Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

[mazade]

Hello to you all,
We've very-recently acquired a 1996 Hurco Hawk 5 SSM(single screen) CNC Mill, and are doing a little clean-up prior to putting it in service(quite anxious).
While we have seen this mill in operation prior to purchasing, it was learned from the prior owner that they kept the PC-side of the machine on continually, and that it 'always' had issues starting cold(lower temps and/or starting up for the day)... this being the PC-side too. These machines came with an integrated 486 board & setup for handling the G-code & Conversational Part Programming... basically a dos-box.
On to the power supply --
Like all good power supplies, this one has a manual switch built into it, but when initially switched on(pc-side only, running off 120VAC into the PSU), there is nothing coming out from the power supply, and in fact it doesn't sound like it's doing anything at all. After about 5 minutes, all of a sudden you hear that electronic "squealing-grinding"(dirty transformer noise?) and things slowly begin to come on from there. After another 5-10 minutes the 'grinding' part starts to go away and you're left with a high-pitch tone. The "that does it" moment came a bit ago when I noticed that the PC-side kept trying to boot and would reset, and reset, and reset, etc...randomly not even making it through the bios memory test because of unstable power(bad guess?). Pulled the PC-box out of the CNC controller unit, and pulled the power supply out.
Downstream caps are large-capacity Lelon and Panasonic.
The insulation around three large wire-wound resistors is burnt, seemingly centered around one of them.

I suppose one thing to consider seriously, aside from replacing all those wire-wound resistors, is replacing the caps just for age reasons, assuming they could be dried out, or something...
I may also get in touch with Hurco(I hear that they still service/support these older machines) and see what can be learned.

Looking for pointers or insight. This hack only understands so much about these things.
Thank you.

[stj]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

the delayed startup is probably caused by the small caps lower-center - replace them with something like panasonic FC series.
the ones on the right are probably also petty gone, i'm thinking panasonic FR series maybe.

the only thing i would do with the resistors is resolder them.


got any foto's of the motherboard?

[kc8adu]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

replace all lytics now.dont even try to run it till you do and verify +5 is in spec.
it sucks to be you if it kills the sbc and that special video card!
i have fixed a lot of these.you are one of the few lucky ones.
iirc that one uses the same predator 747 board as the ultimax dual screen.

[mazade]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

Good input, thank you both.
Heh, didn't even notice the small caps in the center there, doh!
Where might I acquire the monster input caps??
I did acquire the 'badcaps.net' general power supply recap kit some time ago... should that suffice for most of these?

The unit has been running recently too, I actually had it all up and running a few days ago, spindle, servo's and all... I just haven't cut(milled/machined) anything with it yet. I suppose lucky may be a fair enough description...

Again, thank you.
P.S. Mobo pics coming soon... will be recapping some things this evening.

[kc8adu]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

the primary caps i get from digikey.
the resistors are ok just resolder.
the lelons are cooked.

[japlytic]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

Such equipment is expensive to replace and electrolytic capacitors which run hot throughout their life can discolour and not bulge in some cases.
I see no Panasonic capacitors, but I do see Chemi-Con units.

[stj]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

I see no Panasonic capacitors, but I do see Chemi-Con units.

the black one in the middle of the secondary's has the "M"atsushita logo.

[mazade]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

Thanks again for the contributions.
Hmmm, any direction(s) regarding these caps found on the board...?
Standard 3.0uF 200v
Sprague 2.0uF 250v

Didn't end up replacing anything last night, just stared at it and copied down info.

Regarding the 'smaller' caps in the center(likely the reason for my delayed starting); should I replace them with 'similar value' or 'same value' capacitors...? Ex. one of them is 25v 100uF... I have 25v 220uF ... I understand that maintaining these values is critical at times

Thanks again.

P.S. I didn't spot anything on the board(s) designating "Predator 747"... but I'm still new to this and probably don't know where to look...

[stj]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

those 2 high voltage yellow caps are polyester or some other solid type - forget them.

as for values, try to match them.
improving the esr and using 105' temp ones is good.

best thing, make a list of all the electrolytics.
uf, voltage, diameter <important for the replacement to fit.
and i'll see about matching up some good replacements.

btw, did you remove a heatsink from that 486 cpu?
i have used lots, and never seen one without a heatsink.

[stj]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

btw, if any of the caps are rated higher than 85' say so.

[mazade]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

Heheh, I've messed with a lot of computers myself, and never seen one operating naked like that one is/was... perhaps I'll thermal-adhesive-bond a decent one on there.
So, forget the yellow caps, ok.... what about that white one hiding behind those resistors.... Sprague 2.0uf 250V??
Thank you.

[stj]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

that's another plastic film one.

[kaboom]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

the black one in the middle of the secondary's has the "M"atsushita logo.

It's a Chemi-Con.

That "M" is denoting the usual 20% tolerance part.

[mazade]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

Hello again,
Well I did a little snooping around my "badcaps.net"-supplied capacitors, and found the proper caps(performed some voltage testing, too) for most of the caps on the board.
Not meaning to be brazen or insolent, but I did go ahead and purchase what caps seemed sufficient to the task at hand(highest hours @ highest-temp, etc). Of course, if this idiot has chosen wrong, I welcome your criticism, and will likely be purchasing whatever is deemed better.

These are what I invested in:
+5V line-out(was previously 10V 4700uF, 85')
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0/493-1716-ND
{The PW series features low impedance and high reliability a lifetime rating of up to 8000 hours @ 105°C.}

Mains(on 120VAC)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0/493-1396-ND
-----------------------

I am curious about the caps I'm seeing on the Servo Amp boards(seeing 200VDC), and the very-large cap(haven't searched it yet for details).
Is this just a matter of 'it's an old lytic, replace it!' ?

Ahh, yes, though I doubted the (M) being anything but panny's symbol, it was indeed just the temp-tolerance designation. Heh, every now & again this fool learns something without the need for getting ... not too often though.

Other cap's pics...

Thanks for all the input, certainly.

[mazade]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

Bah... now I'm seeing where I've already goofed up, it would seem. I need to be learning about cap-series, and when Low ESR vs 'this trait' vs 'that trait' is to be desired more than what I was looking at/for in my purchasing. Stoopid.

[stj]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

well you fucked that up, for a start the foto makes me think the mains caps are 10mm snap-in contacts.

that's why i asked the diameter of each of the caps!

[mazade]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

I don't exactly get it, but I do tend to take the jackass route in so many situations, and, honestly, my tendency towards that does frustrate me as well.
Anyhow....
So I did end up grabbing a Panasonic FC series cap for one of the 'middle' positions, and some Nichicon PW's for the "right side" caps, but the rest were filled in with Rubycon ZLG's. Oh yeah, and then there's the mains, those got replaced, too. A little O-scope testing on the +5V, and basic multimeter checks for the other outputs.... slap the power supply back together, re-assemble the computer-stuff into the machine, and now we've got Zero-noise, and immediate start-up of the whole Hurco CNC setup... I did play with it for a couple hours this afternoon for some testing & verification.
Now I just need to learn this whole conversational parts programming thing, as I'm really scratching my head at this point... on to the next challenge.
Perhaps I'll get after the 200V servo-drive caps, someday. They are all pre-supplied by that single, large, 5400uf cap.

Thank you all for bearing with me, and for every bit of input given.

[japlytic]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

I see that the 486DX2-66 CPU does not have a heatsink and fan on it.
Was it running without its heatsink and fan since it was built?

[mazade]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

Hi there,
Yeah, it actually was(as we received it, at least), and somehow functioned just fine all these years(previous owner had alluded to having some heat issues, and installed another case-fan on the electrical cabinet housing). I had put my hand on it once after a little test run and it certainly was uncomfortably warm.
However...
upon this latest re-assembly I did use some thermal-transfer-adhesive to bond a 2x2"(perhaps larger, still) aluminum heatsink to it, and that ought to help out with any temperature issues.

[mazade]

Re: Hurco Hawk5 CNC, PC Power Supply Needs R&R

A little update:
The Hurco machine has not been used a whole lot since the rebuild, but certainly enough to note some other issues...
1) Normally difficult time getting the axes to calibrate upon startup, sometimes 5+ minutes trying & retrying... hoping to get beyond a "marker not detected" message that would keep coming up.
2) Quill/Z-axis is often just twitchy and will shut-down the servo-side due to positioning & movement-faults... then there's those scary moments when it just starts rapidly slamming around searching for its limits, or something(only happened a few times). Not cool.

Regarding the first issue listed, I think that's been beaten by replacing the two-caps on the three(1 per axis) servo-controller(amplifier?) boards. The two caps are 200V 220uf, and 50v 22uf.
For the larger, I ended up using Nippon Chemi-con KMH, and somewhere in the size range of 1" diameter x 3/4" tall.
For the smaller, Rubycon 50v 47uf, acquired from badcaps.net.
Oh yes, the 'mega' 200V 5400uf cap, which supplies these boards, was swapped out at the same time.
So, turn on the Hurco system, fire up the servo's, and watch as it successfully calibrates on the first attempt. Hooray for good caps!

Now for this twitchy & faulty Z-axis thing.... thinking it may have something to do with that servo & encoder.