Samsung M87/86 series

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Ludd
    Member
    • Feb 2011
    • 13

    #1

    Samsung M87/86 series

    Hello,

    I have an almost 3 year old Samsung TV that has just started having troubles turning itself on. Unfortunately it's an imported model, so it's not covered by the 3 year Samsung warranty.

    Since I haven't done this before, I'm wondering about caps. I've been browsing this forum for a few days and I've seen Panasonic's capacitors being recommended.



    The TV have two capacitors that look inflated, and they're rated 2200μF 10V 105C. Would any of these be good replacements?

    http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eca1...0uf/dp/1848535
    http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...0uf/dp/1800626

    From what I see these two have vast differences in life time expectancy, but also AC ripple current. Is this something I need to worry about?



    I'd very much appreciate any help!


    P.S. Below are two pictures of my power board.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Ludd; 02-07-2011, 02:32 PM.
  • Scenic
    o.O
    • Sep 2007
    • 2642
    • Germany

    #2
    Re: Samsung M87/86 series

    here we go again... Samwha XC series
    samsung just doesn't wanna learn

    i'd replace all those light-blue Samwha caps (including the tiny ones) with equally rated Pannys. FR/FC/FM series (maybe even FL?)

    your second link points to Panasonic FR, which is OK for this purpose, but the first link is Panasonic NHG, which is a general purpose 105°C cap... not low-ESR -> not suitable for switchmode powersupplies like this one

    Comment

    • Ludd
      Member
      • Feb 2011
      • 13

      #3
      Re: Samsung M87/86 series

      Thank you for replying Scenic.

      I'll read up a bit on ESR and check the values for the rest of the caps. I think I'd like to start off by just replacing the caps that have gone bad though, since this is the first time I'm doing this, but I may as well order the rest of them in case I need them.

      I'll return with those values.

      Comment

      • Scenic
        o.O
        • Sep 2007
        • 2642
        • Germany

        #4
        Re: Samsung M87/86 series

        the problem with those Samwha's is that there no datasheet on the web for the XC series. so looking up their ESR to find matching new caps isn't really possible.

        but you should be fine with panny FR/FC/FM and FL series caps as replacements for the bigger ones.

        Replacing only the obvious bulging caps is a bad idea, because the others are most likely not far behind. Also.. you're in there anyways.. much better to replace all of them now than having to open this TV up again in a couple months or so because the other Samwha's failed

        Comment

        • retiredcaps
          Badcaps Legend
          • Apr 2010
          • 9271

          #5
          Re: Samsung M87/86 series

          Originally posted by Scenic
          Replacing only the obvious bulging caps is a bad idea, because the others are most likely not far behind.
          1) Agreed. If you look at the area, there is a massive heatsink that holds 3 transistors. There is a lot of heat in that area. Capacitors die from age, heat, and shoddy build quality. Capacitors DO NOT have to be visibly bloated in order to bad. They can be out of tolerance uF (a 1000uF measures 20uF) and/or have high ESR (ohm). A multimeter will be insufficient to test for ESR. For that you need an ESR tester which costs between $50 and $300.

          2) Practice your soldering on old boards. If you have a friend that is good at soldering, get him/her to do it.

          3) The best soldering video is made by CuriousInventor at

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4

          4) This site has an excellent written tutorial on replacing caps with excellent photos in the FAQ section.

          https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=485
          --- begin sig file ---

          If you are new to this forum, we can help a lot more if you please post clear focused pictures (max resolution 2000x2000 and 2MB) of your boards using the manage attachments button so they are hosted here. Information and picture clarity compositions should look like this post.

          We respectfully ask that you make some time and effort to read some of the guides available for basic troubleshooting. After you have read through them, then ask clarification questions or report your findings.

          Please do not post inline and offsite as they slow down the loading of pages.

          --- end sig file ---

          Comment

          • Ludd
            Member
            • Feb 2011
            • 13

            #6
            Re: Samsung M87/86 series

            Thanks for the pointers, Scenic and retiredcaps!

            So would I need an ESR tester to know what caps to replace the old ones with?


            The remaining of the larger caps have these values:

            1000 uF 25V 105C
            1000 uF 10V 105C

            Comment

            • retiredcaps
              Badcaps Legend
              • Apr 2010
              • 9271

              #7
              Re: Samsung M87/86 series

              Originally posted by Ludd
              So would I need an ESR tester to know what caps to replace the old ones with?
              Just replace them all as Scenic suggested with Panasonic FR/FM/FC series.

              The cost of an ESR meter is justified if you will be repairing more TVs or lcd monitors. Otherwise, it is cheaper just to replace all the caps.
              --- begin sig file ---

              If you are new to this forum, we can help a lot more if you please post clear focused pictures (max resolution 2000x2000 and 2MB) of your boards using the manage attachments button so they are hosted here. Information and picture clarity compositions should look like this post.

              We respectfully ask that you make some time and effort to read some of the guides available for basic troubleshooting. After you have read through them, then ask clarification questions or report your findings.

              Please do not post inline and offsite as they slow down the loading of pages.

              --- end sig file ---

              Comment

              • Ludd
                Member
                • Feb 2011
                • 13

                #8
                Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                Right, I've selected these for both the 25V and 10V caps -- they seem to be low ESR and in the FR series:

                http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...0uf/dp/1800654


                There are six smaller caps as well. Three of them are by the bigger ones by the heatsink, another three are spread across the board. They are all 47uF 50V.

                Replacements:

                http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...7uf/dp/1848463


                Does that look all right?

                Comment

                • Scenic
                  o.O
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 2642
                  • Germany

                  #9
                  Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                  those are fine if 25mm high caps fit in there.
                  better check that first, or you'll end up not being able to put the cover back on.
                  been there, done that

                  Comment

                  • Ludd
                    Member
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 13

                    #10
                    Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                    There's a few centimeters of room there, so they'll fit.

                    I have one more question that irks my mind: Would it be better to go up a bit in voltage for all capacitors than to stay at the exact value of the original caps?

                    Comment

                    • retiredcaps
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 9271

                      #11
                      Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                      Originally posted by Ludd
                      I have one more question that irks my mind: Would it be better to go up a bit in voltage for all capacitors than to stay at the exact value of the original caps?
                      Going up in voltage is fine, but remember the higher voltages caps could be bigger in diameter or height.

                      For spares/extras, I will typically order the larger voltage cap if the diameter and height are the same size. For example, if a 1000uF 10V and 1000uF 16V cap are the exact same size, I will buy the 16V cap because I know it can be used in on a 5V rail and 12V rail whereas the 10V cap can only be used on a 5V rail.

                      PCBONEZ talks about all this is great detail at

                      https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...30&postcount=7
                      Last edited by retiredcaps; 02-08-2011, 10:32 AM.
                      --- begin sig file ---

                      If you are new to this forum, we can help a lot more if you please post clear focused pictures (max resolution 2000x2000 and 2MB) of your boards using the manage attachments button so they are hosted here. Information and picture clarity compositions should look like this post.

                      We respectfully ask that you make some time and effort to read some of the guides available for basic troubleshooting. After you have read through them, then ask clarification questions or report your findings.

                      Please do not post inline and offsite as they slow down the loading of pages.

                      --- end sig file ---

                      Comment

                      • PlainBill
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 7034
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                        Originally posted by Ludd
                        There's a few centimeters of room there, so they'll fit.

                        I have one more question that irks my mind: Would it be better to go up a bit in voltage for all capacitors than to stay at the exact value of the original caps?
                        For this application, it would be OK, but not better. As retiredcaps points out, higher voltage, same size caps provide a more versatile spares stock.

                        Remember, the original caps didn't fail due to excess voltage, they failed due to poor quality.

                        PlainBill
                        For a number of reasons, both health and personal, I will no longer be active on this board. Any PMs asking for assistance will be ignored.

                        Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

                        Comment

                        • Ludd
                          Member
                          • Feb 2011
                          • 13

                          #13
                          Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                          Thanks again guys, I'll report back once I've received and soldered the new caps.

                          Comment

                          • Ludd
                            Member
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 13

                            #14
                            Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                            Well I'm back. Had some trouble ordering the capacitors, turns out that Farnell won't sell to anyone but companies.

                            It also turns out that ordering capacitors where I live is rather expensive. So I opted for replacing just the capacitors that look bad, and go from there.


                            I ordered Rubycon capacitors in the ZL and ZLH series. Both for my TV and my broken Samsung PC monitor. Any thoughts on these? I had trouble finding info on some of them:

                            TV:
                            Rubycon 16ZLH2200MG412.5X20 2200uF 16V

                            Monitor:
                            Rubycon 25ZL680M10X20 680uF 25V
                            Rubycon 50ZL330M10X23 330uF 50V
                            Last edited by Ludd; 03-02-2011, 03:55 PM.

                            Comment

                            • retiredcaps
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Apr 2010
                              • 9271

                              #15
                              Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                              Originally posted by Ludd
                              I ordered Rubycon capacitors in the ZL and ZLH series.
                              Both ZL and ZLH are on the good list at

                              https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2280

                              They are not as low ESR as the MBZ or MCZ though.

                              PCBONEZ talks about choosing the right caps at

                              https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...47&postcount=3

                              and explains more at

                              https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...30&postcount=7
                              --- begin sig file ---

                              If you are new to this forum, we can help a lot more if you please post clear focused pictures (max resolution 2000x2000 and 2MB) of your boards using the manage attachments button so they are hosted here. Information and picture clarity compositions should look like this post.

                              We respectfully ask that you make some time and effort to read some of the guides available for basic troubleshooting. After you have read through them, then ask clarification questions or report your findings.

                              Please do not post inline and offsite as they slow down the loading of pages.

                              --- end sig file ---

                              Comment

                              • Ludd
                                Member
                                • Feb 2011
                                • 13

                                #16
                                Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                                retiredcaps,

                                Yeah, that's pretty much why I chose them. Would've gone for lower rated caps if I could, but I had trouble finding any.

                                I'll have a look through your links, thanks.

                                Comment

                                • Ludd
                                  Member
                                  • Feb 2011
                                  • 13

                                  #17
                                  Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                                  Hey again,

                                  Thanks for all the advice and help guys. I fixed the TV.

                                  The soldering iron I had borrowed wasn't the most fun to use: it was rather hot to hold and had awkward heat distribution, but it worked.


                                  One last thing that's on my mind is whether the solder wire I used have any flux in it and I need to use off-flux. I can't seem to find any info on it, it's a "velleman 60/40 Rosin Core".

                                  [Edit] So apparently rosin is a type of flux. Wikipedia says cleaning is optional but preferred. Any thoughts?
                                  Last edited by Ludd; 03-11-2011, 05:29 PM.

                                  Comment

                                  • Ludd
                                    Member
                                    • Feb 2011
                                    • 13

                                    #18
                                    Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                                    Okay, a few more concerns:

                                    1. I added a bit extra solder to two joints after soldering them. Since solder only reacts once, may these become "cold" joints and should I redo them completely? I don't think I melted the solder from the first round completely when I added more.

                                    2. I used desoldering braid removing the original factory soldering. Those have flux as well apparently. Again, do I need flux-off and how quickly do I need it, or is it as Wikipedia says optional?

                                    Comment

                                    • Scenic
                                      o.O
                                      • Sep 2007
                                      • 2642
                                      • Germany

                                      #19
                                      Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                                      i usually don't clean it.. never had a problem so far.
                                      Isopropyl Alcohol also works fine for removing flux residue. no need for fancy flux removing gimmicks..

                                      Comment

                                      • Ludd
                                        Member
                                        • Feb 2011
                                        • 13

                                        #20
                                        Re: Samsung M87/86 series

                                        Alright, thanks a lot Scenic! Any thoughts on the joints I added solder to?

                                        Comment

                                        Related Topics

                                        Collapse

                                        • Document Archive
                                          Samsung Galaxy Book 2 Notebook Specification for Upgrade or Repair
                                          by Document Archive
                                          This specification for the Samsung Galaxy Book 2 Notebook can be useful for upgrading or repairing a laptop that is not working. As a community we are working through our specifications to add valuable data like the Galaxy Book 2 boardview and Galaxy Book 2 schematic. Our users have donated over 1 million documents which are being added to the site. This page will be updated soon with additional information. Alternatively you can request additional help from our users directly on the relevant badcaps forum. Please note that we offer no warranties that any specification, datasheet, or download...
                                          09-07-2024, 05:50 AM
                                        • Biruslapio
                                          Samsung's AU series "high quality" panel internally melting
                                          by Biruslapio
                                          I got this 55 inch AU7X00 TV, it was rebooting and showed no image only a blink of the backlights.

                                          I assumed it was either panel or motherboard. Turns out it was the panel, and after applying some tape on the ribbon cable that goes to the left side of the screen, the TV turned on with image, then I suddenly noticed a dark spot and the pixels were turning black on the left edge, I was sad and thought I smashed the screen somewhere, found nothing visually, it looked in perfect condition and if it was there before it would've been noticeable while I was inspecting the TV the first time....
                                          07-12-2024, 10:08 AM
                                        • Document Archive
                                          ASUS Pro Series D310MT-0G32500650 Pro Series G3250 Specification for Upgrade or Repair
                                          by Document Archive
                                          This specification for the ASUS Pro Series D310MT-0G32500650 can be useful for upgrading or repairing a desktop PC that is not working. As a community we are working through our specifications to add valuable data like the Pro Series D310MT-0G32500650 boardview and Pro Series D310MT-0G32500650 schematic. Our users have donated over 1 million documents which are being added to the site. This page will be updated soon with additional information. Alternatively you can request additional help from our users directly on the relevant badcaps forum. Please note that we offer no warranties that any specification,...
                                          09-12-2024, 03:28 PM
                                        • Document Archive
                                          ASUS Pro Series D320MT-TR362D Pro Series i3-6100 Specification for Upgrade or Repair
                                          by Document Archive
                                          This specification for the ASUS Pro Series D320MT-TR362D can be useful for upgrading or repairing a desktop PC that is not working. As a community we are working through our specifications to add valuable data like the Pro Series D320MT-TR362D boardview and Pro Series D320MT-TR362D schematic. Our users have donated over 1 million documents which are being added to the site. This page will be updated soon with additional information. Alternatively you can request additional help from our users directly on the relevant badcaps forum. Please note that we offer no warranties that any specification,...
                                          09-12-2024, 03:28 PM
                                        • Document Archive
                                          ASUS Pro Series D320SF-I564000134 Pro Series i5-6400 Specification for Upgrade or Repair
                                          by Document Archive
                                          This specification for the ASUS Pro Series D320SF-I564000134 can be useful for upgrading or repairing a desktop PC that is not working. As a community we are working through our specifications to add valuable data like the Pro Series D320SF-I564000134 boardview and Pro Series D320SF-I564000134 schematic. Our users have donated over 1 million documents which are being added to the site. This page will be updated soon with additional information. Alternatively you can request additional help from our users directly on the relevant badcaps forum. Please note that we offer no warranties that any specification,...
                                          09-12-2024, 03:28 PM
                                        • Loading...
                                        • No more items.
                                        Working...