to be one of Teapo's better series.

But you just won't explain this to those maniacs, no-name chinese crapacitor manufacturers are just glory for them and that's all what they see. In the end it's just they want to be different, it's an act of defiance against all the others (usually older), more experienced. They have to have their own truth, no matter what, just to have their own.

I tried explaining it to them (the difference between the Japanese brands and Chinese/Taiwanese brands) in a way that they'd be less inclined to dissent to. Like I said before, I think people are entitled to their opinion because while certain brands are better than others, there is no really objective answer as to which brand is the best and worst.

Exactly that. Besides, LTec's don't live forever even in Delta. I've already replaced "couple" of them and more are on the way, just recently when testing HW with another HW which all arrived as scrap I think I've run into one. When it declined to start C2D I think it's pretty much obvious it's most likely SB caps

LTEC don't last under any stress, but I see their newer capacitors (5-9 years old) fail a lot more than their older capacitors (10+-15+ years old). Those aren't yet 20 years old, though.

Don't forget the cheap ones with "Low ESR" on the sleeve.

Yup, when they have LOW ESR marked on the sleeve, you know they aren't low ESR.

I'm actually starting to trust chinese caps more. i was recapping an old power supply [from an old tivo series 3 box] that the old Capxon and OST capacitors had failed. I used mostly chemi-con KY and KYB but i was one cap short. I decided to use an OST cap i had from an newer power supply. So far, still working.

Yeah, I've seen another instance on the net of the same capacitors failing in the same PSU. That PSU likely runs hot, under which conditions OST and CapXon are toast. Not sure how long that OST replacement is going to last, though...

[RukyCon]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

I really think the chinese capacitor manufacturers are trying to make there capacitors [about] as good as the japanese manufacturers.

Usually, only cheap capacitors have "VENT" marked on the sleeve.

Don't forget the cheap ones with "Low ESR" on the sleeve.

I'm actually starting to trust chinese caps more. i was recapping an old power supply [from an old tivo series 3 box] that the old Capxon and OST capacitors had failed. I used mostly chemi-con KY and KYB but i was one cap short. I decided to use an OST cap i had from an newer power supply. So far, still working.

[Behemot]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

Well, this isn't really true. For example, the miniature, radial through-hole, low impedance Teapo and CapXon capacitors are known to fail quite often on the output of many SMPS even when they're spec'd correctly and the correct series is chosen for the application, under very light or moderate heat. The choice of raw materials and the quality control of the company matters just as much as the design of the output filter and most of the time, the Chinese/Taiwanese cap brands just can't (or don't) make consistently good capacitors. No one is saying 90% of what they do is garbage. Probably closer to 50/50.

I see their (Teapo) "better" series like SY failed the same as SC or C(r)apXon KF in FSP units, replacing all that crap each time. I also often see 20 ears old UPS with couple Matsushita, Rubycon, Samsung etc. caps which almost always still test in spec, while ALL tge remaining Teapos and C(r)apXons in the very same device are ALWAYS screwed, and I mean totally. Both same age, same device. For me it's quite simple, when standard series from quality fab holds twice as long, I have no reason to doubt high-end series won't do the same. After all, when I sometimes run into those on motherboards or even in PSUs, I can pretty much see I am right.

But you just won't explain this to those maniacs, no-name chinese crapacitor manufacturers are just glory for them and that's all what they see. In the end it's just they want to be different, it's an act of defiance against all the others (usually older), more experienced. They have to have their own truth, no matter what, just to have their own.

When that "one" or "two" bad runs affect thousands of devices, though, it can become a glaring issue. I think some companies, like Taicon and Man Yue (Samxon), or even Samyoung, will build to contract just like PSU OEM companies. If you ask them to build cheaply, they will build cheaply. If you ask them to build with the best materials and QC possible, they will, but it will obviously cost you. I suspect this is how Delta get away with using LTEC capacitors even though they fail in large droves in other PSUs (such as Lite-on, Hipro, Acbel, etc). In combination with Delta's very good design, it's a no-brainer.

Exactly that. Besides, LTec's don't live forever even in Delta. I've already replaced "couple" of them and more are on the way, just recently when testing HW with another HW which all arrived as scrap I think I've run into one. When it declined to start C2D I think it's pretty much obvious it's most likely SB caps

[Wester547]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

Why does the sleeve marking matter except for identification? A lot of the companies that do it probably started doing it when they started adding vents to capacitors for safety. It was likely a sought after feature and they left it there for those who might (however unlikely) be swayed towards them from another manufacturer.

True. Markings such as VENT, W.V. ("Working Voltage"), NEG, and displaying the full operating temperature range on the sleeve is characteristic of very old capacitors.

Well if we're talking about Teapo and CapXon, then I agree, they did have some bad ones that just straight up failed like KZGs did. However, what about brands seen in Insignia PSU's (BestBuy house brand) that are capped with Chang and Fcon caps? We've seen those PSU's before, they're made by Hunt-Key.We see the Fcon caps pop all the time. However, who's to say that they're not being overloaded in one way or another?

Those Insignia-branded PSUs, as well as the older Dynex-branded PSUs and BFG-branded PSUs sold by Best Buy (before BFG went out of business), are indeed all made by Huntkey, and they often use an obsolete half-bridge topology. There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but those older Huntkey PSUs weren't built particularly well and would often explode when loaded to the labeled rating. I wouldn't say the capacitors (KSC, Fcon, BH, United, Decon, HEC, etc) were underspec'd for the application; they were often low impedance and weren't particularly small, and they were even dying left and right outside of the auxiliary standby circuit (which uses discontinuous flyback topology, which puts far more ripple current through the cap than other topologies), long before the sleeve bearing fan died. I chalk that up to poor quality.

Corsair uses Ltec in their secondary sides of their PSUs. They claim on their website to run them at 1/4 the ripple they're rated and that makes it valid for them to charge 270$ for a 1000W psu capped with Taicon and CapXon... My ass.

Taicon is much better quality than CapXon in my book. However, a premium grade PSU should have premium grade capacitors inside it.

However, we don't see Corsair psu's failing that much, only once did I see one fail because of caps, and it was because a Panny primary literally exploded. I have no idea why.

Technically, any primary capacitor can die if it has to handle a transient voltage far above the nominal rating, especially if there's no MOV in the input filter (for better or worse). The Panasonic could have also been a counterfeit.

Agreed, but still people on this site do treat NCC, Nichicon, Sanyo, etc, as if they're the best that can do no wrong. Well, obviously they're not because they've all had bad series caps in time, who's to say that's not what's happening with the cheap brands? I've got a Norwood Micro P4 psu with over 10 year old Fuhjyyu's in it that test just fine. Also has Teapos in it that tested just the same. Who's to say Fuhjyyu and Teapo didn't just jump on the bandwagon of the stolen formula train, realize it was a mistake and then go back to making decent caps?

As I said before, electrolytics are a necessary evil. But I do think it's safe to say that those five Japanese brands are the lesser of the evils. I consider that case of the 10-year year old Fuhjyyus and Teapos testing fine another case of inconsistency (although there is the rare case where 16-year old Fuhjyyus and CapXons can test to spec), especially given that Fuhjyyus have been known to pop in PSUs that were never used before. FWIW, Teapo's SD and SX series seem to be less failure prone than their lower ESR series, such as SC, SM, SZ, SJ, SY, etc.

As to the stolen formula: that is likely an urban myth permeated by journalists. Not saying you are suggesting so, but to conclude that all capacitors with bad electrolyte are using a "stolen" formula is to ignore dozens of different manufacturers over decades, using hundreds of patents from Japan, China, the US, etc, for their electrolytic composition. Those patents include studious scientific detail regarding the electrolytic chemistry and formula (as well as the solvent and solution, the latter of which comprises of a base and an acid or salt), as well as the technology used to produce that electrolyte. Not to mention that any chemical laboratory equipped with the right spectrography and radiography could analyze the electrolyte and come to just the same conclusion: not all bad electrolyte stems from the same "stolen" source.

There were no known court proceedings regarding the theft of the formula either; it is very likely a myth perpetrated by journalists for the sheer sake of the "wow" factor. The problem of the electrolyte that was causing the Chinese/Taiwanese brands to pop on motherboards within months was more likely a combination of electrolyte using an inadequate pH balance, insufficient additives in the water-base electrolyte, and low foil purity producing local galvanic action and absorbing (and generating) an overabundance of hydrogen gas, leading to catastrophic failure in no time flat.

[jazzie366]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

Usually, only cheap capacitors have "VENT" marked on the sleeve.[/QUOTE]

Why does the sleeve marking matter except for identification? A lot of the companies that do it probably started doing it when they started adding vents to capacitors for safety. It was likely a sought after feature and they left it there for those who might (however unlikely) be swayed towards them from another manufacturer.

Well, this isn't really true. For example, the miniature, radial through-hole, low impedance Teapo and CapXon capacitors are known to fail quite often on the output of many SMPS even when they're spec'd correctly and the correct series is chosen for the application, under very light or moderate heat. The choice of raw materials and the quality control of the company matters just as much as the design of the output filter and most of the time, the Chinese/Taiwanese cap brands just can't (or don't) make consistently good capacitors. No one is saying 90% of what they do is garbage. Probably closer to 50/50.

Well if we're talking about Teapo and CapXon, then I agree, they did have some bad ones that just straight up failed like KZGs did. However, what about brands seen in Insignia PSU's (BestBuy house brand) that are capped with Chang and Fcon caps? We've seen those PSU's before, they're made by Hunt-Key.We see the Fcon caps pop all the time. However, who's to say that they're not being overloaded in one way or another?

MAX.... not really. The endurance tests rating the capacitors for that many hours in the datasheet do so at the upper category rated temperature (105ºC or 85ºC, most of the time). When kept cooler, capacitors should last much longer than their datasheet rating.

True, but if this brand is supposedly crap, even with or without inconsistencies, this should have failed long ago.

When that "one" or "two" bad runs affect thousands of devices, though, it can become a glaring issue. I think some companies, like Taicon and Man Yue (Samxon), or even Samyoung, will build to contract just like PSU OEM companies. If you ask them to build cheaply, they will build cheaply. If you ask them to build with the best materials and QC possible, they will, but it will obviously cost you. I suspect this is how Delta get away with using LTEC capacitors even though they fail in large droves in other PSUs (such as Lite-on, Hipro, Acbel, etc). In combination with Delta's very good design, it's a no-brainer.

Corsair uses Ltec in their secondary sides of their PSUs. They claim on their website to run them at 1/4 the ripple they're rated and that makes it valid for them to charge 270$ for a 1000W psu capped with Taicon and CapXon... My ass.

However, we don't see Corsair psu's failing that much, only once did I see one fail because of caps, and it was because a Panny primary literally exploded. I have no idea why.

I've seen several threads and images here and over the internet showing failed NCC primaries, but it's nowhere near as numerous as the surfeit of failed KZGs on motherboards. KZG is (or was, as they are out of production) their truly bad series (KZJ/TMV/TMJ isn't much better).

Agreed, but still people on this site do treat NCC, Nichicon, Sanyo, etc, as if they're the best that can do no wrong. Well, obviously they're not because they've all had bad series caps in time, who's to say that's not what's happening with the cheap brands? I've got a Norwood Micro P4 psu with over 10 year old Fuhjyyu's in it that test just fine. Also has Teapos in it that tested just the same. Who's to say Fuhjyyu and Teapo didn't just jump on the bandwagon of the stolen formula train, realize it was a mistake and then go back to making decent caps?

[Wester547]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

Especially since every 'japanese' cap in a device that's made in china is also made in china.

Country of origin isn't the issue. It's where the manufacturer sources their raw materials from. Even those Japanese capacitors made in China by the aforementioned four companies are still essentially Japanese because at least the vast majority of the raw materials are imported from Japan. IIRC, Rubycon has no factory in China, however.

Most of the caps from Jwco that we see are either KS or KM series, their lowest life, cheapest capacitors for general purpose. They have a black sleeve on them, with a temp rating, the brand, and "VENT" written on them.

Usually, only cheap capacitors have "VENT" marked on the sleeve.

Flashy right? But my point stands, we're judging these companies for making crap caps when 90% of the time we don't see their caps in the following situations:

-In ideal working conditions
-Being used within spec
-The correctly chosen series of cap being used in the proper application

Well, this isn't really true. For example, the miniature, radial through-hole, low impedance Teapo and CapXon capacitors are known to fail quite often on the output of many SMPS even when they're spec'd correctly and the correct series is chosen for the application, under very light or moderate heat. The choice of raw materials and the quality control of the company matters just as much as the design of the output filter and most of the time, the Chinese/Taiwanese cap brands just can't (or don't) make consistently good capacitors. No one is saying 90% of what they do is garbage. Probably closer to 50/50.

However, I have a 200$ fish tank, and the LED lighing has a 680uF 16V Jwco cap on it that's doing the PSU smoothing. It's 7 years old, still tests like brand new.

Again: inconsistency. Of course they will last longer if kept cool as heat most certainly expedites deterioration.

It's either a KS or KM series due to the sleeving, which means it's MAX rated for 2000 hours. This tank never shuts down, it's been on for years now.

MAX.... not really. The endurance tests rating the capacitors for that many hours in the datasheet do so at the upper category rated temperature (105ºC or 85ºC, most of the time). When kept cooler, capacitors should last much longer than their datasheet rating.

All I'm trying to say in the end is that with new technology and huge manufacturers like Jwco, Su'Scon, Lelon, Elite, etc, we need to stop blaming them for one bad run as a whole company. I don't think anyone here has ever tested the devices we pull these out of to see if they're the problem, not the caps.

When that "one" or "two" bad runs affect thousands of devices, though, it can become a glaring issue. I think some companies, like Taicon and Man Yue (Samxon), or even Samyoung, will build to contract just like PSU OEM companies. If you ask them to build cheaply, they will build cheaply. If you ask them to build with the best materials and QC possible, they will, but it will obviously cost you. I suspect this is how Delta get away with using LTEC capacitors even though they fail in large droves in other PSUs (such as Lite-on, Hipro, Acbel, etc). In combination with Delta's very good design, it's a no-brainer.

I've seen several threads and images here and over the internet showing failed NCC primaries, but it's nowhere near as numerous as the surfeit of failed KZGs on motherboards. KZG is (or was, as they are out of production) their truly bad series (KZJ/TMV/TMJ isn't much better).

[jazzie366]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

Because of wave soldering for the through hole vs. reflow soldering for the SMD lytics perhaps??

That would be something that could stress the cap a bit more...


Most people are not. Some people are. They go through the interwebs and call every non japanese capacitor crap...
Wouldn't you call that racist?

Just because something doesn't come from some japanese manufacturers doesn't mean it's bad or so...
Especially since every 'japanese' cap in a device that's made in china is also made in china.

Just take a look at the datasheet of for example Teapo SC series. And now Nichicon UPS series. Would you really use the UPS series when it's way worse in every aspect than the Teapo?

Why not be honest and tell it like it is:
In most cases "the japanese" manufacturers don't do caps in the area most chinese ones do. They start somewhere in the middle of most Chinese/Taiwanese manufacturers. That those caps are (a bit) better should be obvious...
But in the end, everyone just cooks with water. So why make a big deal out of the manufacturers origin?!
That cheaper caps don't last long should be rather obvious...

Also, remember something like this.

We've all seen caps with the brand, "Jwco" on them before. They are usually regarded as Chinese shit, but I just went and found a haul of their datasheets, and I found something suprising.

Most of the caps from Jwco that we see are either KS or KM series, their lowest life, cheapest capacitors for general purpose. They have a black sleeve on them, with a temp rating, the brand, and "VENT" written on them.

However, check out their supposedly better series that we NEVER see:



Flashy right? But my point stands, we're judging these companies for making crap caps when 90% of the time we don't see their caps in the following situations:

-In ideal working conditions
-Being used within spec
-The correctly chosen series of cap being used in the proper application

I see Jwco caps on the outputs of the eBay cheapy chassis PSU's a lot, and they fail there.

However, I have a 200$ fish tank, and the LED lighing has a 680uF 16V Jwco cap on it that's doing the PSU smoothing. It's 7 years old, still tests like brand new.

Probably in a 200$ aquarium it's being used within spec and not going to fail.

It's either a KS or KM series due to the sleeving, which means it's MAX rated for 2000 hours. This tank never shuts down, it's been on for years now.

Now if we put this in perspective to caps from brands like Nichicon, would you take a 1000uF general purpose Nichicon rated for 1000-2000 hours, put it on a cheap PSU that's running it way out of spec, and think it will last? I certainly don't think so.

All I'm trying to say in the end is that with new technology and huge manufacturers like Jwco, Su'Scon, Lelon, Elite, etc, we need to stop blaming them for one bad run as a whole company. I don't think anyone here has ever tested the devices we pull these out of to see if they're the problem, not the caps.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

In my experience and the experience of others here, there is no such thing as a good SMD electrolytic.

Because of wave soldering for the through hole vs. reflow soldering for the SMD lytics perhaps??

That would be something that could stress the cap a bit more...

No one is automatically assuming Chinese brands (electrolytic or otherwise) are indefinitely bad and Japanese brands are magically good just by virtue of their nationality.

Most people are not. Some people are. They go through the interwebs and call every non japanese capacitor crap...
Wouldn't you call that racist?

Just because something doesn't come from some japanese manufacturers doesn't mean it's bad or so...
Especially since every 'japanese' cap in a device that's made in china is also made in china.

Just take a look at the datasheet of for example Teapo SC series. And now Nichicon UPS series. Would you really use the UPS series when it's way worse in every aspect than the Teapo?

Why not be honest and tell it like it is:
In most cases "the japanese" manufacturers don't do caps in the area most chinese ones do. They start somewhere in the middle of most Chinese/Taiwanese manufacturers. That those caps are (a bit) better should be obvious...
But in the end, everyone just cooks with water. So why make a big deal out of the manufacturers origin?!
That cheaper caps don't last long should be rather obvious...

[Behemot]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

Can you list some of those plenty pls?

I can see in that quotation the maniac does not intend to end that crap. WTF is Rigol supposed to do with caps? It's pretty much same PoS as most chinese things, designed by total morons. I just recently acquired the bag of parts neccessary for the refurbishment, praise glory to that guy at EEV forum who actually opened the thing and looked at what's all wrong with it.

[jazzie366]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

Are you a racist?!
Why do you hate the chinese so much?
Did some chinese steal your lollipop when you were smaller??


If they were the same quality, why the hell should they not?!
There is absolutely no reason to assume that.
But if we compare a Mercedes (E or S-Class) against a Smart, we all know what would happen, would we?!
That there are different quality grades is something you don't want to be true. And there are...

And why do YOU assume that the caps are bad when from a "chinese" brand and do the opposite when it's a japanese brand?
Racist?!


Oh and if Chinese would be that bad, how come you use a Rigol scope?
How come we don't hear much about failing Corsair RM (the original) series left and right?
How come that companys using, in your oppinion, shitty caps have no problems whatsoever with their caps but everything else???

Seems to me that caps are overrated. Jon Gerow stated the same...

This sums up my feeling towards caps pretty well. Not all brands are shit, considering most of the time we see them fail in lower end products it's kinda unfair to judge.

Also, what about all the NCC primaries that are failing in TV sets left and right? We've been seeing them either dry up or bloat, plenty of threads about them on this site.

[Wester547]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

Now adays, I don't really have a favorite brand irrespective of their nationality, just certain brands I would use and other brands I would avoid. Those SMD electrolytics drying up is the norm. In my experience and the experience of others here, there is no such thing as a good SMD electrolytic. They dry up and/or outright leak much faster than their through-hole brethren no matter who makes them. Finding case sizes that aren't in the datasheets are simply custom orders. Similarly, there are case sizes in the datasheets that may have never been produced. A capacitor with no series designation can also be a custom series order only sold to OEMs.

Are you a racist?!
Why do you hate the chinese so much?
Did some chinese steal your lollipop when you were smaller??

To be frank, I think people are allowed to their opinions. You needn't be so easily riled up when you see people railing on your favorite brands. Furthermore, one is not racist just because they are deriding the quality of the Chinese/Taiwanese brands. Calling them horrible people would be racist, but all we're effectively doing is calling them out for their premature failures.

And why do YOU assume that the caps are bad when from a "chinese" brand and do the opposite when it's a japanese brand?
Racist?!

No one is automatically assuming Chinese brands (electrolytic or otherwise) are indefinitely bad and Japanese brands are magically good just by virtue of their nationality. It just so happens that the four companies that really allot the proper R&D, QA, and financial resources to making good electrolytics are Nichicon, Nippon Chemi-con, Rubycon, and Panasonic. I'm sure there are good Chinese brands (Man Yue / Samxon) and bad Japanese brands (Toshin Kogyo maybe). Samyoung (NCC's Korean subsidiary) and Samwha (Nichicon's Korean subsidiary) are hit or miss in my experience.

Seems to me that caps are overrated. Jon Gerow stated the same...

Yeah, liquid electrolytic capacitors, to this day, are still a necessary evil. They aren't super-long-life components to begin with, and certainly have their wear-out mechanisms, that is the evaporation of the electrolytic fluid either by diffusing through the rubber bung or even leaking electrolyte once the rubber finally deteriorates enough. Even the big four, most esteemed brands on this board (Rubycon, Nichicon, NCC, and Panasonic again) have all admitted that the maximum estimated service life of a wet electrolytic (or even a solid electrolytic) is 15 years (or 131,400 hours, whether in storage or during operation) due to the degradation of the rubber bung. Of course they can last longer than that, but if they are failing after 15 years, I wouldn't call them crap.

A capacitor is determined to have reached its end-of-life when capacitance, leakage current, and ESR go out of their tolerances or when visual abnormities can be observed (leaking electrolyte at the vent or seal, increased vapor and gas pressure rupturing the can and opening the pressure relief vent and/or blowing out the bung, etc).

One last note, finding a failed electrolytic (or a failed rectifier) here and there does not automatically make the brand bad. As Pete said a few years ago, one should make the distinction between capacitors that have failed before the useful life of the device has ended and capacitors that fail long after.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

chinese crap

Are you a racist?!
Why do you hate the chinese so much?
Did some chinese steal your lollipop when you were smaller??

would survive even so long as these Sanyos and Panasonics did?

If they were the same quality, why the hell should they not?!
There is absolutely no reason to assume that.
But if we compare a Mercedes (E or S-Class) against a Smart, we all know what would happen, would we?!
That there are different quality grades is something you don't want to be true. And there are...

And why do YOU assume that the caps are bad when from a "chinese" brand and do the opposite when it's a japanese brand?
Racist?!


Oh and if Chinese would be that bad, how come you use a Rigol scope?
How come we don't hear much about failing Corsair RM (the original) series left and right?
How come that companys using, in your oppinion, shitty caps have no problems whatsoever with their caps but everything else???

Seems to me that caps are overrated. Jon Gerow stated the same...

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

Mine would be:

Samwha (not wb, wl, xc or ot series) Samyoung, elite, aishi, epcos maybe a brand called Suntan these seem alright lol

[Behemot]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

And you think that chinese crap would survive even so long as these Sanyos and Panasonics did? Come on

[jazzie366]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

The facts are that reputable persons from more reputable manufacturers like TDK Lambda say that it doesn't matter where something comes from. Price and specs do matter.
And everyone that seems trustworthy in this regards says that japanese capacitors are used because they always used it...

Yes there are chinese companys that are just outright lying, but do you really think that applies to the bigger ones like su'scon, CapXon, Elite and the likes??

And if you can't say something about chinese people is that they didn't grasp capitalism. They have. More so than anyother people on the planet...

So they will make everything you might desire in the way you desire...


As for chinese vs. japanese caps:
Why don't we compare Teapo TA/TB/TC and ST against Nippon Cheimicon KZE?
Why don't we compare CapXon FH against Nippon Chemicon KZE?
Why don't we compare ltec LZF or LZR against Nippon Chemicon KZE??
Why don't we compare su'scon HG, HF or HGN against Nippon Chemicon KZE??

Because we might discover that the first ones may be better than the Chemicon KZE??

ANd why don't we stop comparing the worst of the worst one chinese company has to offer against the "mid range/higher end" japanese capacitors?

Like Teapo SC vs. Chemicon KZE. Of course the KZE series is better...
But what about the TA/TB/TC and ST series against KZE?

It's not just NCC KZE anymore either. I've pulled 3 graphics cards out of computers so far, all with bloated Sanyo WG. They didn't fail due to electrolyte failure. They failed because of heat. All of the ones I've encountered that failed were right next to the heatsinks. Meanwhile along with them were Panasonic SMD caps. They kept their capacitance in tolerance, however all had a ESR of .5 or higher. I opened them up and the paper inside seemed fine, not burnt. However, it was definitely dry and devoid of electrolyte.

Granted, these were old timey GPU's, but you never know, they could start failing.

Also, I had opened by printer's power brick because I thought it might be causing my printer to act up. It turned out to be fine, turns out shoddy ebay ink cartridges were making it a little loopy. However, it contained Su'Scon and Lelon inside of it, for the primary side, it had a Lelon 100uF 400V, and a Su'Scon 120uF, 400V. Then the rest on the PSU was the same, a mix of Lelon and Su'Scon. this is about 5 years old now, no signs of failure at all.

The reason I'm saying this is because I've notice two things with shitty chinese products:

If they contain a "decent" cap brand, usually they've used the lowest series of that model, and are almost definitely running it out of spec.

I've come across fakes of the crap brands. I've seen fake ChengX capacitors. ChengX caps, especially the primaries or larger can caps will have a series. I've seen lots of cheapy products with these caps in them, and they've got no series marking on them. The case size also doesn't match up with the case sizing of the PDF chart.

I haven't seen this much, but I have seen it and it's quite interesting. I'm honestly wondering if there are fakes of the trash caps out there.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: If you had to choose a chinese/taiwanese/non japanese capacitor, what would it be

The facts are that reputable persons from more reputable manufacturers like TDK Lambda say that it doesn't matter where something comes from. Price and specs do matter.
And everyone that seems trustworthy in this regards says that japanese capacitors are used because they always used it...

Yes there are chinese companys that are just outright lying, but do you really think that applies to the bigger ones like su'scon, CapXon, Elite and the likes??

And if you can't say something about chinese people is that they didn't grasp capitalism. They have. More so than anyother people on the planet...

So they will make everything you might desire in the way you desire...


As for chinese vs. japanese caps:
Why don't we compare Teapo TA/TB/TC and ST against Nippon Cheimicon KZE?
Why don't we compare CapXon FH against Nippon Chemicon KZE?
Why don't we compare ltec LZF or LZR against Nippon Chemicon KZE??
Why don't we compare su'scon HG, HF or HGN against Nippon Chemicon KZE??

Because we might discover that the first ones may be better than the Chemicon KZE??

ANd why don't we stop comparing the worst of the worst one chinese company has to offer against the "mid range/higher end" japanese capacitors?

Like Teapo SC vs. Chemicon KZE. Of course the KZE series is better...
But what about the TA/TB/TC and ST series against KZE?