Opinion about PSU (after recap)

[Dan81]

So I've been thinking of getting a new PSU for my P4VM800 rig for cheap.

The PSU is a Premier LC-B400ATX. I know,a Deer PSU. However,I have a "green label" Delux ATX-400W P4 (AT-2005B) with Saturn (YC) caps,which does 250W without any problems (mind you it has two fans installed by me ) so I thought of swapping the caps over.

Question for you: given that I replace the considerably crappier caps in the Premier with the ones from my Delux (which are better ,cooling helps) will this prevent it from burning down? I also may install missing pieces on the Premier from my Delux.

[momaka]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

Each Deer/L&C/Solytech PSU is a unique piece of "art" in terms of cost cutting techniques. So you will have to asses after you get the PSU.

If it's from the L&C line, all bets are off that you can just do a cap swap and have anything decent. Think, no input/output filtering, small parts and heatsinks, and small rectifiers. And pray for no diodes-on-a-bracket.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

You're basically replacing crap caps with more crap caps in a crap PSU. I wouldn't bother.

[Dan81]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

You're basically replacing crap caps with more crap caps in a crap PSU. I wouldn't bother.

Not really. SpeedFan told that my Delux had all voltages in spec, and that with the Saturn caps it has. A L&C-based Premier (LC-B400ATX - clearly sounds like a L&C) would have them haywire.

(BTW yes,I know I shouldn't trust voltage detecting software like SpeedFan or the MB BIOS)

However,I am thinking of replacing the secondary caps (dem small ones) with a mix of KZEs and Rubycon MBZ or Sanyo WGs (depending on what rating the crap caps have printed on them). Are those good for using in a PSU?

P.S : L&C=Deer,right? If so,do these have places for diodes on the PCB? Might save them from destroying the PSU. Anyways,it's a Premier. It's going to work?Okay. It won't,still okay.

[stj]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

MBZ etc are too low esr for that,
you should use panasonic FR / FK or some rubycon equiv.

[Dan81]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

MBZ etc are too low esr for that,
you should use panasonic FR / FK or some rubycon equiv.

Okay,will the KZE work then? Or the Sanyos?

[stj]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

no idea, i dont use nippon-chemicon or sanyo.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

Why bother with such a low quality unit at all?
Isn't it more expansive to get a set of caps for it than to buy a decent quality PSU?

[Dan81]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

Delux - my second PC's PSU

incoming Premier - for having fun with it and maybe a try to recap using 16v 1500uf KY caps from PS2 PSUs. What are the original caps ratings in that Premier LC-B400ATX BTW?

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

Why bother with such a low quality unit at all?

Because us Romanians are (very) cheap. Been there too. After you see a few computers where everything's blown due to a bad PSU (or worse, have it happen to one of your own) you finally change your opinion...

[c_hegge]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

Why bother with such a low quality unit at all?
Isn't it more expansive to get a set of caps for it than to buy a decent quality PSU?

Whaaaaaaaat?! Caps cost a few cents each. Maybe $1 or so for larger or more unusual sizes. It's $5-10 in caps vs $50 for a new PSU (which, at that price will also have junk caps and suffer the same fate in a few years).

On a cheap unit, then I would agree that you don't bother recapping it, as they aren't even worth $5 in caps.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

Whaaaaaaaat?! Caps cost a few cents each. Maybe $1 or so for larger or more unusual sizes. It's $5-10 in caps vs $50 for a new PSU (which, at that price will also have junk caps and suffer the same fate in a few years).

50$ for a new PSU? Where do you live?
And there's also this one (Beware, German!)

I don't know if they deliver to romania and there's also the problem with the size of that unit (100m height)...

Besides there are some PSUs in the sub 400W range that costs only about 30€...
As well as this baby (80mm fan, Seasonic S12 basis)...

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

Whaaaaaaaat?! Caps cost a few cents each. Maybe $1 or so for larger or more unusual sizes. It's $5-10 in caps vs $50 for a new PSU (which, at that price will also have junk caps and suffer the same fate in a few years).

I'm sure you know this already, caps alone don't make a PSU. It is more important what the PSU does if/when the caps fail, rather than what caps are in there and whether they will fail within a few years or not.

With the cheapies, you also get a complete lack of protection circuitry - which, even with good caps, will still blow up your motherboard if a major oopsie happens. That's why i said it isn't worth recapping. Particularly not with caps pulled from another cheapie.

Fun, educational, interesting? Yes. But of no particular value, as the rest of the circuitry in it is still going to be bottom-of-the-barrel Chinese junk which you still cannot trust.

On a cheap unit, then I would agree that you don't bother recapping it, as they aren't even worth $5 in caps.

We are talking about cheap units here. These things cost $15-$20 new, or came free with computer cases.

[stj]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

better chinese, than turkish. (the vestel factory)

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

Is there anyone that would recap this thing?

http://www.e-shop.gr/force-450w-psu-bulk-p-PER.700258

Yeah, it's a Deer/L&C.

@Stefan Payne, here you can get this:
http://www.e-shop.gr/coolermaster-el...t-p-PER.807679

[c_hegge]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

50$ for a new PSU? Where do you live?
And there's also this one (Beware, German!)

I don't know if they deliver to romania and there's also the problem with the size of that unit (100m height)...

Besides there are some PSUs in the sub 400W range that costs only about 30€...
As well as this baby (80mm fan, Seasonic S12 basis)...

They're not available here. The reason I said $50 is because anything less than that is usually total junk (with the exception of a few more uncommon brands, like In Win Power Men)

I'm sure you know this already, caps alone don't make a PSU. It is more important what the PSU does if/when the caps fail, rather than what caps are in there and whether they will fail within a few years or not.

With the cheapies, you also get a complete lack of protection circuitry - which, even with good caps, will still blow up your motherboard if a major oopsie happens. That's why i said it isn't worth recapping. Particularly not with caps pulled from another cheapie.

I know. I agree that cheap junk PSUs aren't worth fixing. I was thinking more bout PSUs such as the Corsair CX or VS, the good old Antec Smartpowers, or others which are otherwise well designed, but full of CapXon and Fuhjyyu.

I was mainly just making the point that it would be incorrect to say that a handful of caps is more expensive than a whole new PSU.

[momaka]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

(BTW yes,I know I shouldn't trust voltage detecting software like SpeedFan or the MB BIOS)

I disregard them completely. They are always way off. Takes 10 seconds to measure them with a multimeter.

However,I am thinking of replacing the secondary caps (dem small ones) with a mix of KZEs and Rubycon MBZ or Sanyo WGs (depending on what rating the crap caps have printed on them). Are those good for using in a PSU?

KZE is good and will work in *almost* all PSUs without problems.
Rubycon MBZ and Sanyo WG are a bit too low on ESR, but some PSUs will still take them. In general, I have found that the 5VSB and 3.3V rails never have issues with ultra-low ESR caps, especially the 5VSB since it's discontinuous flyback topology. The 5VSB may start whining, though.

I do have one Deer from 2001 that is partially recapped with Nichicon HZ or HN and Rubycon MFZ (equivalent to MCZ, another extremely-low ESR series meant for motherboards). The two caps I used were 6.3V 2200 uF and 6.3V 2700 uF if I remember correctly. These replaced caps on the 3.3V rail and 5V rail respectively.

So overall, I think Deer/L&C/Allied is one of those PSUs that can take motherboard grade capacitors without much issue (or at least the PSU won't oscillate and have all kinds of crazy voltages). HiPro, Bestec, and CWT units from the ISO line also have no issue with ultra-low ESR caps - in my experience anyways.

[QUOTE=Dan81;510944]P.S : L&C=Deer,right?[/qoute]
Yes, Deer = L&C = Premier = Allied = probably a few other names too. The parent company is actually called Solytech.

However, when it comes to build quality, L&C tends to be the worst. And they are usually the cheapest too (7 to 12 Euro for a "300W" to "400W" unit). Allied and Deer come with cases, and sometimes they are alright, other times not so much. But L&C is consistently bad. Premier, I don't know. Going from memory from what I've seen here on badcaps.net posts, I think it varies just the same as Deer.

It's going to work?Okay. It won't,still okay.

I think you are getting the jist of this .
Yes it will probably work. And no, it won't be stellar. But great nonetheless for educational purposes (i.e. learning how to improve PSU design and learning how the PSU works in the process).
Perhaps when you collect 3 or 4 of these Deer/L&C/Allied/Premier PSUs, you *might* (notice the use of bold and underlined here!) just have enough parts to make one sort-of "complete" unit. (i.e. if one has PI coils, and the other one has bigger capacity caps, you can take "mix-n-match" to get one PSU with all of the "right" parts).

If you are trying to get a feel for how much the quality varies, have a look here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...298#post224298
I show two Deer PSUs from the American market and three L&C units from the Easter European market.

Is there anyone that would recap this thing?

http://www.e-shop.gr/force-450w-psu-bulk-p-PER.700258

Yeah, it's a Deer/L&C.

^ That looks like the typical L&C units I'm talking about. Cheap (usually under 15 Euro) and labeled with all sorts of weird names. You can tell it's an L&C by the LC-xxxATX model number. Deer is usually DR-xxxATX.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

They're not available here. The reason I said $50 is because anything less than that is usually total junk (with the exception of a few more uncommon brands, like In Win Power Men)

Well, no. Usually it's something in the 3x0W range over here in Germany.

There are some not so good PSUs for under 50€ with more watt. Like the Thermaltake Germany series or worse.

Some examples of half way decent units for little money:
The mentioned 500W Delta from pollin, some FSP units (like Hexa 400W), some HEC units, be quiet System Power 7 and Pure Power L8 up to 400W, Antec VP Series, as welll as the rather old EA-380D Green...

So there's a lot of units under 50€ that are not total junk. They are just in the 300W, maybe 400W range...

[Dan81]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

KZE is good and will work in *almost* all PSUs without problems.
Rubycon MBZ and Sanyo WG are a bit too low on ESR, but some PSUs will still take them. In general, I have found that the 5VSB and 3.3V rails never have issues with ultra-low ESR caps, especially the 5VSB since it's discontinuous flyback topology. The 5VSB may start whining, though.

I do have one Deer from 2001 that is partially recapped with Nichicon HZ or HN and Rubycon MFZ (equivalent to MCZ, another extremely-low ESR series meant for motherboards). The two caps I used were 6.3V 2200 uF and 6.3V 2700 uF if I remember correctly. These replaced caps on the 3.3V rail and 5V rail respectively.

So overall, I think Deer/L&C/Allied is one of those PSUs that can take motherboard grade capacitors without much issue (or at least the PSU won't oscillate and have all kinds of crazy voltages). HiPro, Bestec, and CWT units from the ISO line also have no issue with ultra-low ESR caps - in my experience anyways.

Well, it's fine then. I've got a Rubycon MBZ, a Nichicon HD along with 3 UCC KY caps.

Yes, Deer = L&C = Premier = Allied = probably a few other names too. The parent company is actually called Solytech.

However, when it comes to build quality, L&C tends to be the worst. And they are usually the cheapest too (7 to 12 Euro for a "300W" to "400W" unit). Allied and Deer come with cases, and sometimes they are alright, other times not so much. But L&C is consistently bad. Premier, I don't know. Going from memory from what I've seen here on badcaps.net posts, I think it varies just the same as Deer.

Yes,maybe L&C are crap. But for a 90W TDP Northwood,I'm pretty sure it won't die. (BTW,that's going to be with 1500uf 16V KY caps)
And after all,how much power can these parts take? Here they are:

-48X CD-ROM
-80GB SATA HDD
-Floppy Drive
-FX5500 256MB
-ASRock P4M800 (IGP) motherboard with P4 12v plug

[c_hegge]

Re: Opinion about PSU (after recap)

Well, no. Usually it's something in the 3x0W range over here in Germany.

Not here.

About the cheapest readily available unit here is the VS350, and it's $45 - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...ducts_id=22269

That said, however, there's no way in the world I would dare let any PSU with CapXon caps in it within a mile of my PC.

The cheapest unit I would personally use is the Seasonic SSP-350GT for $58 - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...ducts_id=25375