how good are panasonic FL caps?

[ChaosLegionnaire]

cuz i also have another motherboard that might need a pre-emptive recap. its an asus a8v socket 939 amd athlon 64 board and uses the following caps:

4 x 1000uF 16V 0.018 Ohms 1870mA Nichicon HM(M) A0506 8mm(Ø) x 20mm(H) @ CPU VRM In Area
6 x 1500uF 6.3V 0.021 Ohms 1870mA Nippon Chemicon KZG 8mm(Ø) x 20mm(H) @ CPU VRM Out Area

i found a panasonic FL 1800uF 6.3V 8mm(Ø) x 20mm(H) that might be a possible candidate to replace the KZGs. however, i cant find any datasheets for panny FL that state the ripple and esr of the FL caps. so i need some advice here if panny FL are good and suitable. also, is FJ better than FL?

the board is still currently working fine and im surprised that im able to overclock my cpu to the holy grail of 3ghz using only 1.375V in the BIOS with these lemon caps: HM with faulty electrolytic formula used between 2002-2005 and the infamous FAIL of KZG.

im probably thinking of leaving it overclocked 24/7 to see how long the lemon juice will last haha~ that way, i have motivation to recap it once its spoilt lol (on a serious note, i must recap my socket 478 875p board first keke )

[c_hegge]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

Panny FL will be fine to replace the KZGs. Spec wise, I think they may be slightly superior, but panny don't publish the datasheets.

What's more of a concern is where you are getting them from. Panny don't normally sell their caps to anyone except for motherboard manufacturers, so you could have fakes. Do you have any pictures of them?

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

hmm got another question. since the difference in capacitance for each cap is 300uF, is it okay if i replace the 6 KZGs with 5 FLs? the total capacitance will still be 9000 uF, but will it affect the esr and/or ripple if i use 5 caps instead of 6? please advise. thanks.

[momaka]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

hmm got another question. since the difference in capacitance for each cap is 300uF, is it okay if i replace the 6 KZGs with 5 FLs? the total capacitance will still be 9000 uF, but will it affect the esr and/or ripple if i use 5 caps instead of 6? please advise. thanks.

Just use all 6 caps, even if the capacitance is a little higher. I am pretty sure it won't cause a problem. Actually, I'm surprised the VRM output has only 6 caps at 1500 uF. Most boards with so few caps usually have 2200 or 3300 uF with same or better-rated capacitor series (in terms of ripple current and ESR).

The Nichicon HM maybe be fine. IIRC, 2004 was actually the last year for their problems. Most of 2005 (if not all) should be okay. And definitely don't change them unless you are sure you are getting real Panasonic FL caps. Lots of fakes on ebay.

As far as Panasonic FJ and FL - I'm not sure which is better, but I do remember reading an old post here that they are more or less equivalent in terms of ESR just going by their case sizes.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

just recapped the board with panny FLs today. they seem genuine as i have other panny FJs to compare the markings against. could be very good fakes but doesnt look like it. keke~

however, when i measured their in-circuit esr, i was disappointed to find they had slightly higher esr than the KZGs. the FLs had roughly 22-23 milliohms esr. btw, i did replace all 6 caps, instead of using only 5. i figured more caps in parallel wud mean better esr and wanted to compare it against the KZGs esr-wise.

maybe i should have gotten sanyo WGs instead but hesitated as they had two different versions of 8x20mm caps. one with 19 milliohms and another version with 16 milliohms. not sure which one i wud get and didnt wanna play the cap lottery. so went with FLs instead... ah well... lesson learnt. only stick with products with known published stats and figures...

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

lol had another scare yesterday when i tried to boot winxp with the new caps. it wud keep freezing 5-10 secs into the boot screen. also tried ubuntu off a live dvd and it also crashed with a kernel panic about a cpu related error.

had a scare then. thought i might've hosed the board during soldering or didnt seat the cpu back in the socket properly. (those things have got so many pins!)

i then decided to run memtest for a few passes to find out what is the root of the freezing problem. surprisingly, memtest returned zero errors after 4 hrs and didnt freeze either after running for 4 hrs.

then i decided to boot ubuntu off the live dvd again and this time it booted without problem. i rebooted and tried it again to make sure it wasnt a fluke and it still consistently booted without error. tried booting it a few times with the cpu overclocked to 3ghz and it still booted fine without error. phew~

i then proceeded to boot winxp again and it succeeded too! yay! but lest the celebration be premature, i decided to stress test the cpu overclocked with both occt cpu tests. both tests ran for one and a half hours each without errors or freezing. so oh yay the system works fine again.

im guessing the earlier freezing problem occured because the FL caps i bought most likely were old stock and were kept for donkey years and so needed a few hours of burn-in to restore their oxide layer to working condition. im just glad i finally had my first successful recap after my earlier failed attempt to restore my msi 875p board to working condition. well much better for my morale now...

[theOracle]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

Panny don't normally sell their caps to anyone except for motherboard manufacturers, so you could have fakes.

this is not true, both Digi-Key and Mouser are both listed on the Panasonic website as authorized distributors of Panasonic electrolytic capacitors in USA! - Both of these companies will sell even a single capacitor, no minimum order.

[retiredcaps]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

I think c_hegge meant just the FL series is not available to consumers possibly because they are discontinued and replaced by FM?

Of course, Panasonic's low ESR caps like FR, FM and FC have been widely recommended here and available from both digikey and mouser.

[momaka]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

I think c_hegge meant just the FL series is not available to consumers possibly because they are discontinued and replaced by FM?

Actually FM/FR are lower class than FL, FJ, and FJS. But yes, IIRC, FL, FJ, and FJS are available for (possibly larger) manufacturers only.

[theOracle]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

Actually FM/FR are lower class than FL, FJ, and FJS.

without spec sheets being available, how can you make this statememt? - Are you Kreskin?

[c_hegge]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

We do have a leaked Panny FJ datasheet somewhere here.

[momaka]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

In Xbox 360s, I often see Nichicon HN, Rubycon MCZ, Sanyo WG (very rarely, and only in older 360s) and Panasonic FL used intercheangeably.

And IIRC, according to PCBONEZ, FL and FJ are more or less equivalent. I think there was indeed a leeked partial FL/FJ data sheet here somewhere (I tried looking for it before but couldn't find it, though).

As far as FJS - those are probably more on par with Rubycon MBZ, again based on what I have seen on computer motherboards.

[sofTest]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

I think there was indeed a leeked partial FL/FJ data sheet here somewhere (I tried looking for it before but couldn't find it, though).

FJ datasheet enclosed.

[momaka]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

^ Wow, THANK YOU!!!

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

just an update, after "burning in" the FL caps i had by running them for a couple of weeks, i measured the esr again and found them to be the same with the KZGs. so i think we can assume FLs and KZGs have the same specs esr-wise.

cos if u rank the caps in descending order of esr, u have FJ > FM > FR. (note: the 10x12.5 and 10x20 FM and FR have got different esr). so if u go by the second letter of the series, it seems the higher alphabet has higher esr so FL shud have slightly higher esr than FJ.

just trying to make an educated guess, so if someone else needs to use FL they know where it stands instead of groping in the dark like me...

[kc8adu]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

just got a hp sff box with 1 failed 1800@6.3 fl.
box is clean and no power supply problems or dead fans.
odd.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

lol no surprise there if its a sff toaster box. even good caps die due to high temps.

where is it situated anyway? sumtimes there are certain deadzone areas in cases with still air and no moving air. the fl might be in one of those deadzones.

[jesusconverse]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

hey guys can you tell me if these are fakes or not ,please reply quickly so i may buy them or not

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

[mariushm]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

Why bother, when you can get Panasonic FM and FR from Digikey or Mouser or Newark/Farnell ?

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksea...ity=0&PV13=229

[c_hegge]

Re: how good are panasonic FL caps?

^
FM and FR are not on par with and are not suitable substitutes for FJ. Those places do have Nichicon HM, though, which are the same as FJ.