MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

[rxyzm]

I am working on MSI GL63 that also has 16P51 (Rev 1, I think) board.

This is gaming laptop.

Last few weeks, I have been noticing following symptoms -

1. When the laptop is switched on, the power button shows blue light for a long time. The machine may or may not boot after the time. (Usually, when the power switch is pressed, it would show blue light for couple of seconds. After that, the keyboard LEDs (RED Color) turn on and the power switch shows red light, machine boots)

2. The laptop may try to boot by doing power cycling 3, 4, 5, 6... times. However, no guarantees that machine will boot and even if it boots, the laptop turns of anytime and goes back to the blue light start sequence in Point 1.

I am wondering what the reason could be. Since machine boots, almost normally or after an undefined delay, my thought is the power rail controllers are affected.

I am of the opinion that the problem could be in capacitors in the Time delay circuits in power sections that are used to ensure power rail stabilization before key parts (CPU, GPU etc.) get powered. However, I am going to start on this machine and have no evidence to support this thought.

Other possibility is key controller chips (+3 and +5 volts) that switch on the control voltages, failing intermittently. Again, a thought but no specific evidence.

However, what I would like to know from esteemed knowledgeable people here is, whether they have faced such situation? If yes, what caused it. This would certainly help me in building my action plan.



Warm Regards,

[mon2]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

Hi.

1) link or post a schematic, if available.

2) remove all power. No battery. Check the resistance to ground of each inductor. The reason is that each inductor is linked to a local switching power supply. There may be a leaky capacitor on the rail causing an excessive current draw which is raising this fault.

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

Hi.

1) link or post a schematic, if available.

2) remove all power. No battery. Check the resistance to ground of each inductor. The reason is that each inductor is linked to a local switching power supply. There may be a leaky capacitor on the rail causing an excessive current draw which is raising this fault.

=====

Thank you for the tip. I would be using it as first method of trouble shooting anyways.

Schematic - Will post a schematic here shortly.

Warm Regards,

[mcplslg123]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

Check whether RTC battery is 3V or not. When RTC battery is low, this system will boot after restarting 3-5 times.

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

Check whether RTC battery is 3V or not. When RTC battery is low, this system will boot after restarting 3-5 times.

=====

Thank you for the pointer. Will check that too.

Warm Regards,

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

Have found another thing.

When the laptop shows blue light with no activity, the Cooling fans start to spin.

I know it's sign of alive CPU in Apple machines. That's the case here too?

Warm Regards,

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

[QUOTE]

1. When the laptop is switched on, the power button shows blue light for a long time. The machine may or may not boot after the time. (Usually, when the power switch is pressed, it would show blue light for couple of seconds. After that, the keyboard LEDs (RED Color) turn on and the power switch shows red light, machine boots)

2. The laptop may try to boot by doing power cycling 3, 4, 5, 6... times. However, no guarantees that machine will boot and even if it boots, the laptop turns of anytime and goes back to the blue light start sequence in Point 1.

[\Quote]

Have found another thing.

while the laptop shows blue light with no activity as mentioned in Pt. 1 (Quoted), the Cooling fans start to spin.

I know it's sign of alive CPU in Apple machines. That's the case here too?

Warm Regards,

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

I am looking for ENE9028 chip datasheet. This is major controller in all the power circuits and all key power (SUS, Good) signals are generated from this chip.

For ENE9012 the data sheet is available. For ENE9028, I hunted up and down, but could not find one.

If anyone here can provide some info on ENE9028 that would be a great help.

Warm Regards,

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

Hi.

1) link or post a schematic, if available.

2) remove all power. No battery. Check the resistance to ground of each inductor. The reason is that each inductor is linked to a local switching power supply. There may be a leaky capacitor on the rail causing an excessive current draw which is raising this fault.

=====

Checked as suggested.

It appears that NVVDD supply is shorted to ground (0.4 Ohms Reading).

The attached PDF contains the screenshot of board schematic, the inductor identifiers (They are labeled on the board as Choke3, Choke4 etc.).

C927 (330 uf) also shows short to ground. When checked in schematic, the NVVDD supply line is full of capacitors as it appears to be common rail for Individual parts of GPU and CPU.

There are Cap nets around each of the big 330 uf with values ranging from 47uf to 0.1uf.

Seems like a big task ahead because many of the low value caps are under the GPU and CPU ICs.

Will trudge along and try to figure what could be wrong here.

With a probable short on NVVDD line, what beats me is why the machine intermittently works.

Will keep my posts updated as I move further.

[mon2]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

Do you have an adjustable power supply?

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

Do you have an adjustable power supply?

=====

Yes, I do.

And I am also thinking about using Voltage Injection method. But, not sure whether I should use 1 volt/X amps or lower than 1 volt.

Being into CPU power phases and GPU Power phases area, not sure about what would be a good voltage for injection method, since CPU and GPU now a days' work on 1 volt or less PD.

Also, unfortunately, both CPU and GPU are soldered to the board, thus opening another possibility for hairline (Or dry solder) solder cracks in BGA footprint.

Warm Regards,

[mon2]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

We use 0v8 for injection with our TS-30A short killer tool.

Try this voltage and see who heats up.

[mcplslg123]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

If its a gaming board resistance of 0.4 Ohms may not be short on NVVDD line.

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

If its a gaming board resistance of 0.4 Ohms may not be short on NVVDD line.

=====

This is a Gaming Laptop albeit of lower end of spectrum.

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

We use 0v8 for injection with our TS-30A short killer tool.

Try this voltage and see who heats up.

Will do and will put my comments here.

[Sephir0th]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

I still Don't fully understand the condition of the device. So are there still moments where the device is fully working, with picture, or not?

Regards

[piernov]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

As always less than 1 ohm to ground on GPU VCore for Nvidia 1000 series and newer is normal.

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

I still Don't fully understand the condition of the device. So are there still moments where the device is fully working, with picture, or not?

Regards

Recapping here -

- The laptop started showing the behavior - Press Power on switch; get the blue light with NO BOOT (we used to hold down power button till the Blue LED turns off in such condition).

- Wait for some time; press the power on button again, the laptop may boot as a normal machine would. However, the machine would suddenly crash and show "Blue LED". Then the power switch press - Blue Light routine would start again...

After few such incidents about 6 months ago, the machine started well and kept on working till about 2 weeks ago.

2 weeks ago the machine started acting up again. The power switch press - Blue light - routine started.

But, this time time there was a small variation. Couple of times, the machine booted w/o any video output (Dark screen). However, in 1 or 2 more attempts , the machine would start again.

Have not tested the board in last 3 - 4 days as it is open on the table.

Warm Regards.

[rxyzm]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

As always less than 1 ohm to ground on GPU VCore for Nvidia 1000 series and newer is normal.

=====

Any idea Why the nVidia Chips show such low resistance?

Warm Regards,

[mon2]

Re: MSI GL63 (Board 16P51, Rev 1) Laptop - Boot Problem

Any idea Why the nVidia Chips show such low resistance?

It is by design and the process used by their semiconductor.