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    #1

    Please help with MSI-7184 issues

    I am currently working on a computer for a friend. He's got an HP m7334n Media Center Computer with an MSI-7184 mainboard in it. He said a few days ago when he woke up in the morning the computer's fans were on high and the computer was locked up with a blank screen. I brought it home and attempted diagnosing the issue.

    The computer boots now, but the display is all wiggly. I can read the text but there are lots of lines running through everything (kinda hard to explain) It also won't see the SATA hard drive in bios, so it won't boot to windows.

    After looking at the mainboard I notice a capacitor near the GPU (this computer uses onboard video) that is bulging a little at the top. I'm sure this cap is probably causing the video issue, but could it cause the hard drive issue as well?
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

    At this point it could be a number of things but blown caps will screw up some or all of the voltages on the board. - Things don't work with the wrong voltages... including video chips and drive controllers.

    #1 - Stop connecting that hard drive to it and use one with no important data on it.
    - You could lose EVERYTHING if you don't.

    #2 - Try using a known good PSU. Caps go phewy in PSUs nearly as often as on motherboards.

    #3 - Take a CLOSE look at those motherboard (and PSU) caps and at any near by components. Look for swollen or leaky caps and any signs of overheating.

    #1 - DON'T USE THE DATA HARD DRIVE!

    Did I say #1 twice?

    .
    Mann-Made Global Warming.
    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
    -
    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
    - Dr Seuss
    -
    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
    -

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

      To answer your last question.

      YES

      A bad cap anywhere -could- cause problems in other places on the board.

      That cap in the video area of the board is connected through the MoBo to the power supply. At some point it will affect the output voltage of the power supply and that will affect everything else on that voltage rail.
      - It (that cap) is probably on the +12v or +5v rail and hard drives use both of those rails.
      .
      Mann-Made Global Warming.
      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
      -
      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
      - Dr Seuss
      -
      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
      -

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

        Do you think that if I can tell the one cap is bad visually, that I should replace them all since they're the same brand? I've been searching for a new motherboard but can't find one anywhere online, so I'm thinking about repairing this one. Do you think that replacing the caps would fix it?

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

          Or at least replace all of the teapo caps anyways?

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

            Teapo are often bad but not always. [Bad more often than not from 2000 to 2004-ish.]
            I suspect that Teapo acquires their raw materials from different sources every few batches and so the quality of their product is inconsistent. (Just my guess. Not a fact.)

            -
            Yes if you visually ID one as bad then replace all of that make and series.

            If you can give us the make/series (or at least the make) of the caps on the board we can tell you which have a known bad history.

            MSI in fact has a bad history of using bad caps.
            [And of being 'slow learners'.]

            Teapo is not the only crap cap MSI has used.

            .
            Mann-Made Global Warming.
            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
            -
            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
            - Dr Seuss
            -
            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
            -

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

              The cap that is bulging says

              SM 105o C
              1000uF
              6.3v
              Teapo

              I'm having a hard time figuring out which capacitor to buy to replace that one. There are more specs on the mouser website than the cap has on it. I don't know what specs can be different and which can't. I'm pretty good with electronics and the basic principals, but when it comes to the specifics like ripple, esr, and temps, I'm not sure what to buy.

              I really appreciate your help by the way.

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                Teapo SM, 1000uF 6.3v
                8x15mm
                Ripple = 950 (use that much or more)
                ESR = 0.053 (use that much or less)

                MoBo caps are 105c for temp.

                Ripple/ESR is easy to match/beat on that one.
                It's low ESR,,,, but not very.

                [Teapo's Ripple/ESR ratings in the SM series chart don't follow with other manufacturers. Typically (with all the major brands) a 950 Ripple would be around .065 or higher for ESR. I think Teapo stretched the truth a bit in this chart on the ESR ratings. - Just my opinion.]

                The hard part may be finding 1000uF 6.3v in an 8mm diameter.
                If you have room you can use a 10mm can instead.
                (Will probably have to bend leads. 8mm is usually 3.5mm lead spacing and 10mm usually 5mm lead spacing. - Also watch you aren't shorting anything to the can.)

                A 1000uF 10v 8mm or 10mm would probably be fine there and may be easier to find.
                A 1200uF cap should also be fine.

                I would replace all the SM on that board if one is bad.

                Going to a 10mm can may work in some positions and not others depending on how the board is arranged.

                Chemicon KZE series has both an 8mm 1200uF 6.3v and a 8mm 1000uF 10v in the series.
                Either of those will exceed the original SM's ratings (in the good direction) by a good margin. The best part is KZE are easy to find and tend to be less expensive than many others. Digikey carries KZE. - If all else fails in finding a replacement then Badcaps net can sell you some Rubycon or Samxon which WAY WAY exceed the SM's specs.

                .
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                  You see, the problem is many of the 'crap brands' make 1000uf 6.3v 8mm but almost none of the 'good brands' make caps in that size/value combination.

                  The only exact matches I can find are in
                  Sanyo WG series.
                  Panasonic FJ series.

                  Sanyo part number 6ME1000WG is
                  8mm x 11.5mm 1000uF 6.3v Ripple=1140 ESR=0.038

                  Panasonic part number is EEUFJ0J102U
                  8mm x 11.5mm 1000uF 6.3v Ripple=1140 ESR=0.030
                  -
                  Specs for Panasonic FL series are probably the same as the FJ series.
                  (I don't have a data sheet for FL, just specs on a few sizes and they match.)
                  The FL part number would probably be: EEUFL0J102U
                  [The "U" on the end is the only thing I'm not sure about.]
                  The "0" in the part numbers are zeros and not letters.

                  .
                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                  -
                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                  - Dr Seuss
                  -
                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                  -

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                    There is also a possibility that the VGA GPU/RAM became Corrupted/Damaged, This often creates strange (most times) Purple/Pink white blocks on your screen.
                    Beside a bulged cap needs to be replaced anyway.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                      Would this capacitor work as a replacement?

                      http://www.mouser.com/search/Product...47-UHE0J102MPD

                      Manufacturer Part #: UHE0J102MPD
                      Manufacturer: Nichicon
                      Description: Low Impedance Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - 105 Degree 6.3V 1000uF 8X15 20%Tol 3.5LS 105Deg

                      I'm using mouser.com to check for parts since I only need like one or two of each peice. Or maybe you have a better suggestion of where to buy the caps you suggested.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                        Umm,
                        Considering the GPU RAM is not getting good clean power it is no doubt corrupt.
                        [duh]

                        Bad video memory is not going to bloat a cap.
                        (Or cause a hard drive to not work.)

                        ....

                        Wow... This is a socket 939 board.
                        MSI is never gonna learn are they.....
                        Mann-Made Global Warming.
                        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                        -
                        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                        - Dr Seuss
                        -
                        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                        -

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                          Ok now I'm confused. Are you saying that the memory is possibly screwed up, or just that the capacitor being messed up is screwing up the data in the memory?

                          The parts you reccommended have a lead spacing of 5mm and I think it's supposed to be 3.5. The cap is 8mm diameter x 15mm tall.
                          Last edited by renegade_00; 11-28-2007, 10:03 PM.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                            UHE0J102MPD
                            Ripple=840
                            ESR=0.087

                            Rating of original:
                            Ripple = 950 (use that much or more)
                            ESR = 0.053 (use that much or less)

                            The HE is rated worse than the original which is why I didn't mention them.
                            -
                            If it was for a general cap (out by the PCI slots or those random caps scattered about a board) then an HE series would be just fine. - The one you specifically mentioned is in/near the GPU and may NEED the slightly higher rating. Often those are in a localized voltage regulator. I can't see your board. I don't know if there is a regulator right near that cap or not so I 'failed safe' in my recommendation.

                            This one will do the job and have you covered on the ratings too.

                            http://www.mouser.com/search/Product...47-UHM0J102MPD

                            The HM series had a problem for a short time (manufacturing error) but that was over in early 2004 and Mouser isn't going to stock old or known bad parts.

                            .
                            Mann-Made Global Warming.
                            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                            -
                            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                            - Dr Seuss
                            -
                            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                            -

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                              I'm saying the the cap being screwed up is obviously going to screw up the memory powered by it. (In this case video memory.)

                              Yes, I mentioned you would have to bend the leads to use a 10mm a few posts back.
                              That's a normal every day procedure in electronics work.

                              The problem with going up in diameter on motherboards is that they usually have components packed in high density (close together) and there isn't always room for bigger caps.
                              On the plus side physically larger caps usually have lower ESR within whatever series it is.
                              Mann-Made Global Warming.
                              - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                              -
                              Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                              - Dr Seuss
                              -
                              You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                              -

                              Comment

                                #16
                                Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                                I don't know where you are getting your information but both Sanyo 6ME1000WG and Panasonic EEUFJ0J102U have a 3.5mm lead spacing.
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment

                                  #17
                                  Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                                  Originally posted by PCBONEZ
                                  Umm,
                                  Considering the GPU RAM is not getting good clean power it is no doubt corrupt.
                                  [duh]

                                  Bad video memory is not going to bloat a cap.
                                  (Or cause a hard drive to not work.)
                                  I mean the onboard GPU part probably embedded in the northbridge itself could be physically damaged due to overheating/voltage spikes due to the badcap. (Teapo often fail without a bulge so a bulging Teapo cap is really big crap). I had a similar failure on a nForce 430/6100 system. Mainboard worked fine with an VGA card.

                                  Comment

                                    #18
                                    Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                                    Yeah I knew exactly what you meant. I've been in electronics since 1981.

                                    1) That does happen,,, but very rarely.
                                    2) You can't determine if it happened unless you replace the cap.

                                    The only way to find out is to replace the cap,,,,
                                    ... so stop scaring the guy with a 1 in 1000 chance it won't work before he's even tried anything.

                                    .
                                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                    -
                                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                    - Dr Seuss
                                    -
                                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                    -

                                    Comment

                                      #19
                                      Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                                      Well I'm going to order up the caps I need and try to fix this board. I'll be back to ask more questions or to post the status of the board once I'm done. Thanks again guys for the help. You rock!

                                      Comment

                                        #20
                                        Re: Please help with MSI-7184 issues

                                        I have exactly the same problem with exactly the same computer and board, so I wish the person here had posted his final results. I'm leaning toward getting a different computer rather than fix something that has a reputation for being second rate, and simply salvage what I can out of it.

                                        Comment

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