Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

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  • vinceroger69
    Badcaps Legend
    • Mar 2012
    • 6714
    • uk

    #21
    Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

    ve should be 90v as per panel sticker so start by testing all the ones you can find and adjust to the panel sticker voltage (mark the adjusters with a marker pen just incase it makes things worse you can always put them back to where they was then)
    Have you tested all the capacitors for correct uf/esr just incase any need replacing first.
    Last edited by vinceroger69; 03-12-2017, 02:16 PM.

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    • Spork Schivago
      Badcaps Legend
      • Mar 2012
      • 4734
      • United States of America

      #22
      Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

      Okay, for the board that says X-Main Driver (the X-SUS board), I don't get any readings at all for any of the pins. They're all floating or whatever you call it. If I leave the probe on long enough, it might go to something like -160mV after a very long time, but it's hard to tell if it's really reading that or not. Without the probe hooked at all, it just bounces around. Even if I set the DMM to not auto-ranging, at such a small resolution, it jumps by itself.

      For the board that says Y-Main (the Y-SUS board), I get:
      Code:
      Vs:   194.7VDC
      Vs:   194.7VDC
      Vset:  195.2VDC
      Vscan: -174.5VDC
      Vg:   15.18VDC
      D5V:   5.19VDC
      So vScan would need adjusting a little, according to the sticker, and Vs needs adjusting.

      Because none of the connectors for the X-Main Drive board (the X-SUS board) have any readings at all, does that confirm the X-SUS is bad or does it imply there's something wrong with the PSU?
      -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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      • Spork Schivago
        Badcaps Legend
        • Mar 2012
        • 4734
        • United States of America

        #23
        Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

        Originally posted by vinceroger69
        ve should be 90v as per panel sticker so start by testing all the ones you can find and adjust to the panel sticker voltage (mark the adjusters with a marker pen just incase it makes things worse you can always put them back to where they was then)
        Have you tested all the capacitors for correct uf/esr just incase any need replacing first.
        Okay, so I was reading the sticker right, that's good. I only replaced the one bulging cap on the Y-SUS board. It will be a nightmare to pull every single cap on every single board to test the ESR / farad rating. Is there a board in particular I should be testing? Like the power supply board? Even that one has a very large number of capacitors. I almost feel like if I'm going to pull every cap on that power supply, I should just recap the entire power supply with new capacitors.....

        For adjusting that Vs one, the pot is real close to a metallic heatsink. I only have metallic screw drivers. Do I have to be really careful when adjusting that, so I don't accidently let the screw drive touch a heatsink or something? The youtube video guy said don't touch the caps when it's on, don't touch the heatsinks when it's on. I've never known heatsinks to be "live", but I sure as heck don't want to find out that they are on this plasma!
        -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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        • vinceroger69
          Badcaps Legend
          • Mar 2012
          • 6714
          • uk

          #24
          Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

          some testers can test in circuit like the peak atlas esr 70 (well says it can not 100% sure as dont have this tester) i have plastic handled screw drivers so dont have this issue myself when adjusting pre sets (maybe wrap yours in insulation tape if your worried) as not sure if you can get a shock from the pre sets but yes capacitor tops and also some heat sinks are live trust me ive found out by accident. im not sure why on the x sus board you dont get any readings hopefully a more exprienced member will advise
          Last edited by vinceroger69; 03-12-2017, 02:51 PM.

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          • Spork Schivago
            Badcaps Legend
            • Mar 2012
            • 4734
            • United States of America

            #25
            Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

            Originally posted by vinceroger69
            some testers can test in circuit like the peak atlas esr 70 (well says it can not 100% sure as dont have this tester) i have plastic handled screw drivers so dont have this issue myself when adjusting pre sets (maybe wrap yours in insulation tape if your worried) as not sure if you can get a shock from the pre sets but yes capacitor tops and also some heat sinks are live trust me ive found out by accident. im not sure why on the x sus board you dont get any readings hopefully a more exprienced member will advise
            Thanks for the tips. I've adjusted the Vs voltage to 200VDC. It took very fine adjustments, but didn't change anything, from what we can see.

            I do have an Peak Atlas ESR 70+ meter and although it can test in circuit, it cannot test in circuit always. It can only test in circuit when it's a very simple circuit. Things like capacitors in parallel instead of series makes it not reliable when testing in circuit and according to peak, one should always unhook the cap just to be certain. So it's pretty pointless testing in circuit, from my understanding, unless of course, you have a very thorough understanding of the circuit and how it works, but even then, the results are not reliable.

            I've been testing the X-SUS board by measuring the pins on the power supply side. If the X-SUS IPM is blown, that could cause a short-circuit, right? Would a short-circuit explain no reading on any of the pins? Or is there something wrong with the PSU?

            I took out the logic / main board. The one that has the blinking green LED. I removed the cover from the tuner. It has black stuff that appears to have leaked out from something. I don't think the tuner is easily repairable. Even if I desolder it, I don't think I can get to the circuit board. Is it safe to order a replacement logic board that has the same part number but is from a different television? I can't find one for this TV.

            ShopJimmy has one with this part number. The part number is 310431360376. http://www.shopjimmy.com/philips-310...main-board.htm E-Bay has a few with that number. Cheapest is around 20$ (free shipping). I'd probably order off e-bay, to save some money....I'm just afraid there's going to be firmware or something that communicates with some other board and a replacement main board won't work if it's from another tv.
            Attached Files
            -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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            • vinceroger69
              Badcaps Legend
              • Mar 2012
              • 6714
              • uk

              #26
              Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

              Thanks for the info on the peak atlas it good to hear from someone who has it themselves ive only done two repairs on plasmas and both panasonic 10 blink issues so hopefully someone with phillips experience will advise you but that tuner board certaily looks bad theres a few videos on you tube regarding testing the ipm for shorts etc not sure if you have saw them?

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              • Spork Schivago
                Badcaps Legend
                • Mar 2012
                • 4734
                • United States of America

                #27
                Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                Originally posted by vinceroger69
                Thanks for the info on the peak atlas it good to hear from someone who has it themselves ive only done two repairs on plasmas and both panasonic 10 blink issues so hopefully someone with phillips experience will advise you but that tuner board certaily looks bad theres a few videos on you tube regarding testing the ipm for shorts etc not sure if you have saw them?
                I haven't seen them, but I did see a video where a guy removed the heatsink to work on the IPM. From what he was saying, desoldering braid isn't going to do the trick because of something about a multilayered PCB. He uses a thermocouple to watch the temperature (something I can do) and then a preheater to heat the board to 100C and then a desoldering gun that has a vacuum pump built in to remove the solder. I have everything but the desoldering gun. I don't even have a manual desoldering pump.

                I ordered a replacement X-SUS. Maybe we should just wait to see what happens when it comes? For the tuner, do you think it's a wise idea to replace the entire board? I'm trying to remove that nasty stuff on it, but it's really caked on. I doubt removing it will fix it, but I dunno, maybe there's an SMD capacitor under there that exploded or something?
                -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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                • vinceroger69
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Mar 2012
                  • 6714
                  • uk

                  #28
                  Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                  this video shows testing for a ipm short?
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEETsXWUkM

                  Comment

                  • Spork Schivago
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Mar 2012
                    • 4734
                    • United States of America

                    #29
                    Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                    I think I found a bad resistor. It's on the PSU. It's one of those big ones, like a 1/4 watt or whatever you call them. I'll pull it to test. I found test points on the board, Ve, Vs, Vset, Vscan, and I get voltage readings from those! So I trace the Vs that goes from the test point towards the X-SUS connector on the power supply, right? There's a big ass resistor there. With reference to ground, I measure on the side of the resistor closest to the test point somewhere around 174V. On the other side of the resistor though, absolutely nothing! To me, this says the resistor is bad.

                    What do you guys think?
                    -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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                    • Spork Schivago
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Mar 2012
                      • 4734
                      • United States of America

                      #30
                      Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                      Originally posted by vinceroger69
                      this video shows testing for a ipm short?
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEETsXWUkM
                      Okay, so I pulled the X-SUS board again and the fuses are definitely good (I checked them again yesterday, just to make sure). I noticed though that the pins for the IPMs are not labeled. I've tried finding a service manual for this television but I'm not having much luck.

                      I found one for the Philips 50PF9830A/37 (which this TV is) but it's listed as being for chassis EJ3.0U PA. On the back of this TV, on the metal bezel that I had to remove to get to the circuit boards, I see above the model number, in a square box, SBP2.1U AA

                      I believe SBP2.1U AA is the chassis number for this television. The service manual for the EJ3.0U PA have pictures of the inside of the television and it does not look like the inside of this one at all. This one has the Y-SUS and X-SUS boards, but connected to the Y-SUS is an upper and lower buffer (I believe it's called a buffer). There's also three buffers at the top of the TV and three buffers at the bottom. Here's a copy of the service manual I found.

                      Without finding the proper service manual, it might be very hard to find the pinouts of the IPMs on the X-SUS board. Any suggestions?
                      -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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                      • Spork Schivago
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Mar 2012
                        • 4734
                        • United States of America

                        #31
                        Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                        The X-SUS board's PBA number is LJ92-01045A. Maybe I can just find a schematic for that board...
                        -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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                        • Spork Schivago
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Mar 2012
                          • 4734
                          • United States of America

                          #32
                          Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                          Guys, I know I don't know a lot about plasmas, but I really don't think it's a blown IPM on the X-SUS board. There's two IPMs on the X-SUS. I went through with a DMM set to continuity and measured the resistance between all the pins on each chip. Both chips show the same continuity for each pin sets. There's only a couple pins that on one side that measure 0.000 resistance with a pin on the other side, but on both IPMs, they measure the same. So unless both chips blew, I don't think the IPMs are bad. I think it's something with the power supply.
                          -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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                          • vinceroger69
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Mar 2012
                            • 6714
                            • uk

                            #33
                            Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                            did you say you had found a bad resistor on the psu in one of your previous posts?

                            Comment

                            • Spork Schivago
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Mar 2012
                              • 4734
                              • United States of America

                              #34
                              Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                              Originally posted by vinceroger69
                              did you say you had found a bad resistor on the psu in one of your previous posts?
                              I did say that, but I'm not 100% sure it was a correct statement. I've now pulled the psu and am getting ready to pull that resistor to check out of circuit. I noticed there's some rust on the legs and was thinking maybe that was affecting my reading. It's weird though, there's a test point for Ve right near that connector, and that test point shows voltage, but when I put the red probe in the Ve pin on the connector, I don't get anything. I made 100% certain I was touching the metal that goes around the wire. I used a screw for ground. For the Y-SUS board, that screw worked. Maybe the X-SUS needs a different reference for ground though?

                              I dunno. I'll let you know what I find out. I'm also going to pull a capacitor that's very close to the connector. I can see the traces going to the connector from the cap. I'll check that cap to make sure it's good. I found more fuses too. Red round ones, they look a bit like short electrolytic caps, but they're actually fuses. I didn't pull any, but I tested the continuity across them (in-circuit) and they all read 0.000 ohm resistance, so I'm thinking they're good.
                              -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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                              • Spork Schivago
                                Badcaps Legend
                                • Mar 2012
                                • 4734
                                • United States of America

                                #35
                                Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                                I must have been doing something wrong here, because I'm looking at the PSU and I see two very large caps. The positives are connected together, and I follow the trace, it goes to the Vs on the connector for the Y-SUS and then goes directly to the Vs on the connector for the X-SUS. If the Y-SUS has a voltage reading for the Vs signal, the X-SUS has to have one. They appear to all share a common ground (to me, it looks like there's just a very big ground plane that almost everything uses for ground).

                                Gonna start pulling some components and testing them. Maybe there really is something broken on the X-SUS that's just breaking the loop, so the electricity can't make it back. That would explain the no voltage readings on the X-SUS connector, wouldn't it?
                                -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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                                • ReeceyBurger123
                                  Never Give Up !
                                  • May 2014
                                  • 7325
                                  • Britain

                                  #36
                                  Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                                  Bit of faff this is, the Xmain seems to be the issue. You have a scope right ? If so will link thread so you can set it up to trigger sustain waveforms that should be generated by the Xmain.
                                  Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

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                                  • Spork Schivago
                                    Badcaps Legend
                                    • Mar 2012
                                    • 4734
                                    • United States of America

                                    #37
                                    Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                                    Originally posted by ReeceyBurger123
                                    Bit of faff this is, the Xmain seems to be the issue. You have a scope right ? If so will link thread so you can set it up to trigger sustain waveforms that should be generated by the Xmain.
                                    I do have a scope. You know a lot more about plasmas than I do. I was just trying to verify there wasn't more wrong while waiting for the new Xsus board to come.

                                    Thanks for the help. It's supposed to be here on Friday, but because of the storm, it might be a bit late.
                                    -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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                                    • vinceroger69
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Mar 2012
                                      • 6714
                                      • uk

                                      #38
                                      Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                                      Originally posted by ReeceyBurger123
                                      Bit of faff this is, the Xmain seems to be the issue. You have a scope right ? If so will link thread so you can set it up to trigger sustain waveforms that should be generated by the Xmain.
                                      Reece can you link that video i have got a scope too now so be handy to see the procedure etc.

                                      Comment

                                      • vinceroger69
                                        Badcaps Legend
                                        • Mar 2012
                                        • 6714
                                        • uk

                                        #39
                                        Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                                        Originally posted by Spork Schivago
                                        I do have a scope. You know a lot more about plasmas than I do. I was just trying to verify there wasn't more wrong while waiting for the new Xsus board to come.

                                        Thanks for the help. It's supposed to be here on Friday, but because of the storm, it might be a bit late.
                                        Hopefully the replacement board will fix the issue but we have been seeing a lot of threads where replacement boards are turning up faulty, so if reece can link that video it may help in your repair just incase the replacement dosnt fix the issue.

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                                        • Spork Schivago
                                          Badcaps Legend
                                          • Mar 2012
                                          • 4734
                                          • United States of America

                                          #40
                                          Re: Horizontal lines on a Philips 50pf9830a plasma

                                          Originally posted by vinceroger69
                                          Reece can you link that video i have got a scope too now so be handy to see the procedure etc.
                                          I believe the service manual I uploaded has the procedure, at least for that Samsung X-SUS. If I remember correctly, you remove one of the ribbon cables from the side and check it. One thing that might be of interest, in the service manual, they show a waveform of how it's supposed to look. There's probably a good chance that waveform might be unique to that Samsung board. So, for example, with another board (maybe a Pansonic), the procedure and waveform might be totally different.
                                          Last edited by Spork Schivago; 03-14-2017, 10:04 AM.
                                          -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

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