PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

[PlainBill]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Ok, here are some pictures of the TV and PSU. I replaced the 4 large caps you can see in the pic of the PSU, see part numbers listed above from DigiKey.

How would I test the output to the master and slave inverter? It acts like it is "trying" to come on but doesn't have the oomph.

Disconnect the power supply line to the inverters. If the power supply comes up and there is sound, try shining a flashlight on the screen. If that works (I haven't had much success), then you can be confident the inverters are the problem.

PlainBill

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Hey guys, I'm having the same type of issue with this same television. The set was actually given to me a week ago by my parents who were on their second break down with it. First time it happened 2 days after purchase. This time it's been maybe 2 years I would say.

Standby light comes on but when I got it from them if I powered it on, it would stay on MAYBE 5 seconds(not even long enough for the on screen info to come up). Ran across this forum doing a search and after following some troubleshooting issues came to the conclusion to replace the 4 mediumish sized caps inside. I found the correct caps as listed at a local shop and confirmed in my own television and replaced them.

After replacement, I powered on and was overjoyed to see it come on just fine, display picture perfectly and all features functioning. So I put it in place and go out to do something in the garage. About maybe 5 minutes pass and out comes my GF to tell me it had shut off. Sure enough I went inside and it had powered off. Now when I power it back on, The picture comes up but it only stays powered on for maybe a minute and then powers off again.

There is also a quite loud whistle upon powering off that sounds like something(capacitor?) discharging. This was present even before changing to the new caps. It is definately louder and lasts longer than a typical whistle from a television power down.

All that being said, Any idea whats going on with this thing at this point? The caps were swollen and one had started to leak a small bit of rusty colored substance from the top(the ones I replaced that is, not the new ones) so I assume those were certainly bad especially coupled with the fact that it now powers on even if just for a very short time.

I seem to remember looking at power supplies on some site the day I started searching for around $80 or so but all I seem to be finding now are priced at around $275 which seems quite unreasonable to me. Any advice is appreciated.

[PlainBill]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Hey guys, I'm having the same type of issue with this same television. The set was actually given to me a week ago by my parents who were on their second break down with it. First time it happened 2 days after purchase. This time it's been maybe 2 years I would say.

Standby light comes on but when I got it from them if I powered it on, it would stay on MAYBE 5 seconds(not even long enough for the on screen info to come up). Ran across this forum doing a search and after following some troubleshooting issues came to the conclusion to replace the 4 mediumish sized caps inside. I found the correct caps as listed at a local shop and confirmed in my own television and replaced them.

After replacement, I powered on and was overjoyed to see it come on just fine, display picture perfectly and all features functioning. So I put it in place and go out to do something in the garage. About maybe 5 minutes pass and out comes my GF to tell me it had shut off. Sure enough I went inside and it had powered off. Now when I power it back on, The picture comes up but it only stays powered on for maybe a minute and then powers off again.

There is also a quite loud whistle upon powering off that sounds like something(capacitor?) discharging. This was present even before changing to the new caps. It is definately louder and lasts longer than a typical whistle from a television power down.

All that being said, Any idea whats going on with this thing at this point? The caps were swollen and one had started to leak a small bit of rusty colored substance from the top(the ones I replaced that is, not the new ones) so I assume those were certainly bad especially coupled with the fact that it now powers on even if just for a very short time.

I seem to remember looking at power supplies on some site the day I started searching for around $80 or so but all I seem to be finding now are priced at around $275 which seems quite unreasonable to me. Any advice is appreciated.

When buying caps, 'Local Shop' is a red flag. What brand and series did you buy?

PlainBill

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

I am actually at my place in the mtns at the moment and the television is at my other place but I will be back there Monday and can get the specifics.

I know what you are saying and I'm aware it could be "bad caps" straight out the gate but with my very limited knowledge on particulars of component parts, I'm fairly certain what I got was sufficient. Not positive, but pretty sure. They are the same specs as the oem(voltage,uf, temp) not sure about series or brand of all but I seem to remember a brand name of sazon for one type? and something that started with an L for the single one thats a different voltage/uf. The specs of course were:

3 X 1500uf 35v GF 105c

1 X 2200uf 16v GF 105c (not sure if the "GF" designation is on the replacements or not in case that matters. Could be I just honestly don't remember)

I know that's very vague. I apologize I'm not at the unit. I cant make out the sloppy numbers on the receipt either but one looks to be GLT16V222VHT2200M16(that's the single 16v one obviously) This supply place was recommended by a local repair shop not that that means a great deal.

You obviously know a great deal more about this than I do and it sounds like you suspect the caps to still be the problem? There were roughly 6 very small caps that I didn't replace with no apparent damage for what it's worth and of course the big daddy. Does the problem still sound cap related and is there anything alse on the board that could actually cause the caps to go out if that part were bad as well?

I do appreciate any feedback or ideas you may be able to give me and again sorry for such a lack of info but I can certainly have more particulars for you when I get back in reach of the set.

[Dgtech]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Posting pictures of the board in question would definitely help at this point. There may be parts in the circuit of the bad capacitors that were affected and need to be changed. There is a multitude of answers to what may cause this problem however the fact that you found some bad caps is a clue - but not always the only solution.

The caps that you put in most likely are general purpose caps - not low ESR rated caps. This site (badcaps.net) is a good source to buy the caps you need.

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

I will definately get some pics and info specifics on everything first thing Monday. Thanks for the replies thus far.

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Okay guys, finally able to get back and get some pics. I tried to be sure all of the text on the parts was readable. I hope you can see what you need. The CapXon are the ones I replaced. The Sanching and Lelon obviously being the new ones.

Just so you don't think I threw the Sanching in their sloppily, they were slightly larger in diameter so I had to leave them sticking up a bit for clearance. As you can see, there are also 7 smaller caps that I did not change and the 1 large one.

I did try and power it up when returning and get the same thing. It powers on very shortly(seems to actually stay on a few seconds longer the longer it sits off but at max only 5 to 10 seconds) and then powers off. It does display a picture fine if it stays on long enough to get to that point. When it does power back off, I hear a chirping/whistle sound and then a slow, high pitched whistle for maybe 4 to 5 seconds.

Thanks again for any ideas or suggestions you all might have.

"Bad" Caps:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...8/DSC04541.jpg

Lelon Cap:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...8/DSC04530.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...8/DSC04536.jpg

Sanching Caps:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...8/DSC04533.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...8/DSC04532.jpg

Complete Board:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...8/DSC04535.jpg

[PlainBill]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Attach the pictures here, using 'Manage Attachments' (below the text entry area).

PlainBill

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Sorry 'bout that. I actually tried that way first because I saw it was preferred but my image sizes were too big and of course trying to live at 2 places, I only have an old laptop here without any resizing tools, etc. Forgot I could get em back off of photobucket after they resized 'em.

Thanks again.

Another quick question also, What are the chances of the large cap going bad and not showing signs? I was trying to narrow down where the noise is coming from and it seems to be the big one. Also I hear a slight buzz when sitting in standby mode...sounds like it's coming from the big cap? Is that normal or am I just hearing it from something else?

[PlainBill]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Sorry 'bout that. I actually tried that way first because I saw it was preferred but my image sizes were too big and of course trying to live at 2 places, I only have an old laptop here without any resizing tools, etc. Forgot I could get em back off of photobucket after they resized 'em.

Thanks again.

Another quick question also, What are the chances of the large cap going bad and not showing signs? I was trying to narrow down where the noise is coming from and it seems to be the big one. Also I hear a slight buzz when sitting in standby mode...sounds like it's coming from the big cap? Is that normal or am I just hearing it from something else?

1. I'm the wrong person to ask about noise. Everyone else sets the volume on the TV to 10 or 11, I have to run it up to 18.

2. A tube - such as the core of a roll of paper towels - can be used as a rudimentary stethoscope to locate the source of noise.

3. About 1% of the problems are caused by the large cap (VERY poor sampling method).

4. I note some original caps are Lelons. One of the great achievements of Lelon is their caps will fail without visible signs.

5. What the heck is a Bronco's fan doing in Virginia? Seems to me you would be rooting for the Ravens.

PlainBill

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

LOL, I get that from a lot of people about being a Broncos fan in VA. I actually grew up in Savannah, GA. and moved up to VA when I was 18. Been an Elway/Broncos fan since around 13 years old I guess. Not sure what started it tbh, Just one of those things They sure haven't been the same without John

I did do some more looking around with it last night and figured I may as well pop the cover off to the main board just to have a look and see if there was anything obvious and sure enough, I'm assuming what I found are more bad caps. You can see in the full board pic that the two 1000uf 25v's(close-ups) in the top right are in the worst condition(stuff leaking from top?). I also see the same specs one in the lower right as well as one or two of the short black ones(you can actually see one to the left of one of the leaky ones) bulging a bit at the top. Am I understanding that any slight bulge at the top of a cap is indicating failure?

I did use your paper towel roll suggestion(worked great) to try and isolate the noises I was hearing and it turns out they're coming from the smaller transformer which I assume maybe is normal?

So now here I am wondering how to proceed? You mention the Lelon caps being not so great so at this point would you change the remaining caps? One of the new ones I put in were a Lelon brand also. And how about those Sanching? Are they adequate?

If, I'm better off getting caps from an online source, I will definately do so.

Would those bad looking caps I discovered on the main board cause a problem like this? Would trying to get a replacement power board even solve this issue and would it be doing anything more than replacing these caps individually? Just kinda wondering what my best route would be at this point. Obviously I don't wanna spend a ton of money on what wasn't the greatest television to begin with but wouldn't mind getting it up and running for sure.

Thanks again for all your help.

[PlainBill]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

LOL, I get that from a lot of people about being a Broncos fan in VA. I actually grew up in Savannah, GA. and moved up to VA when I was 18. Been an Elway/Broncos fan since around 13 years old I guess. Not sure what started it tbh, Just one of those things They sure haven't been the same without John

I did do some more looking around with it last night and figured I may as well pop the cover off to the main board just to have a look and see if there was anything obvious and sure enough, I'm assuming what I found are more bad caps. You can see in the full board pic that the two 1000uf 25v's(close-ups) in the top right are in the worst condition(stuff leaking from top?). I also see the same specs one in the lower right as well as one or two of the short black ones(you can actually see one to the left of one of the leaky ones) bulging a bit at the top. Am I understanding that any slight bulge at the top of a cap is indicating failure?

I did use your paper towel roll suggestion(worked great) to try and isolate the noises I was hearing and it turns out they're coming from the smaller transformer which I assume maybe is normal?

So now here I am wondering how to proceed? You mention the Lelon caps being not so great so at this point would you change the remaining caps? One of the new ones I put in were a Lelon brand also. And how about those Sanching? Are they adequate?

If, I'm better off getting caps from an online source, I will definately do so.

Would those bad looking caps I discovered on the main board cause a problem like this? Would trying to get a replacement power board even solve this issue and would it be doing anything more than replacing these caps individually? Just kinda wondering what my best route would be at this point. Obviously I don't wanna spend a ton of money on what wasn't the greatest television to begin with but wouldn't mind getting it up and running for sure.

Thanks again for all your help.

Yes, any cap with a bulging top is failing and should be replaced. Those with a stain on the top have already failed. SOP is to replace ALL caps of that brand / series. Capxon is particularly notable as a poor quality cap - often referred to as Crapxon by the less sophisticated members here (I have a lower opinion of them).

I prefer Panasonic FM, FR, or FC series caps, other equally reliable caps are available from other manufacturers. I count 15 CapXon and two unknown brand caps on the main board. Depending on size, the replacements will run $.50 - $1.00 each. Shipping will add about $3.00 if you specify USPS First Class Mail shipping.

Someone has a tested board on eBay for $62, including shipping. Since we don't know if that board has been recapped (I'd bet it hasn't), I'd definitely recap this board. It already contains the calibration data for the panel, etc.

PlainBill

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

OK, So I'm looking at not much cost to recap the entire thing then it seems. Would you go ahead and redo the ones on the power board as well including the ones I already did? I suppose if I order good caps for the main then I may as well get them for the power board also.

In your opinion, do you think this will resolve the issue with this unit?

My very first thought was to just order a power supply until I came across this board and started reading here but I'm assuming that wouldn't have solved anything at this point given the bad caps on the main?

Looks like my next step is to break out the magnifying glass and get the specs off of all these little suckers.

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Some new info here. Curiosity over what is actually wrong here was killing me so since I had to run out for a few things, I decided to run by Radio Shack to see if by any chance they at least had something I may could use as a tester to replace the obvious bad caps on the main board.

They actually did have some cheap Lelon brand caps that were only 85celsius but were the specs I needed to replace the bad ones so I grabbed em to test with. After replacing the three bad 1000uf ones and the 470uf one that was bulging, I'm getting exactly the same results. Set powers on for about 10 seconds and then goes back to standby mode.

Am I chasing the wrong thing with the capacitors or could it still be a bad one that isn't visible? Is there something else that would cause this issue? I still think the loud whistle/discharge sound coming from the power supply on shut down is not normal sounding but no idea what this could mean.

[rayrod81]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Radio shack does not carry low esr caps. You will need to replace with good quality low esr caps to know if it will make a difference. Panasonic FC, FM, and/or FR would be the way to go. Stay away from radio shack when replacing caps.

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

I would never consider using these caps as a permanent replacement but are you saying even though it's doing the exact same thing with these caps that isn't showing that the caps aren't the issue?

That's the only reason I got them was to test to see if it was actually the caps before going through all of the ordering and changing all these caps for really no reason. I would assume that even though they aren't the exact type that they would at least fix the issue if it were those particular caps alone? No?

[rayrod81]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

yeah these are general purpose caps and the voltage tolerances on the main board of a TV are very tight and if the esr isn't close enough to spec then it will not function properly.

[PlainBill]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Consider this: Transients on the power supply lines is the enemy of digital electronics. A low ESR cap is designed to absorb the transients from a switching power supply. (The 3.3 volt and 2.5 volt power supplies on this board use a switching power supply.) Since a general purpose cap has a much higher ESR, it does a poorer job of absorbing the transients.

PlainBill

[Elway358]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

Yeah, I don't know a lot at all about the function of them but did do a little reading after all of this low esr talk, etc. I do understand what you're saying and the basic principal of them but I'm just not feeling very confident anymore that changing out all these caps will resolve this.

I know some brands installed may have bad track records, etc but I'm honestly not interested in changing them out because of that reason alone. Cap swapping isn't my idea of a fun thing for sure. Starting to fall back on my original thought that the problem lies somewhere on that power supply and it may be best just to get a replacement there and see how it goes. I feel like I'm just spinning my wheels with the whole cap thing at this point.

I do appreciate the info none the less.

[alexanna]

Re: PHILIPS 42PFL5432D/37 Power Supply troubles

^ Look over your work closely; make sure the capacitor leads are soldered solid to the solder pads. A gentle rock or wiggle of the capacitor will confirm.