Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

[PlainBill]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

clclorbin, a couple of things come to mind. The darkened area around D20 isn't normal. Have you checked D20?

Detecting shorted windings on a transformer with an ohmmeter is pretty unreliable, although the difference you found is interesting. A ring tester is much more reliable.

PlainBill

[i4004]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

>Now I'm starting to wonder if that PWM IC has decided to pack it in or is latched due to an overload.

then unload it and test(but feedback circuit should stay connected)...or see if you can find any shorted components on the secondary side...

should be noted that trafos going short isn't very often, in more cases semis or passive components will be the problem.

i have some notes on the trafos resistance(back when i was building esr meter i needed trafo so i was taking those from dismantled psus) and it doesn't seem too weird to have 0.3 or 0.5ohm there, indeed.

yes, as bill says d20 should be checked...i didn't mention that because i thought you already checked it and it was ok so you didn't mention it...

if it's ok it could be viewed as another indication oki ic is problematic; if it was passing too much current via too long duty cycles...

[i4004]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

these were the trafos

http://bbsrv.wks.gorlaeus.net/~i4004...nsformers.html

[clcorbin]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

Well it is dead now! I replaced the the two small caps (47uF 35V and 10uF 50V). I had a 47uF 35V cap in FC series, but I only had a 47uF 50V HA SMD cap to for that 10uF (testing only of course!).

When I powered it up, it promptly blew the OKI50 off the board. I might have shorted something out with that SMD cap (mounted to the solder side of the board, correct polarization) unknowingly.

Oh well. I'll break this thing down later and see what parts I can salvage (besides all my new caps!). I've already got the data I needed off the hard drives of the old server, but it still sucks to not be able to get to the bottom of this issue and fix this PS.

[clcorbin]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

And I forgot to say, thanks for all the help troubleshooting this thing. It is appreciated!

[i4004]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

>When I powered it up, it promptly blew the OKI50 off the board. I might have shorted something out with that SMD cap (mounted to the solder side of the board, correct polarization) unknowingly.

now say thanks to toasty for promtping you to change those.
overall i dislike the blind focus on caps alone some members of this forum exhibit...

and a suggestion to replace 47uf cap with 100uf(that made you replace 10uf with 47uf) in the pwm ic circuit of unknown pwm ic(oki50)...
meh...that's crap.

i am dissapointed.

if cap is suspicious, measure it with esr meter(don't have one? buy it) if it's bad, replace with a new cap that's known good(measure new one too). blindly changing caps and putting much higher values in unknown circuit is rubbish.

[Toasty]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

Don't start with me bud. Play them games with PC, not me.

I said change the 47uF cap. -PERIOD-

The OKI50 chip should be on somebody's PSU in the forums and I would think it would be sent to you for the postage alone.

Check around here before you go ripping everything apart.

Toast

[i4004]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

>I said change the 47uF cap. -PERIOD-

that is a blunt lie. you said:

"Replace the 47uF cap and see if it comes back to life. Grab a close value from another supply if you have one. Up to 100uF would be okay,"

(this is not a game, these are your words)

how the hell you know what's ok in that circuit?

now, may as well be the case he shorted something with that smd cap, yeah, but you just don't go telling rookies it's ok to put 2x capacitance in unknown circuit.
not unless you personally have experience with same psu(ie you've put that cap with twice capacitance and it worked ok).

also, like i said, approach of "change all the caps, ask questions later" is crap: change the component that failed, which may, or may not be the cap.
everybody changing all the lytics they can just means no troubleshooting is being done.

>The OKI50 chip should be on somebody's PSU in the forums and I would think it would be sent to you for the postage alone.

good suggestion.

[Toasty]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

You are a fucking moron.

Read what he SAID he put in there: "I had a 47uF 35V cap in FC series, but I only had a 47uF 50V HA SMD cap to for that 10uF"

HE chose to replace an aluminum electrolytic with a SMD cap. I NEVER said to replace that 10uF cap. ---->>>>ONLY THE 47uF one<<<<----

HE came here for assistance and chose to follow our advice and seemed to have sufficient knowledge on what to do and what to look for.

No go fuck off and be an arguementative TROLL on someone else's forums. Stop coming here and starting arguments just for the sake starting them. It's tiresome and annoying that a full 50% of the posts in this thread ALONE are between you and somebody else over total and UTTER BULLSHIT about absolutely nothing. They do not contribute 1 -->ONE<-- iota to solving this persons PSU problems of which several of us are WELL VERSED BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE SAME PSU's. Jackass.

Toast

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

You are a fucking moron.

Read what he SAID he put in there: "I had a 47uF 35V cap in FC series, but I only had a 47uF 50V HA SMD cap to for that 10uF"

HE chose to replace an aluminum electrolytic with a SMD cap. I NEVER said to replace that 10uF cap. ---->>>>ONLY THE 47uF one<<<<----

HE came here for assistance and chose to follow our advice and seemed to have sufficient knowledge on what to do and what to look for.

No go fuck off and be an arguementative TROLL on someone else's forums. Stop coming here and starting arguments just for the sake starting them. It's tiresome and annoying that a full 50% of the posts in this thread ALONE are between you and somebody else over total and UTTER BULLSHIT about absolutely nothing. They do not contribute 1 -->ONE<-- iota to solving this persons PSU problems of which several of us are WELL VERSED BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE SAME PSU's. Jackass.

Toast

SALUTE!

[clcorbin]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

I'm not too worried about killing this supply. Shit happens. Personally, I THINK I shorted something out with the SMD cap. WAY too much voltage was stuffed through that little OKI for it to just be an issue with the size of the cap.

Either way, it doesn't really matter at this point. The reason I decided to go ahead an use the MUCH bigger cap there is I had decided I wasn't going to spend another penny on this silly thing until I got some life out of +5sbv.

I guess I won't have to spend another penny on it...

I do have one question: Is all the bickering normal for this site? Different sites have very different dynamics, so I don't want to make any assumptions on if this is normal or not.

[kc8adu]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

this bickerinig bullshit is NOT the norm here.
maybe we can add a subforum called the shit storm or the war room.
i agree this is counterproductive.
looks like a few folks here need to grow up.

[Toasty]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

I agree with the problem caused by the SMD cap. I don't know why it would cause it but a little investigation may reveal the reason.

I apologize for the bickering. You'll see that 99-44/100ths percent of the time everything is discussed, disputed, and resolved in a considerate and reasonable manner on the forums. The problems are centered around one individual to the point where he has been blocked by several people and simply ignored by others. You'll note that when said person is involved in a discussion, MANY of the uber-techs and engineers just simply stay clear of the discussion.

Again, my apologies for the bickering and please don't be a stranger here. It has been most enjoyable, sans the attempts to sandbag the discussion.

Respectfully,
Toast

[kc8adu]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

back to the op's unit.
post some good pics of that board.
all those units that have crossed my bench needed only caps.
but they all are a similar design with the same basic parts.
not sure what that oki chip is.
iirc these used a 3842.
edit.now i see the pics.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

Arguing comes and goes like anywhere else but it's usually more of a lighthearted nature and constructive in some way. "I think you should check this". "No, you don't need to check that." Sort of thing..

On those occasions it erodes into outright bickering i4004 is usually involved.

i4004 likes to argue over BS and irrelevant [to the problem or question] details JUST for something to do which is a HUGE waste of everyone else's time.
- Time that could be spent solving the problem...
And,, he's been way out of control lately. [again]

As Toast said, i4004 is tiresome and annoying.
Some of us here have been putting up with his BS for years and the fuses are short.
.
.

[PlainBill]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

To me the bickering between i4004 and PCBONEZ is inevitable. One's only 4 bits wide, the other is 16!

PlainBill

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

At least 4 and 16 are greater that 1.
- Cheap shot from bystander deserves response in kind.

[i4004]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

toasty, because bonez has some privileges with me(and i don't really mind his insults, even though it's usually him that starts with insults) it doesn't mean you get to write whatever you like however you like, and i would hate to think you can insult me, and i can't insult you right back(otherwise it's unfair) ergo i'll address your..hm.."post":
note that i don't support this kind of conversation and i indeed think this is NOT norm of this forum(it's more of an rare exception), but if you spit me in the face for no good reason, i'll spit you right back...except for bonez, if he spits me i'll wash it off and kiss him right back...hehe


>You are a fucking moron.

you're a senile bastard.

>Read what he SAID he put in there: "I had a 47uF 35V cap in FC series, but I only had a 47uF 50V HA SMD cap to for that 10uF"
HE chose to replace an aluminum electrolytic with a SMD cap. I NEVER said to replace that 10uF cap. ---->>>>ONLY THE 47uF one<<<<----

it is your words he used to derive the premise "i can put the bigger cap, it'll be ok" which he then applied.
can many times higher capacitance blow the ic? why not? we don't know anything about that ic. we do see it's tiny and it's not driving trafo directly so it's obviously only "signal" ic. not ment for high currents that much higher cap can produce...

otoh, it may as well be "operators error"(he shorted something) and in that case it's not your direct fault, but it is wrong to suggest much higher capacitance in unknown circuit nevertheless.

>No go fuck off and be an arguementative TROLL on someone else's forums.

because this is your forum? hehe...
no, you go fuck off and then be all too clever to suggest using much higher capacitance is ok again....


>Stop coming here and starting arguments just for the sake starting them.

never. i never do this and it's easy to check that.
here i've just tried to convince bonez those toroid shaped things are not trafo...and i would like to thank others for supporting me(because anybody into electronics really knows torroid trafos don't exist in pc psus...)...heh...

then i've objected on your broad sweeping and general suggestion it's ok to put 2x capacitance...which you seem to transplant from some usuall suggestions from the motherboard world etc.
the issue is we know what we can put into mobos(it was tried and tested), and we DON'T know what we can put here.
now, if it turns out we CAN put such caps at this place (or cap, as you like to say you suggested to replace just one) without ill effect i'll apologize to you.
BUT I WILL STILL GO AGAINST GENERAL NOTION OF ALLOWING PUTTING 2X CAPACITANCE IN UNKNOWN CIRCUIT!

>full 50% of the posts in this thread ALONE are between you and somebody else over total and UTTER BULLSHIT about absolutely nothing.

what can i say, bonez is stubborn, and if i didn't end it we would still be talkign about torroid...hehe...
and it's not "somebody else" or "anybody else"....it's bonez...
we all have names, and i wasn't arguing with all participants of this or any other thread.

>They do not contribute 1 -->ONE<-- iota to solving this persons PSU problems of which several of us are WELL VERSED BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE SAME PSU's. Jackass.

true that toroid discussion doesn't help indeed, but if bonez just said "thank you for correcting me"(which would be fair) it wouldn't prolong so much...
oh yeah, you're a moron.
and oh yeah, you're not well versed in this psu, because if you were you would have the instant solution for his problem...overall you're not well versed with psus at all, based on comments in bestec thread and based on fact that (other person's) mac psu is rotting away in your house without you repairing it...

bonez has this psu and if corbin was to follow just his and mine suggestions there would be higher chance his psu would be in better shape right now...(as bonez has that psus so he can check things on it...check trafo, check resistance of particular pins of ic..whatever...we could of done it all...we really could...)

now everything is ruined when it comes to troubleshooting this interesting malfunction...and that is a dissapointment for me...we could of done better job here if it wasn't for your post(s).


---------
corbin
>Either way, it doesn't really matter at this point.

half-done job does matter. if somebody else comes with same problem tomorrow we'll be starting from scratch. and that's not nice, given that you were on a right path to solve the issue. it's obvious you like electronics and would do a good job of troubleshooting this psu, with out guidance.
bare the suggestion to just swap the caps and that 2x capacitance is ok.

with psus badcaps are usually instantly visible, and when they're involved in 5vstby failure they're bloated and the circuit they're in overheats extensively, and here none of that really happened.
here chances are that ic become marginal and this bigger capacitance blew it off the board...OR you've shorted it, but if you have there should be some sign on poly you used...burn marks, or something...

-----------------------
>The problems are centered around one individual to the point where he has been blocked by several people and simply ignored by others. You'll note that when said person is involved in a discussion, MANY of the uber-techs and engineers just simply stay clear of the discussion.

you're generalizing based on two threads where i was correcting bunch of wrong things that were said...in that thread about isolation trafo i provided pix that show how/why is what some have said wrong...

so no, don't expect me to watch wrong things being said here...i'll correct it if i have better data...if i'm wrong, correct it and if it makes sense or if i'm obviosuly wrong i'll apologize(like i always do)....no problem.
but this shouting at me for correcting you, nope...won't do.
i'll forgive such things to pcbonez, but you're not pcbonez.
bonez is rather carefull when suggesting replacements.
you're not.
-------------------

>i4004 likes to argue over BS and irrelevant [to the problem or question] details JUST for something to do which is a HUGE waste of everyone else's time.
- Time that could be spent solving the problem...
And,, he's been way out of control lately. [again]

bonez, you have 2 problems; 1st of all you are mighty stubborn, and you'll never accept my correction, no matter how obvious it is you're wrong(like in this toroid trafo issue).
2nd; you seem to transplant a lot of the hate from previous thread into current ones, which is to say that you'll remember we had a quarell over jamaica and then you go assuming i'm wrong any everything else JUST BECAUSE I DIDN'T AGREE WITH YOU IN SOME OTHER THREAD.
you'll also remember i say there are more capacitor quality classes than just "good and bad" and that just blows your top off.
and we're back at stubborness again; it doesn't matter if others have supported such views of mine....you just have a prejudice that goes "i4004=wrong" and that's nonsense.
like i said to toasty above, anytime i'm wrong i apologize.
BUT YOU HAVE TO PROVE ME WRONG.
when you just repeat the "you don't know" mantra, it doesn't constitute for proving me wrong. when i prove your wrong, i show relevant data etc. i don's just say "you don't know and i do".

as for irrelevance; in that isolation. trafo thread everything i said is relevant to the question u asked; it IS relevant for galvanic isolation to know what's inside power brick. and i was telling you about it. i was telling you because i have taken apart many such bricks, because i was equally curios as you.
but you didn't accept those suggestions, mostly because "i4004=wrong".
get rid of that prejudice and we'll be just fine.
accept what i say. offcourse, doublecheck it for yourself just incase if in doubt.

here i admit we had a bunch of crap in toroid trafo(you seem to like bickering about trafos, don't you?) issue, but hey, i just corrected your stuff and you were not able to accept the truth. what i said is a fact. you do notice i won't go forever once i percept i'm talking to a wall.

>Some of us here have been putting up with his BS for years and the fuses are short.

i don't think that's true at all. another (3rd) issue you have is that you mistake "us" for "me". it's not "some of us", it's you(i don't have such issues with 99% of this forum's members..). you and i had some quarells because of your stubborness and it was mostly year ago this started, afaik.
i remember you wouldn't let go the issue of jamaica and the caps quality classification.
and these 2 things in last week. transformers.

i have SOME understanding, mind you; it also happens to me that some things are just hard to remember and one seems to be stuck with forgetting particular thing.
what i don't understand is stubborness: i'm not against you when i correct your stuff about trafo; i'm just correcting your stuff. don't percept this as personal insults as they're not. when you correct me i won't be so stubborn to accept it.
obviosuly, not about jamaica or capacitor quality grading, as you have less proof there.
(offtopic: you know, when i tell you elna cap was bloated it really was, you know. i didn't invent it just because i dislike elna, because i don't really know anything about them. why you can't accept such things is beyond me)

>At least 4 and 16 are greater that 1.
- Cheap shot from bystander deserves response in kind.

well said.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

~ See ~

[i4004]

Re: Well, I just joined the club. And the forum! Antec TP 550 EPS died.

i bet you've read the bold parts and liked them!
<wink>
(will you now reply? hehe.....lol!)

but your tactic is interesting. out of respect to written word and human beings i wouldn't use it on anyone(it insults the reason), but still, interesting.

overall, it wouln't be fair to go without addressing most of what all of you raised.
i just don't ignore anyone. it's rude and uncivilised.
however bonez i would like you to ignore my stuff when i say you to(which i did in this thread)...hehe...