Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

[budm]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

We noticed that but because the copper wrapping was still good, we thought it was fine. Do we need to replace that as well? It appears it's just the top plastic part that's broke...

I am not sure if that will cause the problem or not, I believe those two inductors are part of the boost converter circuits.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

When I tried replacing that cap on Q5, capacitor C38, I accidently got a glob of solder between C38 and R29 on the end there. So now, R29 and C38 are both soldered to TP52. It's just the end of R29 and C38, the ones closest to TP52. Is this okay? Or should I try separating them? Originally they were hooked in parallel and C38 went to TP52...this shouldn't cause any problems, right?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

After touching a soldering to the transistor pins and removing the glob between the resistor and capacitor that, the blue light turns on most of the time when I flip the on switch on. Maybe one out of three times it won't turn on and I have to turn it off and back on. But I think that's progress.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

In post #13, the first picture I uploaded shows a little black thing with a circle and some shiny stuff inside. I believe that's the sensor that tells when the mouse is being moved. You can't see from the pictures, but there's a square inside there has marks on it. Perhaps I damaged that? I noticed if I push on that black thing, it'll make the mouse do different things. Perhaps there's a bad solder joint there? I can't get to the pins though, they're under the plastic. I'm afraid if I use hot air, I'll melt the plastic.

[keeney123]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

I think that is some type of photon receiver chip. The light bounces off a surface and the photon receiver must pick it up to tell where it is. Perhaps when one moves the mouse there is a frequency change in the light being received and that tells in which direction it is going? I also thought Y indicated an oscillator to. I always like pictures of the circuit when I am talking about sinking current because to me it is so much easier to understand than trying to describe a picture in words. A Transistor a Bi-polar devices where Fets are uni-polar. Fets are linear devices. Transistors are not necessarily linear. Fets are turned on by a gate or a large enough potential between Drain and Source. The gate controls a channel that the current is flowing through between drain and source. It does this by imposing a charge on the channel. Transistors can have a common gate, common base or a common emitter. The common base is the most widely used. A Transistor can be biased four separate ways. The TTL logic are with a collector connected to the output. It is very noisy and slow. ECL logic is with the emitter connected to the output it is faster than TTL but uses much more current. Both are the design of transistors, bi-polar devices. Then CMOS stepped in which is a FET design N&P channel. They were quicker, linear and supposedly able to handle various different voltages. Latch-up was a problem and has to be consider in the design. That is all I can remember. If I am wrong on some of it I would hope BudM would specify.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

...The common base is the most widely used. A Transistor can be biased four separate ways...

I keep on seeing the word biased. What does that mean? Google says this:

The operating point of a device, also known as bias point, quiescent point, or Q-point, is the point on the output characteristics that shows the DC collector–emitter voltage (Vce) and the collector current (Ic) with no input signal applied. The term is normally used in connection with devices such as transistors.

Is that the definition? If so, I think I'm even more confused by it than before!

I almost want to say I remember transistors could be used in multiple modes. Is that essentially what it's saying?

I found this:

Transistor Biasing is the process of setting a transistors DC operating voltage or current conditions to the correct level so that any AC input signal can be amplified correctly by the transistor

[fzabkar]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

1383, Wireless Mobile Mouse 6000, FCC ID C3K1383:
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...845bfa4e3b.pdf

Exhibits for C3K1383 at FCC database:
https://fccid.io/C3K1383

Internal Photos FCC ID: C3K1383:
https://fccid.io/document.php?id=1094089
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...8a55129079.pdf

[fzabkar]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

Here is the block diagram of the circuit AISI:

          BAT+
 1.7V - 5.5V    ___       1.9V - 3.6V
  EEPROM     |         ___
  24AA32A     |          |     antenna
   4Kx8  .---------------.      |      \|/
   __  |        |   .-----------.    |
  -o| |o--|        |   | wireless |    |
  -o| |o--|   MCU    |-----|transceiver|-------'
  -o| |o--|        |   |      |
  -o|__|o--|        |   | nRF24L01 |
   U2  |        |   '-----------'
      |        |      |
.---------. |        |     _-_
| switches| '---------------'     |___|
|   _/ | |  |  |  |       -   BAT+
| -o/ o-| | _-_ |  |       |    +
|     | | |___| |  | PWM1         |
|  LEDs | |  -  |  |       Y1    |
|  -|<- | |  |  |  |      16MHz  L4 C|
|     |--'    |  |         1R8 C|
| scroll |   Y2  |  |   R29       C|
| wheel |  16MHz |  |   ___       |  D1
|     |     |  | .--|___|--.   Q5 +--->|---+---+---> Vcc1
| opto  |     |  | |     |     |    |  |
| sensor |     |  '--|  ||  |------||-+    |  |
'---------'     |   '----||---'   ||<-    --- --- C34
           |      ||     ||-+    --- ---
           |             |  C33 |  |
           |     C38       |    |  |
           |             +--------+---'
           |             |
           |             ===
           |             BAT-
           |
           |
           |
           |             BAT+
           |             +
           |             |
           |PWM2           |
           |            L5 C|
           |           100 C|
           |      R35      C|
           |      ___      |  D2
           |    .--|___|--.  Q6 +--->|---+---+---> Vcc2
           |    |     |    |    |  |
           '-------|  ||  |-----||-+    |  |
               '----||---'   ||<-    --- --- C41
                 ||     ||-+    --- ---
                        |  C40 |  |
                 C45      |    |  |
                        +--------+---'
                        |
                        ===
                        BAT-

There must be a microcontroller (MCU) at the optical sensor. AFAICT the MCU provides two PWM outputs for two boost converters.

I would measure the voltages across the filter capacitors on each of the Vcc1 and Vcc2 supplies.

[keeney123]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

I keep on seeing the word biased. What does that mean? Google says this:

The operating point of a device, also known as bias point, quiescent point, or Q-point, is the point on the output characteristics that shows the DC collector–emitter voltage (Vce) and the collector current (Ic) with no input signal applied. The term is normally used in connection with devices such as transistors.

Is that the definition? If so, I think I'm even more confused by it than before!

I almost want to say I remember transistors could be used in multiple modes. Is that essentially what it's saying?

I found this:

Transistor Biasing is the process of setting a transistors DC operating voltage or current conditions to the correct level so that any AC input signal can be amplified correctly by the transistor

Forward bias means the negative and positive connections on a transistor are set up DC wise, 0.7 volts, to turn on. So say in a NPN transistor in a common base set up. Common base only means it is common to the input and output circuit. So in a NPN. The P is connected to the base and the N is connected to the Emitter. This would be the input circuit and to forward bias this junction a positive 0.7 volt DC needs to be applied to the base as respect to the emitter. Now this next part will not make since, but it is what one needs to turn on a transistor. Keep in mind the Emitter/ Base is forward biased. The Collector is the other N or negatively dope pole. Again remember this is a Common Base. The other part of a bi-polar transistor in a common base is the collector N and the base P junction. I order for the transistor to work this junction needs to be reversed biased. So a positive DC voltage needs to be put on the Collector N with respect to the Base P. The two conditions above are required to turn on a Bi-polar transistor. In a common base the base is said to be common to the input circuit, emitter/base and the base is common to the output circuit, base/collector.
The input circuit is forward biased and the output circuit is reversed biased. The potential between the emitter N and the collector N is what conducts the current through the transistor. The emitter will have both the base current and the collector current running through it. The base will only have the base current and the collector will only have the collector current. It is much easier to understand with pictures. Perhaps I will sit down with the paint program and draw one.

[fzabkar]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

Sorry, I should have drawn Q5 and Q6 as NPN BJTs, not N-channel MOSFETs.

This part looks like it might be the one:

NSS40201LT1G / NSV40201LT1G, Onsemi, 40V, 2A, Low VCE(sat), NPN Transistor, marking VB, RDSon 44mohm, hfe = 370, SOT-23:
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...eb830320fa.pdf

[fzabkar]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

What's the Xtal? The crystal? If so, yes, I can read it. It says:
CMT-LLAZ1C.

Just FYI, the manufacturer appears to be Commutek.

http://www.commutek.com/?p=6&cat2=3&id=4&s=&lang=en
http://www.commutek.com/?p=6&cat2=3&id=6&s=&lang=en

The part number looks like a special run for Microsoft. The nRF24L01 datasheet specifies 16MHz.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

Thanks for the help. I'm going to have to put the mouse off for a little bit. A family friend had a stroke this morning. Gonna go with my father up to the hospital to visit him. Hopefully it's not too bad. His speech is messed up. We don't know if he has movements in all of his arms / legs yet or not. We got a phone call this morning from his neighbor saying an ambulance just took him to the hospital and it looks like he had a stroke. We don't know if he had it in the middle of the night when he was sleeping or if he just had it in the morning when he was awake. It seems the earlier they catch it, the greater chance there is of the person surviving.

[fzabkar]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

I understand. Lots of medical problems at my end, too. Best wishes.

BTW here is my amended diagram:

          BAT+
 1.7V - 5.5V    ___       1.9V - 3.6V
  EEPROM     |         ___
  24AA32A     |          |     antenna
   4Kx8  .---------------.      |      \|/
   __  |        |   .-----------.    |
  -o| |o--|        |   | wireless |    |
  -o| |o--|   MCU    |   |transceiver|    |
  -o| |o--|        |-----|  U3   |-------'
  -o|__|o--|   DSP    |   | nRF24L01 |
   U2  |        |   '-----------'
      |   U1    |      |
.---------. |        |   Y1 _-_
| switches| '---------------'  16MHz |___|
|   _/ |  |  |  |  |       -    BAT+
| -o/ o-|  | _-_ |  |       |    +
|     |  | |___| |  | PWM1         |
|  LEDs |  |  -  |  |           |
|  -|<- |  |  |  |  |          L4 C|
|     |---'    |  |         1R8 C|
| scroll |   Y2  |  |   390R       C|
| wheel |  16MHz |  |   R29       |  D1
|     |      |  |   ___       +--->|---+---+---> Vcc1
| opto  |      |  | .--|___|--.     |    |  |
| sensor |      |  | |     |    |/     |  |
'---------'      |  '--|  ||  |-------| Q5   --- --- C34
           |   '----||---'    |>    --- ---
           |      ||       |  C33 |  |
           |             |    |  |
           |     C38       +--------+---'
           |             |
           |             ===
           |             BAT-
           |
           | Q5/Q6 = NSS40201LT1G
           |
           |             BAT+
           |             +
           |             |
           |PWM2           |
           |            L5 C|
           |           100 C|
           |     800R      C|
           |      R35      |  D2
           |      ___      +--->|---+---+---> Vcc2
           |    .--|___|--.    |    |  |
           |    |     |   |/     |  |
           '-------|  ||  |------| Q6   --- --- C41
               '----||---'   |>    --- ---
                  ||      |  C40 |  |
                         |    |  |
                 C45      +--------+---'
                         |
                        ===
                        BAT-

[keeney123]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

Sorry to hear about your friend.
When you come back to the mouse we will be here. Fzabkar has endless resources. I do not know where he gets all that info. BudM is just an all around great person to work with and me I will help you what I can.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

We bought a new mouse. I think I'm just going to write this Microsoft one off. I feel terrible about breaking it. I've started to work on writing code for a programmable interrupt controller. Learning about debouncing right now. Thanks for the help with everything though guys.

Also, my dad went to the doctors. My sister went with him and told the doctor of some of the trouble he's been having. The doctor said there's no test but it sounds like my father has dementia. Family friend in the hospital for a stroke, dad might have dementia, my mum's got chronic kidney disease, stage 3b...just gonna be a terrible Christmas this year I guess. At least I'll still be able to see and be with both my parents for Christmas this year, that's a plus I guess.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

I understand. Lots of medical problems at my end, too. Best wishes.

BTW here is my amended diagram:

          BAT+
 1.7V - 5.5V    ___       1.9V - 3.6V
  EEPROM     |         ___
  24AA32A     |          |     antenna
   4Kx8  .---------------.      |      \|/
   __  |        |   .-----------.    |
  -o| |o--|        |   | wireless |    |
  -o| |o--|   MCU    |   |transceiver|    |
  -o| |o--|        |-----|  U3   |-------'
  -o|__|o--|   DSP    |   | nRF24L01 |
   U2  |        |   '-----------'
      |   U1    |      |
.---------. |        |   Y1 _-_
| switches| '---------------'  16MHz |___|
|   _/ |  |  |  |  |       -    BAT+
| -o/ o-|  | _-_ |  |       |    +
|     |  | |___| |  | PWM1         |
|  LEDs |  |  -  |  |           |
|  -|<- |  |  |  |  |          L4 C|
|     |---'    |  |         1R8 C|
| scroll |   Y2  |  |   390R       C|
| wheel |  16MHz |  |   R29       |  D1
|     |      |  |   ___       +--->|---+---+---> Vcc1
| opto  |      |  | .--|___|--.     |    |  |
| sensor |      |  | |     |    |/     |  |
'---------'      |  '--|  ||  |-------| Q5   --- --- C34
           |   '----||---'    |>    --- ---
           |      ||       |  C33 |  |
           |             |    |  |
           |     C38       +--------+---'
           |             |
           |             ===
           |             BAT-
           |
           | Q5/Q6 = NSS40201LT1G
           |
           |             BAT+
           |             +
           |             |
           |PWM2           |
           |            L5 C|
           |           100 C|
           |     800R      C|
           |      R35      |  D2
           |      ___      +--->|---+---+---> Vcc2
           |    .--|___|--.    |    |  |
           |    |     |   |/     |  |
           '-------|  ||  |------| Q6   --- --- C41
               '----||---'   |>    --- ---
                  ||      |  C40 |  |
                         |    |  |
                 C45      +--------+---'
                         |
                        ===
                        BAT-

I hope your medical problems get fixed. Hopefully it's nothing too serious.

[keeney123]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

Just do not let it overwhelm You. What I do is to take a break from it and do something different. Make sure you take care of yourself and treat yourself to things you enjoy a lot. That way you will have the strength to then take care of your love ones.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

Thanks

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

It seems the earlier they catch it, the greater chance there is of the person surviving.

errr... to be precise, its the quicker the patient reaches the hospital for treatment, the better the chances that the brain damage from the stroke can be reversed.

its possible to suffer a paralysing/crippling very serious type of stroke that renders a patient into a near-vegetative state (but not in a cardiac arrest type of state) but if the patient is ventilated well with a liberal amount of 100% oxygen via a rebreather mask and he gets to the hospital in a couple of minutes, its possible for the brain damage from the stroke to be completely reversed and u'd be shocked to see the patient playing football upon release from the hospital!

just a word of basic first aid advice for dealing with a stroke patient: avoid crowding around a person who just had a stroke! it deprives him of valuable oxygen he needs to reduce brain damage from the stroke as much as possible until he reaches the hospital! if u see a crowd around a *suspected* stroke patient, disperse the crowd away asap!

just gonna be a terrible Christmas this year I guess. At least I'll still be able to see and be with both my parents for Christmas this year, that's a plus I guess.

well, all i can wish u this christmas and star wars season is merry christmas and may the health be with you.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help identifying value of this bad SMD cap.

Thanks ChaosLegionnaire. Someone recently told me the best thing you could do for someone having a stroke was to give them aspirin. I know this is true for heart attack victims but for stroke victims, I would think if the stroke was from an aneurysm, aspirin would make it worse. You see to know a lot about medical stuff. Do you think I'm right in thinking it'd be bad to give someone who had a stroke aspirin? Best to just call 911 or try to get them to the ER as soon as possible, right? The friend I know, he was airlifted and they flew over our house. We didn't know at the time that it was him flying over. He's still in the ICU.