Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

[davmax]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Please be aware that you do not need 10V caps this can bring a larger diameter. Each power supply has 12 volt rails using 16V caps plus 5 volt and 3.3 volt for which 6.3 volt caps have been optimised. The poor quality cap manufacturers use 10 volt caps in an effort to reduce ESR. Higher quality caps can achieve even lower ESR at a 6.3 volt rating. Such caps are Rubycon (MBZ, MCZ), Panasonic (FC, FJ), Samxon (GC, GD) and others. Typically Panasonic from Farnell are a larger diameter than desired. I normally carry a reasonable quantity of Samxon GC and GD, 8 and 10mm caps, to help out local repairs at short notice. Right now I have a few available with more on order.

[yanz]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Yea, dimension of caps is one of the most important factor in recapping the psu. 6.3v capacitors are smaller than 10v caps, indeed it's not necessary to use 10v caps for 5v or 3.3v rail. This is one of the most frequently question i see when someone wants to recap a psu.

[tazwegion]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Thats funny, my Antec Truepower380 says 24amps for +12v rail...

DC Output: +5v +12v +3.3v -5v -12v +5v SB
Max: 35A 24A 28A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A
Min: 0A 0.8A 0A 0A 0A 0A

+5v, +12v and +3.3v max. load 360W

They're lying about the +12v rail? probably...

Hmmm... perhaps yours is a newer model/revision (mine was purchased in 2004), according to the specification booklet (see below) only the TruePower550 had a have a 24A 12+ line

[tazwegion]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Yea, dimension of caps is one of the most important factor in recapping the psu. 6.3v capacitors are smaller than 10v caps, indeed it's not necessary to use 10v caps for 5v or 3.3v rail. This is one of the most frequently question i see when someone wants to recap a psu.

Tis' true, but for davmax's advice I was contemplating 'shoe horning' some 13x21mm 10v Hitano's into that Antec PSU, since the recap I've completed my running in process, and figured I may as well tack the results into this post while I'm about it

My EP-8K3A+ BIOS (see attached pictures) detects the 5v line is between +4.99 ~ 5.02v, while the third party software (MBM 5.0) informs me it's stable @ +5.0v, for those of you not interested in approximated BIOS dependant readings, my multimeter displayed +5.13 ~ 5.14v during & after loading with F@H & 3Dmark2001, pretty much the same as I was getting just after the recap

More than ample IMHO to power the AthlonXP 2100+ & GeForce2 MX400 attached, and it's intended RAID array

[freax]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

whats up with the ?
i still recap 3-4 bp6 a month here.
folks will give them up when you pry them from their cold dead hands it seems.

Its been worked hard over the years and is over due for a recap but this would be my first recapping of a motherboard and I paid $150 for it 2-3 years ago (With CPU's/HS&F)

[freax]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Hmmm... perhaps yours is a newer model/revision (mine was purchased in 2004), according to the specification booklet (see below) only the TruePower550 had a have a 24A 12+ line

Yes, I just found my receipt and I had bought it in /early/ 2005, not 2003..

AFTER I had broken the warranty..

However Antec most likely would have not honoured the warranty because I had worked it almost constantly, although very mildly, the PC was idle during that time, even so, if it were still under warranty, the cost of shipment of the PSU would exceed the cost of replacement of capacitors.

Maybe thats a way people can get the manufacturer, CWT, to use better quality capacitors in the units they give to Antec, leave 'em on for 24/7? and when the 4.5v bus goes out of tolerance, claim for warranty?

I would gladly pay $10 more if it mean't that I had Panasonic FM or FC's in there!

[freax]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Please be aware that you do not need 10V caps this can bring a larger diameter. Each power supply has 12 volt rails using 16V caps plus 5 volt and 3.3 volt for which 6.3 volt caps have been optimised. The poor quality cap manufacturers use 10 volt caps in an effort to reduce ESR. Higher quality caps can achieve even lower ESR at a 6.3 volt rating. Such caps are Rubycon (MBZ, MCZ), Panasonic (FC, FJ), Samxon (GC, GD) and others. Typically Panasonic from Farnell are a larger diameter than desired. I normally carry a reasonable quantity of Samxon GC and GD, 8 and 10mm caps, to help out local repairs at short notice. Right now I have a few available with more on order.

I was going to whack a heap of Panasonic FM's in there on the advice from a friend in Germany, they're 12.5mm in diameter and I would have to raise them from the PCB, bunch 'em up with cable ties and then solder wires from them to the mainboard, insulating it all of course with heatshrink.

Theres one thing that I've noticed with these Fuhjyyu caps, that is that you cannot match the capacitance and diameter ratings of the original ones unless you sacrifice endurance and consequently give them a lifetime of about a year, which makes you wonder, the problem isn't really the quality of the capacitor, its the design of the power supply itself, the cable bundle is too close to the capacitors and this is preventing the use of wider caps..

So I figured, why not go for the Panasonic FM and pull 'em off board..

Seeing this power supply is going inside a case with ample room, I can put the 92mm fan on the /outside/ and add some more screws for the finger guard, doing this should give me heaps more room for the capacitors I would like aswell as put them directly infront of the 92mm fan, however seeing the 92mm fan is farther away from the heatsinks, I'm thinking if stepping up the speed of the 92mm fan, or just replacing it completely with a Sunon fan and running it on a Zalman fan controller.

What do you guys think?

[freax]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

I would recommend part number's P12347-ND and P12373-ND on digikey...
These are both 12.5mm in diameter..

4x Panasonic FM 4700uF 6.3v (7000 hours) for 5v and 3.3v bus..
2x Panasonic FM 3300uF 16v (7000 hours) for 12v bus..

You cannot fit 12.5mm capacitors in the Antec Truepower 380 near the mainboard, the DC cables aswell as a couple of chokes are in the road.

[freax]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Hmm, 7000 hours at 105deg centigrade, times 7000 by 5, to give it an operating temperature of lets say, 65 degrees centigrade and you've got 4 years, run 'em cooler at 40 degrees and you've got 5.2 years.

Can you say 3 year warranty now?

[gonzo0815]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

I personally have no problems in using some not very high endurance caps in psu`S. I have just used some Rubycon MCZ and UCC KZG in psu`s, as htey all are availiable in 3300uF /6,3v 10mm.
The 10mm diameter is very common on many PSU`S. Calculating the theoreticall lifespann of those caps @45°C give you about 128000h, or about 14 years of 24/7 use. So if this will not suite you, you can expect that due to their superior specs, they have even more room for degrading untill the ripple current would leave the spec.

Am i right with my caluclation? the liespann would double with every 10°C lower ambient.

[freax]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

I personally have no problems in using some not very high endurance caps in psu`S. I have just used some Rubycon MCZ and UCC KZG in psu`s, as htey all are availiable in 3300uF /6,3v 10mm.
The 10mm diameter is very common on many PSU`S. Calculating the theoreticall lifespann of those caps @45°C give you about 128000h, or about 14 years of 24/7 use. So if this will not suite you, you can expect that due to their superior specs, they have even more room for degrading untill the ripple current would leave the spec.

Am i right with my caluclation? the liespann would double with every 10°C lower ambient.

I thought it was lifetime at rated temperature /times/ how many 10 degrees centigrade you are taking off..

For example:

For a 105deg rated 2000 hour capacitor, you remove 65 degrees to run it at 40 degrees ambient, now that makes the multiplier 6.5 times, the originally rated lifetime at 105 degrees is 2000 hours, now you times that by 6.5 and you only get 13,000 hours, or roughly 1.5 years.

http://experts.about.com/e/s/se/Service_life.htm

But with a 105deg, 7000 hour capacitor, the lifetime at 40 degrees increases to 45500 hours, or 5.2 years at constant duty.

So I'm assuming that provided all the other caps and the Nippon Input caps hold up, I could run this PSU for 5 years..

I'm assuming that the reason why you find 30 year old equipment still going strong is both because of the high quality capacitors with long lifetimes aswell as the lower-duty of olden days, we didn't expect as much runtime in the past as we do today.

[freax]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Another thing that troubles me is that every capacitor other than the Rubycon's on the input side are Fuhjyyu brand, it would be well worth it in my opinion to replace them all, most of them are nearby heatsinks...

[gonzo0815]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Those Fuhjyyu are crap, i won`t bother to replace them all, regardless where thy are located.

I am not shure, but ive read about that the liftime of the cap should doubled with every decrease in ambient temperature of 10°C.
It is given in the technote from Rubycon :



The formular for an MCZ is like this: actuall lifetime=lifetime @max temp *2^((max temp-actuall temp)/10°).
The result is: 128000h=2000h*2^6=2000*2*2*2*2*2*2
This is somwhat very different than 6*2000h.
This is the simple equiation, as i don`t know the self heating vallues etc. But for me it seems to be pretty mutch clear, that thos caps will last a very long life in a normaly ventilated psu. As i don`t know if that law will cover sucht long times, anf for the very rough formula, i think it should last 5 to 10 years, wich is fine to me.

Those very long life caps are IMHO only needed, if the temperature is close to the rated one. Then it makes sense to increase the endurance, as you won`t get mutch from the derating formula. E.g. at 80°c or 100°c the lifespann of MCZ won`t increase enough to be on the safe side.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Forget to mention my assumptions:

ambient temp in psu: 45°C (rougly none of my FSP, Amacrox, Enermax or Seasonic units are getting hotter, if some case cooling is applied)

Values of MCZ: 105°c , 2000h lifetime at full ripple.

[tazwegion]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Another thing that troubles me is that every capacitor other than the Rubycon's on the input side are Fuhjyyu brand, it would be well worth it in my opinion to replace them all, most of them are nearby heatsinks...

When you say input... do you mean the large cans' on the 240v input side of the PSU pcb? I would've thought they'd be Rubycons on yours too?

While you've got the Antec dismantled, you may as well pull the other Fuhjyuu's too save you having to fix them later (less down time), that's how I rationalised it anyways... a cactus OS due to data corruption related to a flaky PSU capacitor is far more work IMHO

Plus, I just live to solder!

[freax]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

They are, sorry I misworded that sentence..

I have rubycons on the input side..

[Tejaus]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

This is my first post on this site which I found after my TruPOS 380 bit the dust.

I too have an Antec Truepower 380 that let the smoke out the first time I turned in on. I purchased a Sonata case about two years ago because it was cheap after rebate. Well this weekend I finally built a new C2D computer in the Antec case. Nothing fancy, just a Fry's E6300/ ECS combo deal using the intergrated video, sound, LAN, etc. So I get it built and double check everything. Fired it up and it instantly spewed out a foul cloud of electrolyte thru the fan exhaust. Nice.

Fortunately I quickly grabbed the power cord and yanked it out before it fried anything. I then find this site doing a search on Google and it looks like this is a common problem with this PSU. It's a shame that Antec's PSU quality has gone south. My old computer is in an ancient Antec tower and Antec 300 w PSU thats been purring along since 98', sometimes 24/7. The Sonata case however is very nice. I just wish I could say the same about the PSU.

Has anyone had any luck getting Antec to make good on replacements that don't blow up? If not there's a suplus parts house here in Austin that I might check for caps. BTW, I replaced the PSU unit with an Ultra 500w Infinity. Do I need to keep an eye on this one too?

[chow]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Does anyone know if there was a manufacturing date after which Antec addressed this? Or are all the power supplies of this type suspect?
Thanks

[jonnyGURU]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

Does anyone know if there was a manufacturing date after which Antec addressed this? Or are all the power supplies of this type suspect?
Thanks

They never "addressed" this to my knowledge.

All CWT built Antecs have Fuhjyyu's in them.

[chow]

Re: Antec TruePower380 & the Fuhjyyu Syndrome

So essentially, assuming my time's worth, say $70 an hour, by the time I've sourced suitable replacement caps and installed them into a unit with aged components, in reality I'm actually further ahead to simply buy a new p/s and exclude Antec from consideration.