Fsp250-60hen

[Junk Parts]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

I had a Hyundia car many years ago that I wanted to shoot. Didn't have to. It blew up all on its own.

[everell]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

I have POWMAX and DEER (L&C) that need the firing squad. But in looking a little closer at the pictures, this looks like an interesting power supply to study. I have three Sparkle FSP400-60GLC power supplies. I have spent some time playing with them and drawing schematics of whats inside. Compare the photos of the 400 watt version with the 250 watt psu here. Same basic layout, same SMALL heatsinks. This one has active PFC using two FETs instead of one. It also has 5vsb using DM311 pwm chip for RELIABLE 5vsb performance.

For those who enjoy the engineering aspects of power supply design, I will include my "crude" schematics to give you an idea of whats inside.

[370forlife]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

I do believe that is the FSP Epsilon platform. They are good up until about 500W, after that the ripple starts to get out of spec.

[everell]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

Today I got a OCZ Technology 850 watt power supply. Model is OCZGXS850. But the pc board marking tells the true story. It is a FSP850-80GLN. It uses the same 5vsb transformer and driver transformer as my 400 watter. The main switching transformer looks about the same size, but has a different part number. Here are some pictures of it, including a side by side of the 850 watter and the 400 watter. Notice the similarity of the component layout.

I don't know if it will actually do 850 watts anymore than 400 watts for the other. But I am now thinking that the 250 watter at the beginning of the post is using the same pattern, and is probably MUCH better than the PowMax and Deer power supplies. So what do you think???

On the 850 watter, notice how SMALL the output capacitors are!

[370forlife]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/p...850w_atx_psu/6

Take that one with a large grain of salt. I can't really find any real reputable review site with one, but they claim they have a custom built tester for power supplies and they put it under a 886W load. But those voltage regulation numbers look a little too good. These FSP builds aren't that good of performers. No scope shots either, and these platforms aren't known for well controlled ripple at higher wattages.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

I don't know if it will actually do 850 watts anymore than 400 watts for the other. But I am now thinking that the 250 watter at the beginning of the post is using the same pattern, and is probably MUCH better than the PowMax and Deer power supplies. So what do you think???

I fully agree, it is a way better design than deer powersupplies
However as I don't have a scope to check the ripple I could not really fix it (it was killing harddrives)
However the other scope we used worked fine on it

[everell]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

it was killing harddrives

The emachines with the Bestec ATX-250 12E killed the mother board, hard drive, and everything. So as you can see, your Fortron 250 watter was a much better power supply. It only killed hard drives!

Most of the power in the 850 watter is for the +12 volt output, so my take on the problem is that you were putting too much load on the +12 volt rail when using that 250 watt power supply. How many hard drives did you have attached to it???

[POM_MJ]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

The emachines with the Bestec ATX-250 12E killed the mother board, hard drive, and everything. So as you can see, your Fortron 250 watter was a much better power supply. It only killed hard drives!

Wow, the harddrives killer was born!.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

Most of the power in the 850 watter is for the +12 volt output, so my take on the problem is that you were putting too much load on the +12 volt rail when using that 250 watt power supply. How many hard drives did you have attached to it???

Not my system, it was some Gateway or similar shit that killed it's original PSU, got this thing under warranty
Get this, it had a Q6600 too
Now I know about power consumption of computers, that Q6600 wont be pulling 250w on the DC side
So in the end it was too crappy of a PSU
Most likely due to the heatsinks, i.e. when it got loaded like 80% or so the switching transistors probably became too hot so they could not deliver a stable current for the computer
Harddrives are the most sensitive components inside a computer, they really can't handle a poorly filtered current
This PSU would have needed bigger heatsinks, bigger primary capacitor and bigger secondary capacitors, plus there are some empty spots on the secondary too...

[everell]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

This series of power supplies has Active Power Factor Correction. That means it was a 250 watt psu MINUS the power consumed by the APFC circuit. So with APFC it was a more efficient power supply........more efficient at killing hard drives!!!

[Per Hansson]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

everell; no, the 250w rating is at the secondary side, it does not involve the primary.
I.e. with a 250w power rating at the secondary and an efficiency rating of say 80% it would be pulling ca 300w on the primary side

Plus with APFC the primary capacitor is run at a higher voltage, so you get more energy storage. (Power stored = capacitance times voltage squared.)

You must remember that without PFC or APFC the reactive load causes heating of the compenents aswell, the APFC reduces this heating (heating = power loss) so infact the APFC offsets some of the PSU's other components efficiency loss due to the reduction in the reactive load.
Atleast that's my understanding of PFC

[everell]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

So in the end it was too crappy of a PSU
Most likely due to the heatsinks, i.e. when it got loaded like 80% or so the switching transistors probably became too hot so they could not deliver a stable current for the computer

This PSU would have needed bigger heatsinks........

If your theory about less heat with APFC is true, then this power supply having smaller heat sinks should have been acceptable.

Look at a psu without APFC. You only see TWO heat sinks. With APFC, such as this power supply, you see THREE heat sinks. The third heat sink is for the FET and diode in the APFC circuit. So if APFC reduces heat, then you should be able to remove that third heat sink. Try it and see what happens!!!

Generating enough heat to require the EXTRA heat sink means additional power is being consumed. Is that extra power part of the 250 watt rating? How can you be sure that it isn't......maybe just more marketing hype. Can you believe and have confidence in the labels put on these power supplies???

A power supply with a true 250 watt output should have been plenty for that computer. The power supply we are talking about is labeled 250 watts and has APF correction. So it IS more efficient. It more efficiently blows out hard drives.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

If your theory about less heat with APFC is true, then this power supply having smaller heat sinks should have been acceptable.

Scroll up and you will see me saying what this PSU needs to be decent to begin with is bigger heatsinks

Look at a psu without APFC. You only see TWO heat sinks. With APFC, such as this power supply, you see THREE heat sinks. The third heat sink is for the FET and diode in the APFC circuit. So if APFC reduces heat, then you should be able to remove that third heat sink. Try it and see what happens!!!

Umm, I said that APFC reduces the heating caused by reactive loading (poor PFC) in the other components, i.e. that it moves that heat loss into the APFC circuit instead, and that doing this probably slighly offsets the reduction of efficiency that APFC causes

Generating enough heat to require the EXTRA heat sink means additional power is being consumed. Is that extra power part of the 250 watt rating? How can you be sure that it isn't......maybe just more marketing hype. Can you believe and have confidence in the labels put on these power supplies???

A power supply with a true 250 watt output should have been plenty for that computer. The power supply we are talking about is labeled 250 watts and has APF correction. So it IS more efficient. It more efficiently blows out hard drives.

Why the hell do you think we shot it into pieces, because it was a decent powersupply well worth saving?

[manuelw]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

its very easyyy:
you can buy new one directly from pc-macedonia at pc-macedonia.com

http://pc-macedonia.com/products/B41...wer-Supply-PSU

[Per Hansson]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

manuelw; You are over 2 years late to the party but welcome to Badcaps.net
I would never buy this PSU new though, €30 is very expensive for target practice

[everell]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

manuelw; You are over 2 years late to the party

Oh Deer.......................

Perhaps 2 years late, but those pictures were classic - glad he resurrected them.

I spent a lot of time fixing and documenting that FSP platform. But in the end, what I put in my computer was a "fixed" Bestec ATX-250 12E. It does not blow hard drives, it does not blow the mother board, and it keeps on going..............

[Per Hansson]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

Thanks
It's been very interesting following your PSU rebuild threads.
Especially the 5vsb modifications

[tom66]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

Sometimes APFC is moved onto the other heatsinks, so you can have just two heatsinks. Having three isn't a requirement for APFC.

APFC produces more heat and makes PSU less efficient, but it often turns out to be cheaper than non-PFC for >150W nowadays, especially necessary if you want to sell it in Europe.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

I'm reviving the thread because I got an FSP250-60HEN for free!

When I got it, it was full of dust. But it's still working!

The APFC heatsink is the thinnest heatsink I have seen in an ATX power supply! The other 2 heatsinks look bad too.

When designing this power supply, great effort has been made to cut costs. As a result, the PCB uses just 2 screws to be secured on metal case

The secondary heatsink is screwed to the metal case of the psu and thermal paste has been used, turning the psu case to a huge heatsink!

The primary capacitor is Teapo 100uF 400V. This is a value you could expect in laptop power adapters, not ATX psus rated for 250W!

The capacitors are a selection of Teapo SY, Capxon KF and OST RLP. Guess what! The Teapo and OST caps look fine, while all the Capxon caps are bulging. This adds to what I'm claiming for years, that Capxon are awful and should not be considered on par with Teapo, OST, Samxon, Taicon and other non-Japanese caps.

I would like to fix this psu, because it has some positive aspects one cannot ignore:

-250W unit with APFC

-MBR3060CT for 12V

-It is indeed a dual 12V rail psu. 12V output has 3 caps and 2 coils. The coils are used for filtering and current limiting.

-Main transformer and 5vsb transformer are of proper size.

-5vsb generated with DM311 IC, so it's not going to cook your motherboard.

pdavid already experimented with this platform before:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...ghlight=fsp250

What do you think?

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Fsp250-60hen

The primary capacitor is Teapo 100uF 400V. This is a value you could expect in laptop power adapters, not ATX psus rated for 250W!

why??
when 270uF is sensible for 400W and 180uF for 300-350W, then 100uF for 250W seems logical.

The capacitors are a selection of Teapo SY, Capxon KF and OST RLP. Guess what! The Teapo and OST caps look fine, while all the Capxon caps are bulging. This adds to what I'm claiming for years, that Capxon are awful and should not be considered on par with Teapo, OST, Samxon, Taicon and other non-Japanese caps.

You make one mistake:
Look at the Series Charts of the manufacturers.
Teapo SY is some mid range one.
Capxon KF is the worst they have to offer. GL seems to be much much better (and reliable)

What really would help if we had the prices of the caps from the manufacturer directly...
If we had that info, we could better assume the quality...

My guess would be that CapXon KF might be a bit cheaper than even Teapo SC...

-5vsb generated with DM311 IC, so it's not going to cook your motherboard.

Well, those seem to explode from time to time...