when big brands have crap caps

[EIBM]

I've been in a bit of a pickle. Some of my older PSUs (like a 145watt acbel I have) use rubycons, and all that good stuff.
But there have been some models that go as low as TEAPO, Licon, capxon, and others. And it's been bothering me.

A few notable brands to use these aforementioned crap caps are:
--> acbel
--> zippy
--> delta

(Now I really wish I kept my LITEON and sparkle PSUs).

Does anyone have info regarding why... these manufacturers would randomly do that?

[c_hegge]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

They do it because they are cheaper, and so they can sell you a new PSU in a few years time when the cheap caps fail. I'm not saying I agree with it, though.

[EIBM]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

Well asides from the profit aspect; it poses a fire hazard, could potentially damage sensitive/expensive electronics, and clean power is always important.

Boy was my day ever ruined to find some TEAPOs in an acbel.

[Pentium4]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

Probably because they last just long enough to go past the warranty

[japlytic]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

They shouldn't have messed with success with quality electrolytic capacitors!

[Pentium4]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

I agree...because most people that buy OEM systems never touch them...which includes not cleaning them. And in good conditions Teapo and CapXon can last a while but when they get hot because of dust build up, they are not going to last long...

[EIBM]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

I agree...because most people that buy OEM systems never touch them...which includes not cleaning them. And in good conditions Teapo and CapXon can last a while but when they get hot because of dust build up, they are not going to last long...

TEAPOs, evercons, licons, OSTs, etc... are a firehazard. They should NOT be used in PSUs. Yet all the newest ones I've seen are plagued with them.

Here's a recent example I came across: Zalman's trashy 3rd party PSUs, look at all of those TEAPOs! I'm not buying a Zalman PSU, that's for sure.

[Pentium4]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

I'm surprised you didn't mention Fuhjyyu. I would MUCH rather have Teapo or OST than Fuhjyyu, but I think Evercon is as bad if not worse than Fuhjyyu

[lti]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

TEAPOs, evercons, licons, OSTs, etc... are a firehazard.

How are they a fire hazard?

Hipro almost always uses crappy caps. My computer's Hipro power supply has Teapo, G-Luxon, and Su'scon caps in it. That power supply is 13 years old and hasn't needed to be recapped yet.

[dmill89]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

TEAPOs, evercons, licons, OSTs, etc... are a firehazard. They should NOT be used in PSUs. Yet all the newest ones I've seen are plagued with them.

Here's a recent example I came across: Zalman's trashy 3rd party PSUs, look at all of those TEAPOs! I'm not buying a Zalman PSU, that's for sure.

I would stop short of calling PSUs from respected manufactures (Delta, Zippy, AcBel, Enhance, SeaSonic,etc.) with mediocre caps Fire Hazards. In a well designed PSU the unit will fail to turn on or shut itself down long before it degrades to the point of being a fire hazard. It is mainly poor quality units from subpar manufactures (L&C, ATNG, Sunpro, etc.)that have the potential to become fire hazards, many of these units lack the protection circuitry to shut them down safely or prevent them from turning on when they cannot operate safely.

Now that being said mediocre (Teapo, Ltec, OST, etc.) and poor quality (Fuhjyyu, JunFU, Canicon, etc.) caps will generally reduce the life expectancy of a PSU so it is always best to get a unit with top quality electrolytics if possible. It is also worth noting that mediocre caps in a well designed PSU can still last a long time if not as long as top quality caps. It is common to find Deltas with Ltecs, AcBels with Ltecs, Enhances with Teapos, LiteOns with OSTs, and SeaSonics with OSTs or SuScons that are 5+ years old and still in good working condition with no failed caps due to their design which does not stress the caps the way that a poorly designed off-brand unit does. Again a good brand with top quality caps is the best bet, although a good brand with mediocre caps can last long enough for the average user on a budget (remember many people only keep a computer for 3-5 years) especially if replacing and OEM unit that has failed or needs to be upgraded part way through a computer's life. For a high end system definitely stick to units that have top quality Japanese caps.

[Wester547]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

I would stop short of calling PSUs from respected manufactures (Delta, Zippy, AcBel, Enhance, SeaSonic,etc.) with mediocre caps Fire Hazards. In a well designed PSU the unit will fail to turn on or shut itself down long before it degrades to the point of being a fire hazard. It is mainly poor quality units from subpar manufactures (L&C, ATNG, Sunpro, etc.)that have the potential to become fire hazards, many of these units lack the protection circuitry to shut them down safely or prevent them from turning on when they cannot operate safely.

Not to be in disagreeance with your talking point, but can't a capacitor on the 5vsb rail sent a power spike to the motherboard if failing high rather than low, or isn't that something protection circuitry can't necessarily predict (unless I'm mistaken, such as in the case of the Bestec 12-ZE series, though I know that Bestecs don't have OPP)? Not sure if that necessarily qualifies for a 'fire hazard', either, just curious.

And honestly, if it bothers one so much that any brand of power supplies use shoddy capacitors, recap them. Well designed PSUs are not worth throwing away just because they have cheap capacitors. They merit recapping, in my eyes. And I don't think "Teapo" is truly low. Mediocre at best, of course. But not truly low, in my view. On a motherboard, perhaps that holds so, capacitors are stressed more there, but not necessarily in a well made PSU. I also could have sworn that Liteon are not exonerated from using subpar capacitors in some cases, in some of their PSUs. And Sparkle sometimes (to my knowledge) rebrand FSP power supplies, who also aren't renowned for using fantastic capacitors.

[370forlife]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

The bestec 250-12Z does not use a two transistor 5vsb circuit and has over voltage protection on the 5vsb (most quality units use this method of generating the 5vsb). I believe you are thinking of the Bestec 250-12E, that one uses a 2 transistor 5vsb circuit that has a critical 50v, 47uf cap that when fails, can cause huge overvoltage. All bestecs do feature Over Power Protection though, as do almost all quality units that don't feature Over Current Protection, and even a lot of crappy manufacturers have Over Power Protection (Sunpro, Longyi, Keerda, KK Power, Tombuilt Electronics, etc...)

[EIBM]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

I would stop short of calling PSUs from respected manufactures (Delta, Zippy, AcBel, Enhance, SeaSonic,etc.) with mediocre caps Fire Hazards. In a well designed PSU the unit will fail to turn on or shut itself down long before it degrades to the point of being a fire hazard. It is mainly poor quality units from subpar manufactures (L&C, ATNG, Sunpro, etc.)that have the potential to become fire hazards, many of these units lack the protection circuitry to shut them down safely or prevent them from turning on when they cannot operate safely.

Now that being said mediocre (Teapo, Ltec, OST, etc.) and poor quality (Fuhjyyu, JunFU, Canicon, etc.) caps will generally reduce the life expectancy of a PSU so it is always best to get a unit with top quality electrolytics if possible. It is also worth noting that mediocre caps in a well designed PSU can still last a long time if not as long as top quality caps. It is common to find Deltas with Ltecs, AcBels with Ltecs, Enhances with Teapos, LiteOns with OSTs, and SeaSonics with OSTs or SuScons that are 5+ years old and still in good working condition with no failed caps due to their design which does not stress the caps the way that a poorly designed off-brand unit does. Again a good brand with top quality caps is the best bet, although a good brand with mediocre caps can last long enough for the average user on a budget (remember many people only keep a computer for 3-5 years) especially if replacing and OEM unit that has failed or needs to be upgraded part way through a computer's life. For a high end system definitely stick to units that have top quality Japanese caps.

I actually do own high quality deltas & acbels (which use rubycon, nichicon, and chemicon). And they are just fantastic!
I was just surprised to find an mATX acbel pulled from a netvista to have awful construction and caps (even other consumer acbels I looked at used bad caps, much like all the other sub-par manufacturers). And this was the issue I was getting at.
Also, a PSU *should* last five years: that's insanely young!
I have computers and electronics that are way past 20 years old, and their PSUs are fine.

I'm not going to be easy with zippy, they love evercon caps. Cheap rubbish. It doesn't matter if the design is good, the parts chosen are low quality.

[mcdaydavies]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

Same story for FSP aswell

[Heihachi_73]

Re: when big brands have crap caps

Yeah, my Acer T310 desktop had a 200W FSP power supply which was entirely full of Teapo caps, but this machine ran for 6.5 years basically 24/7 (although it isn't used for resource-heavy programs like folding, it is used frequently for game emulators such as MAME, and the GTA3 series as well).

I'm not sure which cap failed first, or whether it was the burnt glue I spotted over 3-4 resistors, which also might have caused a a possible short (there was a very shiny looking 1uF 50V cap next to them as well; whether it had actually leaked or was merely covered in a light mist of silicone glue I don't know - small caps generally don't have vents). Going by the PSU's case, there are two burn marks around resistors which are covered in heat-shrink plastic, most likely these simply got burnt due to the failed caps though. Other than that, not one of the bulging caps leaked or exploded, the PSU simply could no longer boot the PC when I had to do a power cycle on the machine (to test a SCSI card).

Either way, the Teapos lasted longer than the machine's typical lifetime, and didn't take out my PC either, from which I'm still typing. In that aspect, I would probably have to say Taiwanese caps are probably much better than the junk from China (PRC), although of course no match to genuine Japanese items. Although, Fuhjyyu/OST/GSC/Chhsi caps are most certainly known for failing. Most likely it's just a case of planned obsolescence these days - the companies probably could make decent/top-end components but it would decrease profits immensely, even if they did become a high-end manufacturer. So they just sit on the low/mid range market because it suits them. I'm pretty sure a few companies would have taken a few Rubycons apart by now to see what's inside, there's no way they could be oblivious to the difference in the electrolyte formula after 10 years have passed.