Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Definitely a possibility, I would expect there to be a heatpad there. If you have an old motherboard lying around, consider ripping off the northbridge heatsink and retrofitting it on to that chip with a bit of thermal adhesive (don't use glue.)

Samsung are really cutting back on their manufacturing. I repaired a 42" Samsung Plasma recently and around the component connector Cr they had forgot to drill the right hole, making it very difficult to insert the Cr connector. I had to adjust the hole to make it work properly. A bit disappointing for a £350 42", would be very disappointed if they forgot that heatpad on a £1,200+ TV.

I really don't see why, there is such little components inside these TVs now compared to the old sets, all the PCBs now just screw into the back of the screen panel whereas before they all had their own separate chassis.. and its not like 3D technology incorporates any more expensive manufacturing techniques.. Anyway, TV worked for about 2 minutes, started restarting itself, now the screen has died again.. I will put it down to dry joints on one of the processors! Maybe it requires some more oven time

[tom66]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

I really don't see why, there is such little components inside these TVs now compared to the old sets, all the PCBs now just screw into the back of the screen panel whereas before they all had their own separate chassis.. and its not like 3D technology incorporates any more expensive manufacturing techniques.. Anyway, TV worked for about 2 minutes, started restarting itself, now the screen has died again.. I will put it down to dry joints on one of the processors! Maybe it requires some more oven time

The SMD stuff comes mainly down to reducing manufacture cost but also dealing with high speed signals. SMD is almost entirely machine operated, whereas most older tube TV PCBs were assembled by hand... imagine the savings in labour cost. But also, high speed signals don't like the long leads on components, so when you're dealing with things like HDMI and LVDS you've got to use tiny components.

You might consider reballing it and putting a heatsink on it. Some people offer this service on eBay for a small fee.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Congrats. I believe this is the first 3D TV post on this forum. The TV must have been just outside the warranty period?

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

The SMD stuff comes mainly down to reducing manufacture cost but also dealing with high speed signals. SMD is almost entirely machine operated, whereas most older tube TV PCBs were assembled by hand... imagine the savings in labour cost. But also, high speed signals don't like the long leads on components, so when you're dealing with things like HDMI and LVDS you've got to use tiny components.

You might consider reballing it and putting a heatsink on it. Some people offer this service on eBay for a small fee.

I think I will put it in the oven for a bit longer and then just play the waiting game, if it fails again I will just get a board from america. I think re-balling will probably be about the same price but just more risky as I am not sure which component is at fault. I didn't really think the processors get hot enough to cause problems, but apparently so...

It is really playing up now, it keeps restarting itself, and sometimes the screen will not come on, but I guess it is all the same problem.

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Congrats. I believe this is the first 3D TV post on this forum. The TV must have been just outside the warranty period?

Well, I was given this TV from a friend as a project, I am only a student and they know I love to play around with electronics, hence why I also have a 50" one that I managed to use for testing this one, however that one appears to be beyond repair

[tom66]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Well, I was given this TV from a friend as a project, I am only a student and they know I love to play around with electronics, hence why I also have a 50" one that I managed to use for testing this one, however that one appears to be beyond repair

So..... how did you meet your friend? Can he be my friend too?

Have you started a thread about the 50"?

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Hi Tom, yes, it was a while a go now, and it was you who helped me with it too! It has a big white line on the screen, and I think we concluded it would need a new screen

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

I will put the problem down to really sh*t design quality. I have just been looking behind the board as I took it out again to bake it, there is an unused screw mount directly behind he CPU, and a cable folded at 90 degrees directly behind the GPU.. they both couldn't have been in worse places, but thats why there is no heat pad behind either, it is pretty much impossible to fit one in! It seems like these fast processors definitely require it though.. I think there is going to be a lot of unsatisfied owners of this TV very soon!

[tom66]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

I will put the problem down to really sh*t design quality. I have just been looking behind the board as I took it out again to bake it, there is an unused screw mount directly behind he CPU, and a cable folded at 90 degrees directly behind the GPU.. they both couldn't have been in worse places, but thats why there is no heat pad behind either, it is pretty much impossible to fit one in! It seems like these fast processors definitely require it though.. I think there is going to be a lot of unsatisfied owners of this TV very soon!

How much space is there for a heatsink? I think I have one here you could use, I could post it to you. You'd need some thermal adhesive though.

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Not a lot, the heatsink you see in the pictures is as big as it can be for the chassis, there is really no room in these ultra thin models. Anyway I put the motherboard in the oven at 250 degrees for 10 minutes and put it back in the TV, it has been running constantly for over 2 hours now without a problem. I just felt the processors, the one with no heatsink doesn't actually get very hot, but the heatsink is rather hot to the touch.. I suspect this is where dry joints are occurring.. it could definitely use a heatpad behind it. I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung positioned this random mount so its not possible to use a heatpad, knowing it will cause a problem later down the line.. just like the 'accidentally' supplied 3 years of models with 10V capacitors on a 12V rail!

[tom66]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Not a lot, the heatsink you see in the pictures is as big as it can be for the chassis, there is really no room in these ultra thin models. Anyway I put the motherboard in the oven at 250 degrees for 10 minutes and put it back in the TV, it has been running constantly for over 2 hours now without a problem. I just felt the processors, the one with no heatsink doesn't actually get very hot, but the heatsink is rather hot to the touch.. I suspect this is where dry joints are occurring.. it could definitely use a heatpad behind it. I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung positioned this random mount so its not possible to use a heatpad, knowing it will cause a problem later down the line.. just like the 'accidentally' supplied 3 years of models with 10V capacitors on a 12V rail!

The 10V caps issue has been discussed before, those caps actually filter the 5.3V rail. However, they still used crap capacitors (Samwha XC series) which fail after about a year. Usually when a chip has a metal pad like that, there is supposed to be a heatsink. I wouldn't be surprised if the board breaks again, but good luck!

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Oh, I always thought wrong then! I do recall a long time ago reading about a brand of capacitor that were found diluting their electrolyte with other chemicals, causing them to swell and leak later down the line.. is that the brand??

[Scenic]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

just for the records..
in post #48 you list the EEPROMs you found.

from my experience (which isn't perfect but .. yeah), the one for the user data that causes problems is pretty much always an Atmel 256KBit, ie: number 7 in that post.

ATMLH110
2EC L

Atmel [package/grade] [single digit year] [week week]
[cryptic model number]

Without the datasheet (part marking infos), you would probably never be able figure out that it's an Atmel AT24C256C 256KBit 2-Wire Serial EEPROM.. but finding the datasheet kinda requires that you know the model number.. which you can't figure out because you don't have the datasheet.. endless loop


(page 14)

edit: credits go to the russians. found a thread where someone listed which of the cryptic model numbers on the chip belongs to which EEPROM
http://translate.google.com/translat...26prmd%3Dimvns
(scroll down a bit more than half way)

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

wow.. I must say I am highly impressed with the services and community this forum has to offer Thank you very much everyone for your help! No doubt I will be back shortly with some more problems as I do love to mess about with electronics :P I will keep my eye out for any problems I may be able to offer advice to.. but it will probably be along the lines of 'put it in the over for 10 minutes and see what happens' haha. It really is the solution to everything, I have fixed my laptop and PS3 previously by doing this, and now my TV!

[tom66]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Oh, I always thought wrong then! I do recall a long time ago reading about a brand of capacitor that were found diluting their electrolyte with other chemicals, causing them to swell and leak later down the line.. is that the brand??

Probably Ltec(?). In Samwha's case, the capacitors are just shoddily made. Maybe 90% are fine, but 10% that aren't kill the TVs. That's why I always recap with high quality caps that won't fail in a year, and will probably last 10+ years.

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Do you think the new models have more reliable components then, or do we expect to see then all failing a few years?

[tom66]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Do you think the new models have more reliable components then, or do we expect to see then all failing a few years?

Samsung continue to use crap capacitors, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more failing in the future. I thought they would have learned their lesson from the caps incident a while back.

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Hmm, it seems every TV has its own problems eventually though. Anyway mine is still going strong, must have been on about 6-7 hours now!

[tom66]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Hmm, it seems every TV has its own problems eventually though. Anyway mine is still going strong, must have been on about 6-7 hours now!

Great to hear. Now I want to get a 59" Samsung plasma that just needs a heatsink and reflow .

[graham01]

Re: Samsung 59" Plasma 3D Blank Screen

Its not the solution unfortunately It was great all day, however I left it on overnight and woke up to a blank screen. I will just get a new board for it.. so there is no harm done by putting it in the oven for half an hour at 250C unlss it blows my oven up..