Your favourite PSU OEM

[Wester547]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

Nope, it's a 20A part. I don't remember what I put back in that post, but it could be some wrong info. I just checked on that PSU recently and aside from the 20A rectifier on the 12V rail, both the 5V and 3.3V rails use MBR6045WT.

Wow, that's amazing! But from this image, it looks to me like the 3.3V rectifier is a 40A part from STMicroelectronics, since I see "morocco" and "STPS40" in the image, which to me alludes to "STPS4045CW" from Morocco (I kinda see "4045CW" in the image too, but the text could say something completely different and I could be wrong). Added to that, those 250W Hipros of the time also use 16 gauge wires for the +3.3V rail... very overbuilt...

The 200W HiPro I don't remember what it had, but I too could have jotted down the wrong info for it as I did only a brief check on the rectifiers back then. Could as well be a 16A fast recovery rectifier. I remember putting it in a P4 Willamate PC afterwards, and it was pushing out a bit of heat when the CPU was running under full load.

STPR1620CT then... I have a Newton Power 250W that has two 10A ultrafast recovery rectifiers from STMicroelectronics in parallel for the +12V rail (STPR1020CT x2, STPS3045CW for the 3.3V rail, STPS6045CW for the 5V rail) and it never gets hot, almost, ever, powering a Pentium 4 1.7 GHz Willamette after 19,000 hours and 5,500 power cycles without a single bloated Ltec since 2001, but it has very thick heatsinks and its Sunon fan blows out so much air it's almost overwhelming. It has massive torroids, too, like with the 250W Hipros.

[eccerr0r]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

DEER

J/K. I've come across a lot of Delta PSUs and all of them seem very high quality. And I do have to give thumbs up on Astec PSUs of the ones I've seen in the past though probably nowadays their efficiency isn't as high as the highest there - but reliable nonetheless.

[momaka]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

That seems more like a 250W unit. I remember your Dell Hipro 250W has a 16A part for the +12V rail by what you posted in the power supply build thread three years back yet it's rated at 14A and uses single forward topology.

Nope, it's a 20A part. I don't remember what I put back in that post, but it could be some wrong info. I just checked on that PSU recently and aside from the 20A rectifier on the 12V rail, both the 5V and 3.3V rails use MBR6045WT.

The 200W HiPro I don't remember what it had, but I too could have jotted down the wrong info for it as I did only a brief check on the rectifiers back then. Could as well be a 16A fast recovery rectifier. I remember putting it in a P4 Willamate PC afterwards, and it was pushing out a bit of heat when the CPU was running under full load.

[Wester547]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

The one I fixed had all 20A parts, except the 12V rail, which actually had a 16A fast recovery rectifier and yet the 12V rail was rated for 15A. If this was half-bridge topology, I would say that rating would be okay - maybe a bit close to the edge, but still okay. In single-forward topology, no way you'll get 15A out of a 16A rectifier (continuously, for an extended period of time, that is).

That seems more like a 250W unit. I remember your Dell Hipro 250W has a 16A part for the +12V rail by what you posted in the power supply build thread three years back yet it's rated at 14A and uses single forward topology. That being said, I don't think your Dell 250W has an ultrafast recovery rectifier there but a very good schottky known as STPS16H100CT.... that has such a high surge current and low voltage drop, and is rated at such a high temperature, that you might as well call it a 20A part, especially on that massive heatsink and being close to the fan, in the path of the airflow. You probably could get 16A from it even in forward topology. Like I said before, good cooling helps a lot. I take it the ultrafast recovery rectifier was BYQ30E-200 or STPR1620CT? BYQ30E-200 is rated for 16A @ 104*C, STPR1620CT (STMicroelectronics) for 16A @ 125*C, both have a fairly high voltage drop, though, and their thermal resistance isn't fantastic either, but you can't expect better than that from an ultrafast recovery rectifier. I doubt even in that Bestec that the 16A ultrafast is getting as hot as 100*C so it probably could do 16A even if just barely.

By comparison, my other Hipro has MBR3045PT for the +5V and +3.3V rails and MBR20100CT for the +12V rail. It uses a STP40NF03L FET to regulate the extra transformer tap the +3.3V rectifier is connected to down to +3.3V. All those schottkys are by Lite-on semiconductor. The MBR20100CT though is very close to the fan. I think its heatsink, while definitely not as good as your Hipro 250W's is probably better than the Bestec you found. Of course... that Hipro is kinda sad by comparison to what I found in my old Dell Hipro 250W whose model number is the same as yours but it's an older revision... MBR6045WT for the +5V rail, MBR4045PT (General Semiconductor) for the +3.3V rail, STPS20H100CT for the +12V rail, and like yours uses a FDP7030BL Trench FET. After 17,000 on hours and 7,000 power cycles, since 2001, not a single bloated capacitor, not even the G-Luxons or Asiacons in there look bad at all, though there are some Teapos in there as well so maybe they helped.

I believe the 200W Hipro you posted uses a 10A part for the +12V rail as well yet in forward topology the +12V rail is rated for 10A.... (that could be because it's ATX 12V v1.3 which mandates a higher rating for the +12V rail) I think it has STPR1020CT there (Liteon semiconductor?) which is an ultrafast recovery but it's very close to the fan and is also on a better heatsink, probably.... good cooling does help.

That's no excuse to overrate the 3.3V and 5V rails on the label though. This is something only cheap PSUs do, and looks like Bestec is heading down that way. Honestly, when I opened that ATX-300-12E, it looked only a few notches above a complete Deer PSU.

Yes, it's bad practice to lie about the ratings. Another note about On resistance - it seems that lower on resistance is good but it can result in more switching losses (if the switching frequency isn't good enough) unless you use a larger FET, so I guess it's also a double-edged sword.

[momaka]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

If that isn't bad enough they also use 20 gauge wires.

Yes that too.

It's confusing, though, in the Bestec ATX-300-12E repair thread LDSishere posted, it looks like they used a TO-247 30A or 40A part for the +5V rail in an earlier revision of the 12E. Unless what you saw is actually on the +12V rail? The +12V rail is somewhat close to the +5V rail in Bestecs, I believe.

The one I fixed had all 20A parts, except the 12V rail, which actually had a 16A fast recovery rectifier and yet the 12V rail was rated for 15A. If this was half-bridge topology, I would say that rating would be okay - maybe a bit close to the edge, but still okay. In single-forward topology, no way you'll get 15A out of a 16A rectifier (continuously, for an extended period of time, that is).

Last but not least, you can't really blame them for using weaker rectifiers on the +5V and +3.3V rails... modern designs should have the most power allotted to +12V.

That's no excuse to overrate the 3.3V and 5V rails on the label though. This is something only cheap PSUs do, and looks like Bestec is heading down that way. Honestly, when I opened that ATX-300-12E, it looked only a few notches above a complete Deer PSU.

I have observed exactly the opposite. CapXons fail very quickly in any unit, including Bestec. They are that bad. The only Teapo I see fail often are ones very close to coils, heatsinks, resistors, diodes, or on +5VSB, or Teapos that just get poor airflow.

+1
CapXon I often see failed, and usually no more than a few years of service. Teapo, on the other hand, I've seen in very old PSUs do just fine.

[redwire]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

I'm not sure this is the complete measure.
Example: Corsair contracts Seasonic to build 10,000 pc psu's at a certain spec then contracts a cheaper build, once their (Corsair) brand reputation is established. You can spec lifetime, thus capacitor quality and running temperature as part of the design to last warranty period.
I'm saying some OEM's will build high or med quality, whatever their customer asks for. Or maybe it's component quality vs build quality?

[turbozutek]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

Intel sure do make some garbage nowadays, hey?

[Pentium4]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

Check it out, looks like this Intel branded power supply is made by Flextronics. Unfortunately I cannot open it up and void the warranty because it is in a server for a client....

It looks very well built but the cap choice is poor....270uF 450V Elite cap on the primary, the rest are Taicon and CapXon....Taicon aren't terrible but CapXon in a server PSU? Whyyyyyy that is a low 5V rating but shouldn't matter much in this server

[Wester547]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

That's not the nominal power dissipation, it's the maximum safe power dissipation at a case temperature of 25°C. So a higher number is better.

I know. That's how much power can be safely passed off as heat, but I think that's a good thing and a bad thing... especially high power dissipation alludes that a device gets hot easily. Well, at first I thought higher dissipation was better for sure, but I say that because I noticed a number of 80+ certified PSUs in some reviews use switchers that have power dissipation rated much lower than what we're talking about here.

[Pentium4]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

I like Bestecs....I think they are easy to recap (minus the glue) most of the caps I see in them are Jamicon, and I actually see few of them ever bulging but I still replace them. A lot of Bestec's I've seen them at least pust KZE on the 5VSB. I too see more bulged caps in Hipro's even though they are built better, it seems though that Hipro's run a little hotter

[Shocker]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

...lower power dissipation as well (120W vs. 160W)...

That's not the nominal power dissipation, it's the maximum safe power dissipation at a case temperature of 25°C. So a higher number is better.

I'd attribute the survival of the Hipro to the bigger heatsinks.

[Wester547]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

Seems so indeed. The second ATX-300 I opened last week (this one was a 12E unit, Rev: D1R) had that, along with Chemicon KZE caps for the 5VSB and 12V rail. Of course, Bestec had to be cheap, so they used horribly undersized rectifiers and heat sinks. The 5V rail was the worst - label stated it was rated for 30A, but the rectifier for it was only a single 20A device. Couple this with single-transistor forward topology, and you're looking at 14A continuous (maybe 16A peak, and 20A on a good day).

ATX-300-12E? Figures... those units are built for eMachines! Talk about cheap! If that isn't bad enough they also use 20 gauge wires. Blech. But here I thought Bestec was at least an honest company. However, something else to take to consideration is the fact that the "rating" on those rectifiers are often at very high case temperatures... 100*C if not higher... they can continuously do their rating up to those temperatures... add a decent heatsink and good airflow and you may be looking at 2/3rds or even half that temperature which makes quite the difference, even in forward topology. Not to say Bestec isn't lying. If they used a TO-3P or TO-247 part, though, since it covers more of the heatsink and is closer to the benefits of the top of the heatsink I think they benefit more than TO-220 parts do from improved cooling. Their ability to conduct heat way from the package is rather better.

That being said, in forward topology, if it's a TO-220, 20A part, I don't see it as capable of any more than 17-18A. If it's a TO-3P/TO-247 part, maybe it could be closer to 21-23A. But it also depends on how close to the fan it is. My Hipro "300W", built for eMachines/Gateway, isn't much better (HP-P3527F3). The label says 32A for +5V but I only see a MBR3045PT (Lite-on semiconductor, TO-247AD/TO-3P) part there and the PSU is also single forward... have to say that's better than that Bestec, though.... maybe it could do 32A but just barely (another thing to consider is the fan revving up to compensate for increased heat output). It's confusing, though, in the Bestec ATX-300-12E repair thread LDSishere posted, it looks like they used a TO-247 30A or 40A part for the +5V rail in an earlier revision of the 12E. Unless what you saw is actually on the +12V rail? The +12V rail is somewhat close to the +5V rail in Bestecs, I believe. Last but not least, you can't really blame them for using weaker rectifiers on the +5V and +3.3V rails... modern designs should have the most power allotted to +12V.

The only Hipros and Bestecs I frequently come across are the HP-D3057F3H and the ATX-300-12Z. Both are used interchangeably in many HP and Compaq PCs. The Hipro HP-D3057F3H uses much bigger heat sinks, and seems to have the better soldering of the two, but the 300-12Z actually has beefier silicon (8A vs 7A switcher)

I actually noticed that the switcher the HP-D3057F3H uses (FQAF11N90C) has a lower on resistance than the one the Bestec ATX-300-12Z uses (STW9NK90Z) - 1.1 ohms vs. 1.3 ohms max, and lower power dissipation as well (120W vs. 160W). I think that's why the Hipro did better in your review, combined with the beefier heatsinks. I have seen some other HP-D3057F3Hs instead use a 2SK2611 part from Toshiba, and that has a much higher on resistance, 1.4 ohms (and 150W power dissipation)... funnily enough, the Hipro I spoke of earlier has that exact Bestec switcher (STW9NK90Z) as well.

The Bestec also doesn't seem to kill the caps. The Hipro usually uses Teapo caps throughout, which fail after 2-3 years (although I have been finding a few with NCC KZE lately). The Bestec uses CapXon and OST, and they usually last 5+ years without any problems, even though both of those are generally considered to be inferior to Teapo.

I have observed exactly the opposite. CapXons fail very quickly in any unit, including Bestec. They are that bad. The only Teapo I see fail often are ones very close to coils, heatsinks, resistors, diodes, or on +5VSB, or Teapos that just get poor airflow. OST.... they don't do that well but they might last a few years with good cooling. I would not expect Taiwanese capacitors to last long on +5VSB... the ripple current and the flyback and linear regulated load is just too much for them, especially without airflow, even worse than the full load of the main rails.

[c_hegge]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

The only Hipros and Bestecs I frequently come across are the HP-D3057F3H and the ATX-300-12Z. Both are used interchangeably in many HP and Compaq PCs. The Hipro HP-D3057F3H uses much bigger heat sinks, and seems to have the better soldering of the two, but the 300-12Z actually has beefier silicon (8A vs 7A switcher, 40A vs 32A 12V capacity, and 30A vs 20A 3.3V). Interestingly, though, the Hipro will do 450W on the load tester and shut down when things get too hairy. The Bestec, on the other hand, blew the switcher when I asked for 400W - 50W less than the Hipro.

The Bestec also doesn't seem to kill the caps. The Hipro usually uses Teapo caps throughout, which fail after 2-3 years (although I have been finding a few with NCC KZE lately). The Bestec uses CapXon and OST, and they usually last 5+ years without any problems, even though both of those are generally considered to be inferior to Teapo.

Overall, both are decent, but, after a recap, I'd pick the 3057F3H over the 300-12Z, mainly because it can handle a little extra power and has OPP.

[momaka]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

I like the older Hipros- they're easy to work on, with room to add "bigger" parts easily.

+1
Unlike Delta and some other brands, their older units often don't use SMD components, so they are indeed very easy to work on or repair if something does go bad. I also like their design - very simple, yet it does the job fine and lasts for a very long time.

Now, the Bestecs usually seen in HPs and other "consumer" computers, while a decent design, suffer from the glue problem! It takes longer to remove that junk than it does to recap some of them... As long as they don't have a "15V" standby, they're somewhat tolerable.

Yeah tell me about it. Had to do an older ATX-300 12Z series (Rev: CD) last week, and it all went fine until it was time to remove the caps. Whoever ASSembled that PSU at the factory must have really enjoyed their job that day jizzing the conductive glue all over the place.

Other than that, their designs are decent indeed. For the one I recapped, I had nothing but Nichicon HZ and Panasonic FL caps (used, from Xbox 360) so I used that for the recap. Not only did the PSU work fine, but the the voltages were perfectly stable and there was no hissing/wining as I thought there may be.

Not anymore. All of the ones I've seen from the last 3 years or so have had white rubbery glue, not the brown conductive glue.

Seems so indeed. The second ATX-300 I opened last week (this one was a 12E unit, Rev: D1R) had that, along with Chemicon KZE caps for the 5VSB and 12V rail. Of course, Bestec had to be cheap, so they used horribly undersized rectifiers and heat sinks. The 5V rail was the worst - label stated it was rated for 30A, but the rectifier for it was only a single 20A device. Couple this with single-transistor forward topology, and you're looking at 14A continuous (maybe 16A peak, and 20A on a good day).

[c_hegge]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

Now, the Bestecs usually seen in HPs and other "consumer" computers, while a decent design, suffer from the glue problem! It takes longer to remove that junk than it does to recap some of them... As long as they don't have a "15V" standby, they're somewhat tolerable.

Not anymore. All of the ones I've seen from the last 3 years or so have had white rubbery glue, not the brown conductive glue.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

Astec is part of Emerson Network Power (as is Artesyn, which was the product of the merger of Computer Products and Zytec). Astec has been doing power supplies since the late 70s (that I know of), and they were (are?) solid. The P/Ss for Apple II+ computers (43W, IIRC) were made by Astec.

[Heihachi_73]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

I'd have to say Delta, although I am rather impressed with my recently reactivated Seasonic SS-200HE from 1989, which I have had sitting around untouched and unusable for 15+ years, as it did not have a power button. After I grabbed an AT power button from my junk pile, I ripped off the original cables and connected the Seasonic's cables to the newly found button. Expecting magic smoke, flying caps or a tripped breaker, I connected a CD-ROM drive to the PSU, stood back and powered it up. The fan wiggled around but wouldn't spin, and the drive wouldn't open. After powering off the PSU, the fan spun until the caps drained. After three failed attempts, I went outside and grabbed a second CD-ROM drive for extra load, plugged it into another Molex connector and hit the power button. The fan came on, the drives operated perfectly, then the fan started making the dry bearing buzz and slowed up. After a couple more power-on attempts, the fan spun up to full speed without buzzing, with my multimeter showing a steady 11.39V and 5.05V through another unused Molex connector. The beast lives!

Admittedly, the primary caps are Rubycon and the secondary is all Panasonic (with the triangular Matsushita logo).

This is the PSU prior to reactivation: Post 244241

[kaboom]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

Astec used to be best until they stopped making power supplies. Now I think it's more or less a tie between Delta and Seasonic.

Anytime I've looked inside an Astec, it was beyond obvious that they knew their stuff.

I like the older Hipros- they're easy to work on, with room to add "bigger" parts easily.

Deltas are nice too. An XT clone I had years ago had 100w Delta PS, which was rather large and "conservative" for its rating.

Now, the Bestecs usually seen in HPs and other "consumer" computers, while a decent design, suffer from the glue problem! It takes longer to remove that junk than it does to recap some of them... As long as they don't have a "15V" standby, they're somewhat tolerable.

[Pentium4]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory3&reid=300

Flextronics. They hardly make power supplies for use in computers, but when they do...

The worst regulated 12V rail was looking at 0.17% regulation over a load of 1200W.

And it did that all while delivering 80plus platinum levels of efficiency.

Wow, that is indeed an incredible power supply! I hope they make some lower wattage units that would be awesome.

I voted Delta...I just love how they build their power supplies, and even their lowest end units will do the job and still be reliable. I really like FSP too but they just use too many horrible caps even in their higher end units

[370forlife]

Re: Your favourite PSU OEM

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory3&reid=300

Flextronics. They hardly make power supplies for use in computers, but when they do...

The worst regulated 12V rail was looking at 0.17% regulation over a load of 1200W.

And it did that all while delivering 80plus platinum levels of efficiency.