Yet another BGA machine dream

[sparker1]

I am going to finally lash out and buy one of these machines. It will be at the cheaper end of the scale. Has anyone had any experience with this machine - LY M770 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-...822885797.html
I thought it might be a little better than the ACHI IR6500 as they get a bad report for low bottom heat power. I'd like to get the scotle IR6000 but it's just a tad more than I want to pay. Any thoughts?

[ktmmotocross]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

total cheap crap. u can do it yourself way cheaper

http://www.ebay.com/itm/80-80mm-450W...item4ad90286e4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jovy-RE-8500...item2339aee160

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Output-24V-3...item1c43cbd219

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Controller-T...item338dd62a9a

[dellxps15]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

i agree. those machine are cheap. and keep in mind that after buy a good bga machine, ull need 5-6 months of practice and excersise to get first success.

add also more money to extra component (flux, bga ball wave, stencil etc etc )for another 700€extra.

[sparker1]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

Well....that's a bit of a downer. I already had my wallet out. I appreciate the advice though. Th3 Uniqu3 gave me good advice here too, https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...ghlight=unique. Basically, saying the same i.e. that it can be done simply without buying pre-made equipment.

[senchire]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

As many told you please for your own sake and nerves don't go cheap on them (learned by heart).
Want cheap? HR (Atten or Ayoue) + PH (T-8280) and rest of equipment
if you want to invest more money get some proper machine, but never go cheap in this business on equipment.
Few months ago I worked on a dv9000 (because I didn't invest in a proper nozzle but had a self made from scraps) I killed the GPU (np order new one and its fixed but sometimes you can't just order a new one).

[Beowulf]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

Without the right equipment all you're gonna be doing is a temporary fix, and for this, you dont need any equipment, you can start by borrowing your wife/sister 's hair dryer.
If you wanna do real repairs, then you better save until you have about $1200 and get a Honton.
I get my things from this store www.advancedreworks.com. They're on ebay too but you can get a better deal if you just contact him outside of ebay.

[ravi_1617]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

go to www.bgamods.com

[senchire]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

With all the respect college 1200$ isn't the sum which you need to do proper Reball and Reflow (and any SMD replacement).

[sparker1]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

I've done a lot of research and reading, including bgamods.com. Some people seem to manage with cheap ACHI6000"s or home made simple stuff coddled together and so on but long term maybe their repairs are not viable; it's hard to tell. Some guys on this forum recommend making your own equipment from scratch and others keep advising to go up market on more expensive manufactured machines. I am leaning towards buying an existing machine - a scotle IR6000 (Scotle now own ACHI as well). That machine is an upgraded ACHI and Scotle seem to have a good reputation. I could try and build my own but I think I would just give myself more headaches getting it to work properly. I would hate to go through all the trouble of reballing half a dozen motherboards just to find out later that the repairs were only temporary. That would be the worst outcome for everybody and I can do that already with my hot air station. Since it is only a hobby I can't spend much but I don't want to waste what I have saved up either. I want to enjoy the work too. All in all if I have to spend more time learning on a crap machine that will be part of the price I pay for going cheap. From what I am told the machine should be able to do the job but will need lots of finesse and maybe an upgrade to some components. I have the time to learn so that is part of the reason for a low cost machine. Thanks guys for all your thoughts. I think I'll give it a go.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

Umm, i'm sure another skilled member could chime in this topic as well, but here's my own observations...

0) Know your tools. Practice on scrap boards, and only when you're confident you're doing the right thing, then move on to clients' boards.

1) There's no such thing as a reballing that's only temporary. It can be only done one way: RIGHT. There's bad chips, there's bad boards and there's bad materials (flux, braid and so on). Kingbo, genuine Amtech UV and Insat are all good fluxes. All reballing work can be inspected by just the naked eye or at the most a 4x magnifier, before you solder the chip back on. Any imperfection will surely be caught if you look carefully.

I haven't had ONE board i reballed come back yet, and i've been doing this for 2+ years... I admit i'm not doing the volume of repairs that other reballers do, but if you went to my place and saw my tools you'd be laughing your ass off. Yet i continue to produce repeatable results time and time again.... And that's because i replace a chip when a chip replacement is needed. *cough* nvidia *cough*

2) Timing is everything. You keep that chip 5 seconds more than you should to at temperature X and it popcorns and dies. *ROUGH GUIDELINE* Do your best to NOT keep any chip above 220C for more than 20 seconds. That is more than enough for a lead-free reflow or for lifting a chip soldered down with lead-free balls. Any more than that and the chip runs chances of dying.

[senchire]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

^ Agree on that. Doing this 1+ year (well on a cheap setup T-8280 and Best 898D+ (china's design but with a 90W solder iron makes it super), after 15-25 boards, no more corning and pad pulling.
I am planing to advance later on, but with my current number of reworks I just don't see a reason for buying some expensive machine. Success rate is 100% (if I change the chip for a new one), while when I rework the old one depends on the chip and my mood.

[diif]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

I have recently bought a Scotle IR PRO after lots of reading and research, but as recommended i upgraded the top heater with an Elstein.

[sparker1]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

The last 3 posts are encouraging for me. I have bought te scotle IR6000 and the learning process will start as soon as it arrives. I've got 3 boards to start testing on and I will scratch around for some more. I'm going to have fun!

[diif]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

I'm sure you've done plenty of research but i found this video that shows how to set a profile. I have yet to play with my IR station but i shall be following this when i get a chance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz5FDDwd86Q

[sparker1]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

Thanks Diff. I hadn't seen that one.

[sopik78]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

All depends on your budget. When you bought something like ACHI IR6000, IR 6500, Scotle IR 6000, you should know that these are more likely for training and understaning how it works. Not for serious repairs with long term. You need to find your own profiles that will work, IR heaters have big dissipation of temperatures that should cause popcorning, reworkstation itself is not very user friendly etc. Finally you will buy some advanced hot-air station and you will see the huge difference in handling and reworking boards.
I use my old ACHI IR6500 just for reballing chip itself, for unsoldering, soldering and sometimes reflow I have Honton HT-R 390 like this one and I am very happy.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

First things first, when you get the station, you need to do the following tests.

1) Put a piece of paper on top of a blank copper PCB, on the work area, and run a normal profile for leaded solder (210C max). After it's done, remove the paper and look at it. If it's browned evenly - you're lucky. If it's uneven, you need to keep in mind where the hot spot is and work around it if you can. Alternatively, crank up the temperature on the bottom and have the top heater as far as possible from the board - just enough to let you do your work, no closer.

2) Compare the temperatures reported by the machine with a regular thermometer probe (or the temperature probe of your multimeter). They should be at most 5C out. If it's any worse, resolve that before starting to use the machine.

[sparker1]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

First things first, when you get the station, you need to do the following tests.

1) Put a piece of paper on top of a blank copper PCB, on the work area, and run a normal profile for leaded solder (210C max). After it's done, remove the paper and look at it. If it's browned evenly - you're lucky. If it's uneven, you need to keep in mind where the hot spot is and work around it if you can. Alternatively, crank up the temperature on the bottom and have the top heater as far as possible from the board - just enough to let you do your work, no closer.

2) Compare the temperatures reported by the machine with a regular thermometer probe (or the temperature probe of your multimeter). They should be at most 5C out. If it's any worse, resolve that before starting to use the machine.

Excellent advice to help get me started. The Scotle is on the way or so I am told. If it is uneven would a better quality heater make a difference?

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

Yes. Many owners of these stations have improved their success rate by upgrading the top heater element with an Elstein.

[dellxps15]

Re: Yet another BGA machine dream

for leaded i go max at 205°. 225 for lead free.

edit: about extra money, keep in mind i made my third china order (about 500 dollar each) of bga and small component, so to the bga station cost add always the double for extra.

me too will go with elstein when i get some good pay back from the work i do