Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

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  • momaka
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    For Rubycon MFZ (6.3V, 2700 uF, 10 mm dia.) & Nichicon HZ (6.3V, 2200 uF, 10 mm dia.):
    ** Rubycon ZLG 6.3V 2200 uF
    ** Panasonic FM 6.3V 2200 uF
    ** Panasonic FR 6.3V 2700 uF
    ** Nichicon HW 6.3V 2200 uF
    ** Nichicon HV 6.3V 2700 uF
    ** Rubycon ZLH 6.3V 2700 uF
    ** United Chemicon KZH 6.3V 2700 uF
    ** United Chemicon KZM 6.3V 2700 uF
    ** Rubycon ZLS 10V 2200 uF
    ** Rubycon ZLQ 6.3V 3900 uF

    Rubycon ZLH 6.3V 2200 uF will probably also work OK and can be found in stock here:
    https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...products_id=33

    Alternatively, you could also use polymers.
    The cheapest alternative: Kemet A750MU228M0GAAE007
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/...AE007/13676488
    -or-
    Very reliable, but also expensive: Nichichon PLG series, P/N: PLG0G272MDO1TD
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/...MDO1TD/5180933
    -or-
    Good balance between price and known good quality polymers: Nichicon RR5 series P/N: RR50E152MDN1 (2.5V 1500 uF)
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/...52MDN1/2207226

    What I would do if I were to recap one: do a mix with half-polymers and half-electrolytics - i.e. probably the Nichicon RR5 (2.5V 1500 uF) with some Rubycon ZLQ 6.3V 3900 uF. The high capacitance of the ZLQ combined with the low ESR of the RR5 will be about as close as you can get to what was there originally.

    And for Rubycon MCZ (16V, 1500 uF, 10 mm dia.) & Nichicon HN (16V, 1500 uF, 10 mm dia.) - these shouldn't be failed. If they are, someone likely baked the board before you or did the "towel trick"... which may have hosed the board already. But in any case, if you do need to replace these as well, you can use the same brands and series listed above for the 6.3V 2200/2700 uF caps - just choose 16V 1500 uF caps instead (though 1200 uF and 1800 uF will also work.) Many of these should be available on Digikey and Mouser. Here are two such examples from badcaps.net store:

    Rubycon ZLG, 16V, 1200 uF, 10x20 mm:
    https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...nlmu0s11rha3q1

    Rubycon ZLH, 16V, 1500 uF, 10x20 mm:
    https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...nlmu0s11rha3q1
    Last edited by momaka; 02-08-2022, 12:57 AM.

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  • PetersburgFix
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Originally posted by momaka
    I sectioned these for you, so you can understand what each cap does

    Stand-by 1.8V rail (generated from 3.3V stand-by)
    - C5B4 - Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF, 5x11 mm (dia. x h)

    Stand-by 3.3V rail (generated from 5VSB)
    - C5B2 - Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF, 5x11 mm (dia. x h)

    5VSB rail from PSU
    - C5B7 - Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF, 5x11 mm (dia. x h)

    12V rail from PSU (GPU VRM high side)
    - C6B3 - Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C7B3 - Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)

    GPU V_core rail (GPU VRM low side)
    - C6C2 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C6C3 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C7C1 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C7C2 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)

    CPU V_core rail (CPU VRM low side)
    - C8C1 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C8D1 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C8D4 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C8E3 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C8E8 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C8F1 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C8F2 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C8F3 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)

    5V rail (generated from PSU 12V rail) for USB controllers and front ports, if I remember correctly
    - C7F1 - Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)

    12V rail from PSU (5V rail VRM high side)
    - C7F2 - Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)
    - C6F3 - Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF, 10x20 mm (dia. x h)

    Worth noting is that if you have other dead 360 boards, you can use these caps interchangeably:

    Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF <--> Rubycon MFZ 6.3 V, 2700 uF <--> Fujitsu FPCAP RE 4 V, 820 uF (the yellow ones)

    Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Rubycon MCZ 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Panasonic FL 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Sanyo WF 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Chemicon KZJ 16 V, 1500 uF
    (I personally wouldn't recommend using the last two, as they are somewhat unreliable series)

    Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF <--> Rubycon YXA 16 V, 100 uF <--> Chemicon KMG 16 V, 100 uF <--> Panasonic NHG 16 V, 100 uF

    Let me know if you need any other help with these. I have these boards for scrap (already pulled the caps) and can get most component value measurements for you.

    As stj noted, there might be a reason why the caps were pulled from your board (probably unrepairable). I've seen quite a few 360's develop bad RAM. Not worth the effort changing it, IMO. But it could be that GPU just needs a reflow. Or, if you are very lucky, a shorted MOSFET on GPU or CPU VRM - but I've seen only one or two cases of that (used to work/help in a console repair shop). Most common problems are GPU BGA issues, DVD drive laser or stuck door, and overheating RAM chips (which is not easily repairable).

    @Momaka, Any chance you feel like updating this capacitor list with currently available replacements caps? I have an old Xbox360 non-HDMI xenon board with several obviously blown Rubicon 6.3v 2700uf MFZ caps that I would like to try replacing then reflowing the GPU to see if I can revive this old thing. (3 red lights).

    Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

    Leave a comment:


  • momaka
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Originally posted by The_Killer53
    Hey, I was wondering could I change my Nichicon HZ 6.3v 2200uf to Nichicon 16v 1500uF ? Thanks.
    The ripple and ESR specs of the Nichicon HN 16v 1500 uF are not as good as the Nichicon HZ6.3v 2200 uF specs. My guess would be they are still somewhat close enough to work. But, I never tried it, so I can't say from personal experience whether or not this will work for sure.

    Originally posted by The_Killer53
    Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF <--> Nichicon 2200μF 6.3 V, VZ Series 10 x 20mm
    Won't work (or not for long).
    Nichicon VZ caps are general purpose 105C, as Agent24 noted. So that's not suitable. From electrolytic caps, your only choices are really only Nichicon HN, Nichicon HZ (again), or Rubycon MCZ. You won't find MFZ for sale anywhere online (if you do and they are not Xbox 360 pulls, BEWARE!)

    If these are for the caps on GPU V_core or CPU V_core, you can also use 2.5V or 4V 820-1200 uF polymer caps. Just about any polymer brand and series will do.

    Originally posted by The_Killer53
    Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Nichicon 1500μF 16 V, PM Series 12.5 x 25mm
    Probably won't work too well in the long run (if it does at all). Again, Nichicon PM does not quite poses the good ripple and ESR specs of Nichicon HN. I think Nichicon HW, Panasonic FR/FM, Rubycon ZL, and Chemicon KZE is probably as far down as you can go.

    Originally posted by The_Killer53
    Also could I change a Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF <--> 820uf 6.3v
    If that is just for spots, C5B4 and C5B2, then this should be okay. But I wouldn't suggest blindly using 6.3V caps in place of 16V caps anywhere else on the board. Could have a 12V rail somewhere and make one of those caps go kaboom .

    Originally posted by vinceroger69
    Hi just followed this guide and the xbox now powers up fine ... i will do the top fan mod too but have to order a couple as fancy the led and bearing type fans.
    Nice!
    Let us know how it turns up. Better yet, show us pictures when you are done with it and if you have time.

    Leave a comment:


  • The_Killer53
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Hey, I was wondering could I change my Nichicon HZ 6.3v 2200uf to Nichicon 16v 1500uF ? Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • The_Killer53
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Originally posted by Wester547
    Nichicon VZ is general purpose. Definitely not a suitable choice for the VRM output of the CPU and GPU, as HZ is the highest grade of wet electrolytics. You need to match or come close to matching the ESR and ripple ratings of the original capacitors.

    PM even in 12x25mm case size isn't rated for anywhere near the ripple current or ESR that Nichicon HN is. As stated above, you need to find replacements that are more or less equal to the originals as far as ripple and ESR goes (exceeding the ratings of the originals wouldn't hurt in this case).

    Ultra low ESR lytics would be an overkill for that application if that's what you're referencing.
    Hey, Thanks for the info. I have found an old board that I'm going to pull the caps from

    - Thanks again!

    Leave a comment:


  • stj
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    it wont help much, you really need to remove the dvd and put a bigger heatsink on the gpu.
    also, mod the plastic ducting acordingly.

    i'v tried the 12v mod in the past, and the top-fan - neither worked in the end.
    the fucking dvd shields the gpu from the top-fan and stops you using a good enough heat sink.

    jtag / glitch-mod it for harddrive loading and ditch the dvd if you can.

    Leave a comment:


  • vinceroger69
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Hi guys ive just managed to make two xbox 360 out of the three i had.I have had to relow both and service the dvd trays so whilst apart i thought i would do the 12 volt fan mod (cut both fan lives from plug solder to one wire then connect too 12v bottom of power supply plug socket) yes this works fine and should stop the rrod for a little longer as better cooling the down side is its noisy can i lower the voltage down to say 9 volts i will be certainly higher than the 5 volts it was running so should keep the box cooler and hopefully quiter so what i need to know is can i use a resisitor in heat shrink to drop the voltage if so what size and what watt? the fans are 12v max 0.40 amp each (two fans on back now connected to one 12v feed) thanks guys.
    Last edited by vinceroger69; 03-11-2016, 09:22 AM.

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  • Wester547
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Originally posted by The_Killer53
    Hey everyone. I have been looking through some caps and I'm wondering if these caps can be used on my board:

    Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF <--> Nichicon 2200μF 6.3 V, VZ Series 10 x 20mm
    Nichicon VZ is general purpose. Definitely not a suitable choice for the VRM output of the CPU and GPU, as HZ is the highest grade of wet electrolytics. You need to match or come close to matching the ESR and ripple ratings of the original capacitors.

    Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Nichicon 1500μF 16 V, PM Series 12.5 x 25mm
    PM even in 12x25mm case size isn't rated for anywhere near the ripple current or ESR that Nichicon HN is. As stated above, you need to find replacements that are more or less equal to the originals as far as ripple and ESR goes (exceeding the ratings of the originals wouldn't hurt in this case).

    Also could I change a Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF <--> 820uf 6.3v
    Ultra low ESR lytics would be an overkill for that application if that's what you're referencing.
    Last edited by Wester547; 03-10-2016, 02:43 PM.

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  • vinceroger69
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Originally posted by momaka
    As for reflowing and reballing, we used to do that with a proper rework station. But if you all have is a heatgun, you can still do a proper reflow. Just do NOT bake the board in the oven, as that *will* destroy all of the electrolytic capacitors. I've seen this mistake way too many times.

    I wouldn't say that Mad_Professor's way of doing is wrong, but I do have some things to add to that process.

    First and foremost, you *will* need proper flux for lead-free solder. Regular rosin may not do so well (in fact, it may burn of and harden way before the lead-free solder melts, which may actually cause an even worse chance of successful reflow). Kingo RMA-218 is a cheap Chinese generic that works fairly well. But I think Kester had some better fluxes available.

    As for the reflow process itself:

    1) Clean around the chip you will be reflowing with 90+% IPA (isopropyl alcohol).

    2) Make a heat shield for any nearby capacitors. I've seen way too many people not do that and pop the caps on their board. Aluminum foil works fine for that. Don't completely cover the caps, though - we are not trying to cook a Turkey here . Just cover them on the side that they are likely to get hit by hot air from the heat gun.

    3) Place the board on some kind of a metal stand so that you have access to both the top side and the bottom. I usually do this by clamping metal rods to a table and have the metal rods sticking past the edge of the table. Then I place the board there, so I can have access to both the top and the bottom of the board. This way, I don't have to flip the board when it is hot, which greatly reduces stress on the various BGA components on the board. The chip you are trying to reflow/remove/rebal should always be on the top side.

    3a) (Optional, but very highly recommended) If you have a type-K temperature thermometer, put the thermocouple probe near the chip you will be reflowing. Don't put it on the ship itself or under its BGA, as that may actually cause the chip to move out of place once it is hot. As for type-K thermometers, the Lutron TM-902C can be found for about $5 on eBay, and I highly recommend it.

    4) Assuming you have a high-power dual temperature heat gun, turn ON the heat gun to the low setting (which should be around 500 Watts, give or take 150) and heat the board from the bottom side, focusing mostly in the area under the BGA chip you are trying to reflow.

    5) When the temperature readout of the type-K thermometer reaches 150C-160C (if you don't have a thermometer, it will probably take 3-5 minutes to get up to that temperature), stop heating and gently apply flux around the edges of the chip. The hot air coming from between the board and the chip will actually suck the flux right into the BGA, so no need to worry how to put the flux under the chip. Also, do NOT drown the chip in flux. Too much flux can actually cause the solder balls to move around and short out to each other.

    6) Switch the heat gun to the high setting (should be around 1000 Watts) and continue heating the chip from the bottom of the board.

    7) When the temperature reaches around 180C (again, if you don't have a thermometer, this could take another 2-3 minutes), stop the heatgun and carefully move it to the top side of the board. Begin heating the top side of the board on the high setting again.

    8) When the temperature reaches around 220-230C and stays in that range for 10 seconds (again, if you don't have a thermometer, this could take another 2-3 minutes), turn OFF the heat gun.

    9) Let the board cool down for about 10-20 minutes (this will depend on how hot/cold it is where you are working).

    10) Remove protective heat shield around caps and test the board. (Don't forget to add thermal compound to the CPU and GPU, of course. )
    Hi just followed this guide and the xbox now powers up fine, ive also done the 12 volt fan mod and no more rrod, so tomorrow i just have to change the dvd try drive belt as is slipping/worn then fully reasemble and then test i guess i will do the top fan mod too but have to order a couple as fancy the led and bearing type fans.

    Leave a comment:


  • The_Killer53
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Hey everyone. I have been looking through some caps and I'm wondering if these caps can be used on my board:

    Nichicon HZ 6.3 V, 2200 uF <--> Nichicon 2200μF 6.3 V, VZ Series 10 x 20mm

    Nichicon HN 16 V, 1500 uF <--> Nichicon 1500μF 16 V, PM Series 12.5 x 25mm

    If not could you guide me to any that can be

    - Thanks

    EDIT:

    Also could I change a Nichicon VZ 16 V, 100 uF <--> 820uf 6.3v
    Last edited by The_Killer53; 03-09-2016, 11:20 AM.

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  • vinceroger69
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Thanks for the info guys and yes the glue removed easy with the use of a hair dryer i used to struggle not sure why i didnt think of heating it before.

    Leave a comment:


  • stj
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    dont mess with the x-clamps, if you pull the sink harder you bend the board.

    if you want a 360 to keep working, remove or relocate the dvd drive and fit the gpu with a spare cpu heatsink (the big one)

    Leave a comment:


  • momaka
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Heat the board to around 100-120C, then remove it - it will come off much easier when hot. If you are afraid of warping/damaging the board when hot, though, then you can try to remove it when cold too. It will just come off harder.

    Leave a comment:


  • vinceroger69
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Thank you i will try the reflow on monday and see if i can do it ok a quick last question though my gpu has 6 lots of glue around it do i leave it on or try to remove it first thanks again.

    Leave a comment:


  • momaka
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Originally posted by vinceroger69
    which heat sink compound? i have artic siver five or Arctic Silver Ceramique Thermal Compound im not sure which ones the best?
    AS 5 is probably the best. Ceramique is okay too.

    Originally posted by vinceroger69
    also as i have a spare top cover ive saw a youtube video and also reece mentioned it about cutting a square in the top plastic and mount a fan on blowing onto the gpu whats your thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1eANg66_U
    Yes, that is actually the other thing I was thinking about suggesting. In general, though, that mod is most effective with the rev. 2 GPU heatsink (like yours), because the fan will blow cool air right onto that little extension of the GPU heatsink. So yes, I do recommend it.

    Leave a comment:


  • vinceroger69
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Thanks for the reply a couple of other questions which heat sink compound? i have artic siver five or Arctic Silver Ceramique Thermal Compound im not sure which ones the best? also as i have a spare top cover ive saw a youtube video and also reece mentioned it about cutting a square in the top plastic and mount a fan on blowing onto the gpu whats your thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1eANg66_U
    this is a spare xbox of mine so just want to get it running and use it firstly too see how long a reflow can last and practice on the games lol.
    I will bend the original x clamps too add a little more pressure, i had to make a tool to remove them lol as i didnt want to slip with a screw driver removing them so modded a old xclamp as i had a spare.
    Last edited by vinceroger69; 03-05-2016, 02:44 PM.

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  • momaka
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Originally posted by vinceroger69
    So just to make it clear formyself do i reflow both chips whilst i have the chance?
    I would do just the GPU. The CPU takes a lot of heat due to big copper planes and you are much more likely to pop the caps. It is cooled by a big heatsink, so it doesn't reach the same high temperatures that the GPU does, and that's why it has much less problems.

    Originally posted by vinceroger69
    this xbox has the proper x clamps on still so i will replace these also on a forum ive read you can add a thin piece of aliminium sheet under the heat sinks too add more pressure on the chips whats your thoughts?
    I am a bit weary of that method, because then you will have two applications of thermal compound vs. one. And no matter how good of a thermal compound you use, I think that will still have worse heat transfer than the GPU core directly to the heatsink. Also, if you ever do shims, always use copper, since it has better heat conductivity.

    As for the X-clamps... Microsoft actually almost did them right. The good about the X-clamps is that they provide back pressure/support behind the CPU and GPU, so the board doesn't get warped (which is really the best heatsink retention mechanism design). It is also a self-balancing design, meaning that the heatsink will always stay flat on the CPU/GPU core. However, here is where Microsoft messed up, IMO: the X-clamps are also screwed to the metal cage of the Xbox. Therefore, they are stationary relative to the metal cage. But if the board is not perfectly straight, or if it moves or warps due to heat inside the Xbox, the heatsinks may loose some contact with the GPU/CPU.

    What we used to do in the repair shop is to remove the X-clamp altogether and cut threads on the heatsink nipples that the X-clamp used to grab on. Then, we'd fit nuts on them and tighten all the way down to the board (let me know if you need pictures... I think I still have a few modded heatsinks somewhere). This makes sure the heatsink always stays with the board (and thus makes good contact with the CPU/GPU cores). However, this method *does* warp the board over time. So if you were to do a reflow again, the board could be too warped and the GPU/CPU might actually separate even more from the board.

    So personally, I would just re-use the X-clamps. The only modification I would make is to bend each X-clamp so that it applies even more pressure on the CPU/GPU. Now I haven't tested how much pressure those X-clamps apply, but if sufficient, I would also forgo screwing the heatsinks to the metal cage so that the heatsinks can move freely with the board and self-balance on the cores. However, that is a bit dangerous, because the heatsinks can cause damage to the board and/or GPU/CPU core if the Xbox is dropped or knocked badly. Probably not something to do on a customer's box, though, as you don't know how they treat their stuff.

    But IMO, the biggest problem is that the GPU heatsink is just too small (and GPU problems are really the most common type). The rev. 2 GPU heatsinks (like the one you have) are a little better, but still not adequate for good cooling. Modding the fans to run at a higher speed definitely helps, but you have to have them cranked to at least 9V to get enough air output, and that makes the Xbox really loud. If you don't care how the Xbox looks and you want to keep it quiet, then find a rev. 1 aluminum CPU heatsink and put it on the GPU. Note that a rev. 2 CPU heatsink will NOT work unless you rotate it 90 degrees (due to GPU having a "second core"). You will also need to make the DVD drive external. But if you want your Xbox 360 to last, that is probably the best way to do it.
    Last edited by momaka; 03-05-2016, 01:37 PM.

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  • vinceroger69
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Originally posted by momaka
    As for reflowing and reballing, we used to do that with a proper rework station. But if you all have is a heatgun, you can still do a proper reflow. Just do NOT bake the board in the oven, as that *will* destroy all of the electrolytic capacitors. I've seen this mistake way too many times.

    I wouldn't say that Mad_Professor's way of doing is wrong, but I do have some things to add to that process.

    First and foremost, you *will* need proper flux for lead-free solder. Regular rosin may not do so well (in fact, it may burn of and harden way before the lead-free solder melts, which may actually cause an even worse chance of successful reflow). Kingo RMA-218 is a cheap Chinese generic that works fairly well. But I think Kester had some better fluxes available.

    As for the reflow process itself:

    1) Clean around the chip you will be reflowing with 90+% IPA (isopropyl alcohol).

    2) Make a heat shield for any nearby capacitors. I've seen way too many people not do that and pop the caps on their board. Aluminum foil works fine for that. Don't completely cover the caps, though - we are not trying to cook a Turkey here . Just cover them on the side that they are likely to get hit by hot air from the heat gun.

    3) Place the board on some kind of a metal stand so that you have access to both the top side and the bottom. I usually do this by clamping metal rods to a table and have the metal rods sticking past the edge of the table. Then I place the board there, so I can have access to both the top and the bottom of the board. This way, I don't have to flip the board when it is hot, which greatly reduces stress on the various BGA components on the board. The chip you are trying to reflow/remove/rebal should always be on the top side.

    3a) (Optional, but very highly recommended) If you have a type-K temperature thermometer, put the thermocouple probe near the chip you will be reflowing. Don't put it on the ship itself or under its BGA, as that may actually cause the chip to move out of place once it is hot. As for type-K thermometers, the Lutron TM-902C can be found for about $5 on eBay, and I highly recommend it.

    4) Assuming you have a high-power dual temperature heat gun, turn ON the heat gun to the low setting (which should be around 500 Watts, give or take 150) and heat the board from the bottom side, focusing mostly in the area under the BGA chip you are trying to reflow.

    5) When the temperature readout of the type-K thermometer reaches 150C-160C (if you don't have a thermometer, it will probably take 3-5 minutes to get up to that temperature), stop heating and gently apply flux around the edges of the chip. The hot air coming from between the board and the chip will actually suck the flux right into the BGA, so no need to worry how to put the flux under the chip. Also, do NOT drown the chip in flux. Too much flux can actually cause the solder balls to move around and short out to each other.

    6) Switch the heat gun to the high setting (should be around 1000 Watts) and continue heating the chip from the bottom of the board.

    7) When the temperature reaches around 180C (again, if you don't have a thermometer, this could take another 2-3 minutes), stop the heatgun and carefully move it to the top side of the board. Begin heating the top side of the board on the high setting again.

    8) When the temperature reaches around 220-230C and stays in that range for 10 seconds (again, if you don't have a thermometer, this could take another 2-3 minutes), turn OFF the heat gun.

    9) Let the board cool down for about 10-20 minutes (this will depend on how hot/cold it is where you are working).

    10) Remove protective heat shield around caps and test the board. (Don't forget to add thermal compound to the CPU and GPU, of course. )
    Firstly thanks for your quick reply yes i do have liquid no clean flux also a type-K thermometer i have artic siver five or Arctic Silver Ceramique Thermal Compound i can use (used these for a laptop reflow basically i did the same as you have wrote in this thread) and the laptop is still going strong after 1 year typing on it now infact. So just to make it clear formyself do i reflow both chips whilst i have the chance? And yes i have already made a tin foil shield with holes cut out for both chips, this xbox has the proper x clamps on still so i will replace these also on a forum ive read you can add a thin piece of aliminium sheet under the heat sinks too add more pressure on the chips whats your thoughts? and heres a link to the secondary codes etc thanks again for te help/advice.
    http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.p...des-explained/

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  • momaka
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    As for reflowing and reballing, we used to do that with a proper rework station. But if you all have is a heatgun, you can still do a proper reflow. Just do NOT bake the board in the oven, as that *will* destroy all of the electrolytic capacitors. I've seen this mistake way too many times.

    I wouldn't say that Mad_Professor's way of doing is wrong, but I do have some things to add to that process.

    First and foremost, you *will* need proper flux for lead-free solder. Regular rosin may not do so well (in fact, it may burn of and harden way before the lead-free solder melts, which may actually cause an even worse chance of successful reflow). Kingo RMA-218 is a cheap Chinese generic that works fairly well. But I think Kester had some better fluxes available.

    As for the reflow process itself:

    1) Clean around the chip you will be reflowing with 90+% IPA (isopropyl alcohol).

    2) Make a heat shield for any nearby capacitors. I've seen way too many people not do that and pop the caps on their board. Aluminum foil works fine for that. Don't completely cover the caps, though - we are not trying to cook a Turkey here . Just cover them on the side that they are likely to get hit by hot air from the heat gun.

    3) Place the board on some kind of a metal stand so that you have access to both the top side and the bottom. I usually do this by clamping metal rods to a table and have the metal rods sticking past the edge of the table. Then I place the board there, so I can have access to both the top and the bottom of the board. This way, I don't have to flip the board when it is hot, which greatly reduces stress on the various BGA components on the board. The chip you are trying to reflow/remove/rebal should always be on the top side.

    3a) (Optional, but very highly recommended) If you have a type-K temperature thermometer, put the thermocouple probe near the chip you will be reflowing. Don't put it on the ship itself or under its BGA, as that may actually cause the chip to move out of place once it is hot. As for type-K thermometers, the Lutron TM-902C can be found for about $5 on eBay, and I highly recommend it.

    4) Assuming you have a high-power dual temperature heat gun, turn ON the heat gun to the low setting (which should be around 500 Watts, give or take 150) and heat the board from the bottom side, focusing mostly in the area under the BGA chip you are trying to reflow.

    5) When the temperature readout of the type-K thermometer reaches 150C-160C (if you don't have a thermometer, it will probably take 3-5 minutes to get up to that temperature), stop heating and gently apply flux around the edges of the chip. The hot air coming from between the board and the chip will actually suck the flux right into the BGA, so no need to worry how to put the flux under the chip. Also, do NOT drown the chip in flux. Too much flux can actually cause the solder balls to move around and short out to each other.

    6) Switch the heat gun to the high setting (should be around 1000 Watts) and continue heating the chip from the bottom of the board.

    7) When the temperature reaches around 180C (again, if you don't have a thermometer, this could take another 2-3 minutes), stop the heatgun and carefully move it to the top side of the board. Begin heating the top side of the board on the high setting again.

    8) When the temperature reaches around 220-230C and stays in that range for 10 seconds (again, if you don't have a thermometer, this could take another 2-3 minutes), turn OFF the heat gun.

    9) Let the board cool down for about 10-20 minutes (this will depend on how hot/cold it is where you are working).

    10) Remove protective heat shield around caps and test the board. (Don't forget to add thermal compound to the CPU and GPU, of course. )
    Last edited by momaka; 03-05-2016, 10:31 AM.

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  • momaka
    replied
    Re: Xbox 360 Xenon Motherboard Capacitor Replacements?

    Originally posted by vinceroger69
    and momaka sounds like hes worked on a few of these so maybe he can help us both out with our repairs.
    Yes sir.
    It's been a few years now since I worked on one, so I am a bit rusty with what the secondary codes meant, but I don't mind helping you either way.

    Originally posted by The_Killer53
    I will ask if I need anything else and will keep you posted on my progress with the board
    Yes, please do. We like it when a thread reaches conclusive results

    Originally posted by vinceroger69
    i can see why it has the 3 red lights now and secondary code 0102 no wonder the xbox failed look at the dust in the enclosed pictures i think i may try a reflow on this board.
    Yeah, probably just needs a GPU reflow. The CPU BGA rarely fails (even though yours has all of that dust on its heatsink).

    Also, when testing these boards, I highly recommend you have the PSU nearby so that you can see its indicator light. Normally, it is yellow when the Xbox 360 is OFF. But after you power ON the Xbox 360, if the light on the PSU flashes Red or goes back to solid Yellow (after flashing Green for a quick moment), then you likely have a short-circuit somewhere (usually GPU chip itself, GPU BGA, or RAM chips). Occasionally, you may also hear a slight buzzing sound coming from the MOSFETs near GPU - this is also a good indicator of a short-circuit in GPU, GPU BGA, and RAM.

    If I remember correctly, 0102 may also cause MOSFETs Q2G1 and Q3F1 near the RAM chips to overheat (as well as coil L2F1). This is a sign that there is a short-circuit in either GPU, GPU BGA, or RAM. The PSU will not detect this short-circuit and its light will continue to be Green. Therefore, I always check those two MOSFETs to see if they are overheating. Just put your finger on them - if they turn burning-hot within 5-10 seconds of turning ON the Xbox 360, you have a short-circuit on that rail.

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