Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

this video shows testing for a ipm short?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEETsXWUkM

Okay, so I pulled the X-SUS board again and the fuses are definitely good (I checked them again yesterday, just to make sure). I noticed though that the pins for the IPMs are not labeled. I've tried finding a service manual for this television but I'm not having much luck.

I found one for the Philips 50PF9830A/37 (which this TV is) but it's listed as being for chassis EJ3.0U PA. On the back of this TV, on the metal bezel that I had to remove to get to the circuit boards, I see above the model number, in a square box, SBP2.1U AA

I believe SBP2.1U AA is the chassis number for this television. The service manual for the EJ3.0U PA have pictures of the inside of the television and it does not look like the inside of this one at all. This one has the Y-SUS and X-SUS boards, but connected to the Y-SUS is an upper and lower buffer (I believe it's called a buffer). There's also three buffers at the top of the TV and three buffers at the bottom. Here's a copy of the service manual I found.

Without finding the proper service manual, it might be very hard to find the pinouts of the IPMs on the X-SUS board. Any suggestions?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

I think I found a bad resistor. It's on the PSU. It's one of those big ones, like a 1/4 watt or whatever you call them. I'll pull it to test. I found test points on the board, Ve, Vs, Vset, Vscan, and I get voltage readings from those! So I trace the Vs that goes from the test point towards the X-SUS connector on the power supply, right? There's a big ass resistor there. With reference to ground, I measure on the side of the resistor closest to the test point somewhere around 174V. On the other side of the resistor though, absolutely nothing! To me, this says the resistor is bad.

What do you guys think?

[vinceroger69]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

this video shows testing for a ipm short?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEETsXWUkM

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Thanks for the info on the peak atlas it good to hear from someone who has it themselves ive only done two repairs on plasmas and both panasonic 10 blink issues so hopefully someone with phillips experience will advise you but that tuner board certaily looks bad theres a few videos on you tube regarding testing the ipm for shorts etc not sure if you have saw them?

I haven't seen them, but I did see a video where a guy removed the heatsink to work on the IPM. From what he was saying, desoldering braid isn't going to do the trick because of something about a multilayered PCB. He uses a thermocouple to watch the temperature (something I can do) and then a preheater to heat the board to 100C and then a desoldering gun that has a vacuum pump built in to remove the solder. I have everything but the desoldering gun. I don't even have a manual desoldering pump.

I ordered a replacement X-SUS. Maybe we should just wait to see what happens when it comes? For the tuner, do you think it's a wise idea to replace the entire board? I'm trying to remove that nasty stuff on it, but it's really caked on. I doubt removing it will fix it, but I dunno, maybe there's an SMD capacitor under there that exploded or something?

[vinceroger69]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Thanks for the info on the peak atlas it good to hear from someone who has it themselves ive only done two repairs on plasmas and both panasonic 10 blink issues so hopefully someone with phillips experience will advise you but that tuner board certaily looks bad theres a few videos on you tube regarding testing the ipm for shorts etc not sure if you have saw them?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

some testers can test in circuit like the peak atlas esr 70 (well says it can not 100% sure as dont have this tester) i have plastic handled screw drivers so dont have this issue myself when adjusting pre sets (maybe wrap yours in insulation tape if your worried) as not sure if you can get a shock from the pre sets but yes capacitor tops and also some heat sinks are live trust me ive found out by accident. im not sure why on the x sus board you dont get any readings hopefully a more exprienced member will advise

Thanks for the tips. I've adjusted the Vs voltage to 200VDC. It took very fine adjustments, but didn't change anything, from what we can see.

I do have an Peak Atlas ESR 70+ meter and although it can test in circuit, it cannot test in circuit always. It can only test in circuit when it's a very simple circuit. Things like capacitors in parallel instead of series makes it not reliable when testing in circuit and according to peak, one should always unhook the cap just to be certain. So it's pretty pointless testing in circuit, from my understanding, unless of course, you have a very thorough understanding of the circuit and how it works, but even then, the results are not reliable.

I've been testing the X-SUS board by measuring the pins on the power supply side. If the X-SUS IPM is blown, that could cause a short-circuit, right? Would a short-circuit explain no reading on any of the pins? Or is there something wrong with the PSU?

I took out the logic / main board. The one that has the blinking green LED. I removed the cover from the tuner. It has black stuff that appears to have leaked out from something. I don't think the tuner is easily repairable. Even if I desolder it, I don't think I can get to the circuit board. Is it safe to order a replacement logic board that has the same part number but is from a different television? I can't find one for this TV.

ShopJimmy has one with this part number. The part number is 310431360376. http://www.shopjimmy.com/philips-310...main-board.htm E-Bay has a few with that number. Cheapest is around 20$ (free shipping). I'd probably order off e-bay, to save some money....I'm just afraid there's going to be firmware or something that communicates with some other board and a replacement main board won't work if it's from another tv.

[vinceroger69]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

some testers can test in circuit like the peak atlas esr 70 (well says it can not 100% sure as dont have this tester) i have plastic handled screw drivers so dont have this issue myself when adjusting pre sets (maybe wrap yours in insulation tape if your worried) as not sure if you can get a shock from the pre sets but yes capacitor tops and also some heat sinks are live trust me ive found out by accident. im not sure why on the x sus board you dont get any readings hopefully a more exprienced member will advise

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

ve should be 90v as per panel sticker so start by testing all the ones you can find and adjust to the panel sticker voltage (mark the adjusters with a marker pen just incase it makes things worse you can always put them back to where they was then)
Have you tested all the capacitors for correct uf/esr just incase any need replacing first.

Okay, so I was reading the sticker right, that's good. I only replaced the one bulging cap on the Y-SUS board. It will be a nightmare to pull every single cap on every single board to test the ESR / farad rating. Is there a board in particular I should be testing? Like the power supply board? Even that one has a very large number of capacitors. I almost feel like if I'm going to pull every cap on that power supply, I should just recap the entire power supply with new capacitors.....

For adjusting that Vs one, the pot is real close to a metallic heatsink. I only have metallic screw drivers. Do I have to be really careful when adjusting that, so I don't accidently let the screw drive touch a heatsink or something? The youtube video guy said don't touch the caps when it's on, don't touch the heatsinks when it's on. I've never known heatsinks to be "live", but I sure as heck don't want to find out that they are on this plasma!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Okay, for the board that says X-Main Driver (the X-SUS board), I don't get any readings at all for any of the pins. They're all floating or whatever you call it. If I leave the probe on long enough, it might go to something like -160mV after a very long time, but it's hard to tell if it's really reading that or not. Without the probe hooked at all, it just bounces around. Even if I set the DMM to not auto-ranging, at such a small resolution, it jumps by itself.

For the board that says Y-Main (the Y-SUS board), I get:

Vs:   194.7VDC
Vs:   194.7VDC
Vset:  195.2VDC
Vscan: -174.5VDC
Vg:   15.18VDC
D5V:   5.19VDC

So vScan would need adjusting a little, according to the sticker, and Vs needs adjusting.

Because none of the connectors for the X-Main Drive board (the X-SUS board) have any readings at all, does that confirm the X-SUS is bad or does it imply there's something wrong with the PSU?

[vinceroger69]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

ve should be 90v as per panel sticker so start by testing all the ones you can find and adjust to the panel sticker voltage (mark the adjusters with a marker pen just incase it makes things worse you can always put them back to where they was then)
Have you tested all the capacitors for correct uf/esr just incase any need replacing first.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Anything electrical can kill you, just dont touch things while its on unless yours sure it isnt passing a voltage Ie grounded heatsinks. Also test Ve should be 98v or so. Ive been shocked by a ccfl inveter before (my fault being careless-1000v) that made my shoulder hurt for a while I tell yoy.

Am I reading the sticker wrong? Should Ve be 98VDC or should it be 90VDC? Also, what's the Vg pins for? I'm going to test all the pins for the X-SUS and Y-SUS, the ones that the sticker lists at least.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Here's a picture of the voltage sticker.

If I'm reading it correctly, Va should be 70VDC. 5V2 (can't find a potentiometer to adjust that) should be 5.2VDC, Vsc (or VScan) should be -175VDC. 5Vsw (don't know what that is yet, can't find a pot) should be 5.2VDC. Vs should be 200VDC. 8V6 should be 8.6VDC (can't find a pot), Ve should be 90VDC. 12V should be 12VDC. VSet should be 195VDC. Vsc_H should be -55VDC (can't find a pot, I believe this is scan high bias (Created by the DC-DC power block of the Y Drive board)). Snd_P should be 18.0VDC (can't find a pot, I think it's sound positive), Snd_N should be -18.0VDC.

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Anything electrical can kill you, just dont touch things while its on unless yours sure it isnt passing a voltage Ie grounded heatsinks. Also test Ve should be 98v or so. Ive been shocked by a ccfl inveter before (my fault being careless-1000v) that made my shoulder hurt for a while I tell yoy.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Okay, I got some measurements.

THe X-SUS Vs signals (there's two), reading from the power supply board with the DMM on auto-range, just bounces all over, meaning there's no voltage going there. The Y-SUS board though shows 194.7VDC on both Vs signals.

If I'm reading the sticker right, that Vs should read 200VDC. The sticker is a table though and it's a little confusing to read. I believe I have to adjust the Vs potentiometer. There's potentiometers for Ve, Vs, Va, VScan, VSet, and 12V. I have connections on the X-SUS and Y-SUS (not all connections are on both connectors) for Vs, Ve, VScan, VSet, D5V. I haven't checked the other voltages yet though.

I was watching a youtube video on how to test the various boards. The guy says you can unhook the Y-SUS connector from the PSU, turn on the TV, see if the problem goes away, if not, hook it back up, then do the same for the X-SUS. When we unhook the X-SUS, the problem is still the same. When we unhook the Y-SUS, there's no picture at all.

Should I adjust the voltages now or wait until the used X-SUS board gets here?

Also, there's a blinking LED on the logic board. There's also a steady LED on the logic board. One's blinking, one isn't.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Quick question here. With a normal LCD or LED television, the voltage and amperage is high enough to give me a nasty shock if I do something wrong, but from what I've read, with Plasmas, it might be high enough to actually kill me. So I'm trying to be extra safe.

Anyway, with a normal TV, I might keep some of the ribbon cables unhooked from the T-CON board for testing purposes. With boards like the X-SUS, there's three ribbon cables that go to (I'm assuming) the panel. Is it okay to power up the TV with those ribbon cables unplugged, for testing purposes? Or would that be a really bad idea?

Thanks!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Order the Xsus see if it fixes it, to test it use bcn and google to find how to test Ve voltage and sus output voltages from the Xsus.

What's bcn? Do you mean Badcaps.net? Maybe I should have tested the Ve voltage and sus output voltages from the Xsus before ordering the replacement Xsus.

Was I right about the functions of the X-Sus and Y-Sus boards? If I am, I'm curious as to why there weren't any vertical lines with the bad cap that was on the Y-SUS board....from what we can tell, replacing that bad capacitor on the Y-SUS didn't make any difference at all, unless it had something to do with the digital tuner, which I highly doubt....

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

Order the Xsus see if it fixes it, to test it use bcn and google to find how to test Ve voltage and sus output voltages from the Xsus.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

x-main, x-sus, z-sus all the same board located on far right side.

Thank you. I gotcha. I've been reading a good deal about Plasmas, trying to get a better understanding of how they work. I believe the Y-SUS is responsible for the lines on the Y-Axis (vertical lines) and the X-SUS is responsible for the lines on the X-Axis (horizontal lines). Why do they sometime refer to it as a Z-SUS though? Was the information I reading incorrect on why they're called what they're called?

Replacing the bad cap on the Y-SUS made no difference as far as we can tell. I thought that was a bit odd.

Anyway, I couldn't find a new X-SUS on ShopJimmy. I couldn't find a new one on e-bay. But I did find a used one on e-bay for 14$, free shipping. I ordered that. I'm hoping that fixes the problem.

There was another problem too. The digital tuner doesn't work, only the analog tuner works. This TV supports digital TV, so hooking one of those antennas made for digital TV should have brought in some channels. Around here, we get 7 or 8, without an antenna. I'm thinking that might be something on the logic board though and will start checking tomorrow, while I wait for the X-SUS board to come in the mail.

Thanks!

[rccrasher65]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

The zsus is the board that had the bad capacitor? I thought that was called a Y-Main or a Y-SUS or a Y-Sustain board.

I want to make sure I got the terminology right here. The three boards at the top of the TV are buffer boards. The three boards at the bottom are buffer boards. With the TV laying on the floor and the back cover removed, looking down at the TV, all the way to the left is the Y-Main / Y-SUS board and attached to that are the Upper Y Scan Drive and the Lower Y Scan Drive. To the far right, I believe that board is called the X-Main Board or the X-SUS or the X-Sustain board. In the middle of the TV I believe is a power supply board. Then there's the logic board(s). Does that sound about right?

I haven't heard of the Z-SUS board yet. Not sure which one that is.

x-main, x-sus, z-sus all the same board located on far right side.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

That aint a buffer fault, Xsus seems to be dead IMO. Ipm is probably shot.

What's an Ipm? I've searched google and can't find much on them. Came across a badcaps post about a person replacing one, but that's it. Also, where's the X-Sus board? I've uploaded a picture with labels to what I think are the Y-SUS and X-SUS boards. The red box is what I've been calling the Y-SUS, the one that had the bad cap. The blue box is what I think is called the X-SUS. Not sure where the Z-Sus board that tvtimmy mentions is. This is the first plasma I've taken apart.

Is there any way to test the X-SUS? I wish I could verify the IPM is bad before ordering a new board.

Here's a link to a video of a person removing the IPM. Still not sure what one is or what it's purpose is, but I'll keep looking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byN2UJTni3o

Are we certain there's not more wrong with the board that had the blown capacitor? The one I call the Y-SUS? No way something else bad in on that board, maybe that voltage regulator, could cause something like this?

Thanks for all the help guys. These plasmas really are different beasts altogether, aren't they?