KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

What is the DC -current- through a charged cap?
--> 0


And some leakage yes.



What is the total current through the cap?
+ then - then + then - then + then -

What is total voltage on the cap?

+ then + then + then + then + then +

Wrong.
Voltage is in referenced to some other point.
- The AC and DC are referenced to different points.

If the DC is at +12v then the Zero Volts for the AC is at +12v DC.

As the DC results in zero current it doesn't make a lick of difference what it is because it is not causing any electrons to move inside the cap.

Insofar as any electron movement [current] inside the cap the DC volts = zero.


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[Pyr0Beast]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

Voltage is in referenced to some other point.
Does not need to be. Voltage is mere potential between two points. Here we are speaking about voltage on capacitor leads.



If the DC is at +12v then the Zero Volts for the AC is at +12v DC.

Zero Volts for AC can be on 12VDC
Or 0VDC with inverted phase.
Or anywhere in between if you calculate zero voltage from Pk-Pk or RMS voltage.
AC does not need to have 'zero Volts' anywhere as it is relative.
And DC filer on oscilloscope doesn't give a damn about any DC potential and just shows AC waveform.

As I said before. If ripple voltage never causes cap to go reverse biased there is no harm.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

When you gain an understanding of what voltage is you might begin to understand caps.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

Voltage is in referenced to some other point.
Does not need to be. Voltage is mere potential between two points.

You just proved it does need to be.
- The two points.
- Point 1 - The "Reference"
- Point 2 - The point that is some value "Relative" to the reference.

Here we are speaking about voltage on capacitor leads.

I'm glad you caught that.

And DC filer on oscilloscope doesn't give a damn about any DC potential and just shows AC waveform.

And that filter is a CAPACITOR.
- So you've just provided an example that shows exactly what I said is true.

Voltage doesn't go through the cap, current does. <<- Why is this hard to understand???
It's also current that makes the pretty picture on the scope.

There is no DC current through the cap.
There is AC current through the cap and it reveres directions.

- And just like with the scope, it doesn't give a damn about any DC potential, it just passes AC current.

In fact if it didn't -> the Ripple wouldn't be filtered out of the circuit.
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[Pyr0Beast]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

You just proved it does need to be.
- The two points.
- Point 1 - The "Reference"
- Point 2 - The point that is some value "Relative" to the reference.

Both are completely relative to each other. Two points is all you need. Knowing which is which is just polarity or phase inversion issue.

Where would you put reference on charged unpolarised cap ?

And that filter is a CAPACITOR.

Yes it is. Exactly because it removes all DC bias and allows you to observe pure AC.

- So you've just provided an example that shows exactly what I said is true.

Now you are just silly.

Zero volts or zero cross for AC can be anywhere you like. Think why it is like that.

You can subtract from DC, you can add to it or you can modulate it, having adding and substracting averaging at zero of + or ground line.

Voltage doesn't go through the cap, current does. <<- Why is this hard to understand???

Alternating voltage passes easily. So does DC but only until cap is charged.

It's also current that makes the pretty picture on the scope.

Scope measures voltage, not current. If you want to measure current you need series resistor which will have some potential across it which you can then measure.

There is no DC current through the cap.
There is AC current through the cap and it reveres directions.

Nice that you figured it out.

Now do the same with voltages:
There is DC voltage
There is AC voltage

Substract max. AC value from DC voltage and you will get lowest and highest voltage on cap and you will know if cap gets reverse biased.

- And just like with the scope, it doesn't give a damn about any DC potential, it just passes AC current.

It gives a damn. Because it is polarised.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

You are too lost to waste any more of my time with.
.

[Rulycat]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

I think some of you guys need to start some sort of US based cap company and sell to TopCat.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

I was thinkin' go to Mexico for the cheap Labor and form the Mexi-Con capacitor company.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

~ jibberish ~

You are trying to mix the AC and DC as if they are one component and that's not the proper way to do a circuit analysis.

They way you think sending POT and DSL through the same wire would NEVER WORK because they would mix.
- That isn't how things work.

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[Pyr0Beast]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

You are too lost to waste any more of my time with.

I would say quite the same for you.

You are trying to mix the AC and DC as if they are one component and that's not the proper way to do a circuit analysis.

Yes I am. Because that is only thing what matters at capacitor chemistry.

They way you think sending POT and DSL through the same wire would NEVER WORK because they would mix.
- That isn't how things work.

Now you are just ridiculous.

I have VDSL wired that way with POT phone on the same line, WORKING !
32Mbit synchronisation !

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

I have VDSL wired that way with POT phone on the same line, WORKING !
32Mbit synchronisation !

YES, it does work.
- But if what you say about voltages on caps was true, it wouldn't.

- And THAT is what is ridiculous.

[Pyr0Beast]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

YES, it does work.
- But if what you say about voltages on caps was true, it wouldn't.

- And THAT is what is ridiculous.

Too bad as it seems you don't get it. Eh. I have tried.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

Because that is only thing what matters at capacitor chemistry.

And the only way electricity affects chemistry is by CURRENT.

There is AC current. [And the DC voltage is does NOT affect it.]

With the exception of leakage there is no DC current at all.
- And in lytics the majority of leakage is due to the molecules that move in the healing the Oxide layer.. from the damage caused by the AC current.. .. the AC current which isn't affected by the DC voltage at all.

You are trying to add the AC and DC together as if they are one component and they are NOT the same component any more than the DSL and POTs signal are when they co-exist in one circuit.
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

You stick that scope on the DSL + POTS signal and it will display the SUM.
Neither the POTS nor the DSL would work on that signal.
They use filters in the down stream device so it only gets one signal.

You stick that scope on the DC + AC on a filter cap it will display the SUM.
But the cap -IS- a filter to DC. It blocks it. - There is no DC current.
That means the only current passing -through- the cap that could possibly affect it's chemistry is the AC current, which is due to Ripple voltage.
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[Pyr0Beast]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

DC current is not needed. DC potential is.

Same with lead acid batteries. They loose their potential - they degrade.

[Pyr0Beast]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

That means the only current passing -through- the cap that could possibly affect it's chemistry is the AC current, which is due to Ripple voltage.

And its effect is limited by DC bias.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

And its effect is limited by DC bias.

No, it's not..

It's self evident that you don't understand chemistry and how how chemical reactions are affected by current [and vice versa].
.
If you did you would understand how caps [and batteries] work.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

And its effect is limited by DC bias.

So, --> according to you...

If you 'float' that combined DSL + POTS line's signals on 200vdc , which you filter out with a cap before the device , the signal won't pass to the device.

Don't work like that,,, yet that's what you keep saying..
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[Pyr0Beast]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

No, it's not..

It's self evident that you don't understand chemistry and how how chemical reactions are affected by current [and vice versa].
.
If you did you would understand how caps [and batteries] work.

Heh. Can you charge a car battery with AC ?

If you 'float' that combined DSL + POTS line's signals on 200vdc , which you filter out with a cap before the device , the signal won't pass to the device.

Didn't say that.

Don't work like that,,, yet that's what you keep saying..

No, that is what YOU keep _reading_ and _thinking_.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: KZG - KZJ - Same Electrolyte

Heh. Can you charge a car battery with AC ?

Invalid comment.
There is no charging taking place in this discussion about a cap.

If you have a fully charged battery [as with the cap] and you apply AC to it's terminals, what happens?
- That discussion would valid.
- And its a very good analogy of how Ripple damages the oxide layer in caps with DC present.

Didn't say that.

Yes you did. - MANY times.

Problem is you don't understand it [electricity & chemistry] well enough to realize that is what you are saying.

.