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    Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

    Hello All, received another project just in time for the holidays! The only difference between this one and the others is that it belongs to my father-in-law so I actually have to repair it without destroying it!

    Apparently he was watching it for some time when all of a sudden the picture went out, the sound was still working.

    When I got it back to my house I opened her up and checked out all the usual suspects, nothing burnt, no blown fuses, etc.

    Here's what I know:

    1. All voltages are correct except for VSCAN, which bounces around all over the place and never settles.

    2. When I turn the TV on, there is absolutely no image on the screen, no glow, no illumination whatsoever.

    3. The first few times I turned the tv on, after the startup chime there was a brief flash of "horizontal snow" for lack of a better description, then nothing. I proceeded to jump pins 3 & 4 on the CTRL board with the LVDS cable removed to see if I could get a test pattern, but I never got anything from the test. Powering on the tv after the test attempt now results in nothing on the screen at all.

    4. The LED on the CTRL board blinks once per second, indicating normal operation.


    My gut tells me it's a failed Y board and seeing as they're ~$40 on ebay at the moment, I wouldn't hesitate to throw a board at it and see if it does the trick. I'd even replace all of the boards if anyone on here deemed it necessary. My usual method of "butcher it until it's fixed or FUBAR" doesn't apply here!

    I always remain hopeful and I know that someone will guide me on the path of diagnostics(cough cough Tom66). My only worry is that I've seen multiple threads on here with these 50" sammys that are unresolved. There's even one guy who replaced all boards on the tv only to still have no picture!

    So I guess my first question is, where do I start? Feel free to make me double check any readings you'd feel would shed some light on the issue, I'm known to figure out the hard stuff while overlooking the simplest things!

    As always, any help would greatly appreciated!







    Last edited by WHaThEFLuX; 12-14-2016, 04:08 PM.
    "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

    -retiredcaps

    #2
    Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

    Ive done one of these over a year ago, but Uk version same boards. Was a bitch, several fets short on the Ysus as well as a controller also if I remember the buffer was toast and two fets on the upper heatsink on Xsus were short also some 680uf Samwha PT capacitors were also failed. I would start checking the devices mounted on heatsinks on the susboards for shorts buddy.

    Be very careful when as well buddy these sets use chained ERC meaning Ysus can kill the Xsus through the energy recovery track. So test them both fully be replacing or repairing one if not bang!

    Let us know what you find, reason of failure I think is the buffer goes first due to not being heatsunk which then kills Y then X all because Samsung cheaped out of heatsinks for the buffer and adding a fan otherwise these do look good when they work.
    Last edited by ReeceyBurger123; 12-14-2016, 06:13 PM.
    Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

    https://www.facebook.com/Telford-Tel...7894576335359/

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      #3
      Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

      Thanks Reecey, reading that post really put my mind at ease, LOL.

      I poked around at some FETS on the Ysus, they seemed OK, if all of those boards were truly toast would my voltages still be correct?

      The FETs check out except for one where the end pins are shorted, but looking at the datasheet it seems that's normal? http://www.bdtic.com/DataSheet/ST/STTH40P03S.pdf

      I also read somewhere that if it's only the Y buffer I can just disconnect it from the Ysus and VSCAN should read correctly, any truth to this?

      I checked the Ysus as thoroughly as I could without removing it, the only odd thing I discovered was that 2 diodes next to the 3 ceramic resistors were shorted, I find it hard to believe that they would be the only bad components but you never know?



      One last thing, when powering on the TV the top left heatsink on the Ysus in the picture gets very hot very quickly, while the other heatsinks just get mildy warm(there is only one FET on that heatsink), maybe an indication of something?
      Last edited by WHaThEFLuX; 12-14-2016, 06:40 PM.
      "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

      -retiredcaps

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

        The 16pin sop Ic in you picture is the one that I had fail on me-u5008. I suggest you remove the buffer and retest on samsungs you can run the Ysus with no buffer fine on pannys it kills the Ysus on some. As there is no picture the heatsink should not be getting hot so possibly a problem. Have you also tested Xsus ? Also the resistors should show short, diodes maybe depending on how they are connected.
        Last edited by ReeceyBurger123; 12-14-2016, 06:44 PM.
        Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

        https://www.facebook.com/Telford-Tel...7894576335359/

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

          Hmm interesting, maybe I'll remove one of the diodes to be sure.

          I was referring to the picture of the Ysus in my first post.

          I haven't checked the Xsus, saw no picture and went straight to Y board since the voltages were all correct on the X, I'll do some homework and get back to you!
          "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

          -retiredcaps

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

            As I said these do chain the Energy Recovery Circuits between Y and Xmain so if one is bad it can kill the other which is why I suggest you dont run the set and test the lot first. Also keep us updated
            Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

            https://www.facebook.com/Telford-Tel...7894576335359/

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              #7
              Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

              This set is giving me absolutely no clues to indicate what the issue could be other than the erratic VSC reading. I removed the X and Y boards and checked everything I possibly could on both of them.

              Removing the Y buffer board and testing produced nothing different.

              I must have turned this thing on and off at least 20 times by now, I have a feeling that if something failed severely enough to kill all the boards it either happened when the picture initially disappeared or isn't going to affect anything further.

              I'm really tempted to throw a known good Ysus at it and see if I can get the screen to fire up, if anyone has any objections/other things to check speak now or forever your peace.....
              "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

              -retiredcaps

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                Bump, just ordered a used Ysus, we'll see how it goes, with this whole chained energy recovery circuit thing I'm not sure if this is more like gambling or russian roulette....
                "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                -retiredcaps

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                  I would say that the controller I mentioned on the ysus could be an issue. Let us know how it goes.
                  Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

                  https://www.facebook.com/Telford-Tel...7894576335359/

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                    I'm sure there's a way to test it without switching it out for a new one but that goes beyond me, any ideas? http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineo...535677267f27f2

                    I also read about this gate drive IC having to be "frozen" in order to get picture in another thread, maybe something else to consider?
                    http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/149/FAN7371-94664.pdf

                    I'd love nothing more than to repair the original Ysus but at this point my father-in-law just wants the set back asap, it'll really be great when I get the other one and throw it in just to have it, the Xsus and the Y buffer all blow at the same time!
                    "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                    -retiredcaps

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                      Could just remove it set might run, Ive done a similar thing on a lg before just removed the shorted sus up fets set worked.
                      Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

                      https://www.facebook.com/Telford-Tel...7894576335359/

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                        #12
                        Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                        I'll give that a try, should I remove just the 16 pin IC or both, or one at a time and test?
                        "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                        -retiredcaps

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                          We have an interesting development.......

                          Removing the 16 pin IC did absolutely nothing for the display, however with it off the board I'm now getting a VSC of ~200 that immediately lowers and bounces between 195-197, could this IC be the culprit?

                          I haven't touched the other one and will await further instruction before continuing to tinker, we might be onto something here!
                          "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                          -retiredcaps

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                            Bump, any suggestions?
                            "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                            -retiredcaps

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                              Nice test it for shorts on vcc to drain ect. Sounds like the Ic is failed, also that heatsink still getting hot ?
                              Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

                              https://www.facebook.com/Telford-Tel...7894576335359/

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                                #16
                                Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                                While I know Im not the sort to go through intense schematic readings and voltages like others I know what to check lol
                                Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

                                https://www.facebook.com/Telford-Tel...7894576335359/

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                                  #17
                                  Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                                  A bouncing Vsc sounds like it's not under much load. I suspect that IC may have been one of the causes of the fault.
                                  Check from OUTL to OUTH for shorts and Vscan (~150V). Only do this once the Ymain is repaired.

                                  Note: Vscan != Vsc. Sometimes Samsung call Vscan "Vsch", but they are very inconsistent.
                                  Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                                  For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                                    Originally posted by tom66 View Post
                                    A bouncing Vsc sounds like it's not under much load. I suspect that IC may have been one of the causes of the fault.
                                    Check from OUTL to OUTH for shorts and Vscan (~150V). Only do this once the Ymain is repaired.

                                    Note: Vscan != Vsc. Sometimes Samsung call Vscan "Vsch", but they are very inconsistent.
                                    On all samsungs apart from the new D and E series Vsc will be up solid even with out a load.
                                    Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

                                    https://www.facebook.com/Telford-Tel...7894576335359/

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                                      #19
                                      Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                                      With the IC removed, the heatsink in question gets hot gradually like it's supposed to, and now without that IC the other heatsinks stay cold.

                                      Sadly, the IC had no shorts in it when I tested it.

                                      This issue has really remained elusive, I keep hoping to discover something that would indicate the fault but I'm just not seeing it other than the erratic VSCAN.

                                      Tom, thanks so much for your input, much appreciated!

                                      I assume you mean HIGH OUT and LOW OUT on the IC?

                                      The new one should be here on Monday, I'll throw it and let you gents know the result!
                                      "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                                      -retiredcaps

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Samsung PN50B650S1F sound but no picture

                                        Bad news, replacing that IC did nothing but return the set to the original state I got it in. After replacing it, the TV went back to showing black and white snow for an instant after turning it on but that's about it.

                                        I also replaced one of the 8 pin ICs I saw in another thread, and after doing so got the same snow for a second, only this time it was multi-colored.

                                        With the 16 pin IC removed, VSCAN was bouncing between 195 and 197 when it's supposed to be at ~200 according to the label. With the IC installed the reading was much more all over the place. Something I never mentioned, there's a pulsed buzzing sound coming from the Ysus, not sure if it's supposed to sound like that or be more steady, or not be there at all? Turn the volume all the way up if you can't hear it! See the video below:

                                        http://vid1138.photobucket.com/album...pslggixsdd.mp4

                                        I've also included a video of the "snow", you might have to watch it a few times before you see it.

                                        http://vid1138.photobucket.com/album...ps1spc9bfy.mp4

                                        I think at this point I'll just throw the good used Ysus in there when it arrives and hope it does the trick, I've given this one a good run but with the holidays being so close I just don't have any more time to spend on it!

                                        And before anyone flames me out of the forums yes I'm aware of the dangers of carpet, no worries, it's special magical anti-static carpet!
                                        "You can only learn so much doing simple recapping and fixes. Ideally you want a really hard one to fix where you end up with a lot of dead ends and frustration. Then, and only then, do you learn how things really work."

                                        -retiredcaps

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