junky Jetway P4MDPT board

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Another non-visible GSC c[r]ap from a P4 board. Dimm detection is dodgy so this might be an issue from the aging caps.

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Here is the FSP 300W I talked about earlier, all caps are from Teapo and two of them are inside heat-shrink tube. It also seems that each 12V output V1/V2 has 2 16V 1000V caps. I don't think it needs any improvements atm.

[momaka]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

The latest c[r]ap discovery was bulged samwha caps inside a 223BW monitor. Specs are 25V/820uF SAMWHA XC 105°C but no datasheet. Another band-aid job for Nichicon VY 1000uf 25V / HD 680uf 25V and a small 47uf to Nichicon PJ.

I'm pretty sure XC are made for High Ripple so I guess I'm gonna need something better than VY here too.

Yeah, monitor PSUs use flyback topology, so caps with high ripple current specs would be desirable. Probably better to slip in a few more Nichicon HD 680 uF in there in place of some of the VYs, as they have better specs than the VY... though the VY should hold up OK too if the monitor doesn't run too hot.

For cap choices for monitors, generally these are what works pretty well:
Panasonic FR, FM, FS... and FC if the other 3 are not available
Rubycon ZLQ, ZLH, ZLJ, ZL, and maybe YXG and YXJ too
Nichicon HE, HD, HC, HW, HV and probably also PW, PS, PM, and PJ will do
United Chemicon KY, KZE, KYB, KZH... along with LXZ, LXY, and LXV if the first 4 aren't available first.

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

I will switch 5VSB to KY 1000uf or FL 1000uf probably and 3.3V/5V to KY 2200uf 10V if they arrive in time. The latest c[r]ap discovery was bulged samwha caps inside a 223BW monitor. Specs are 25V/820uF SAMWHA XC 105°C but no datasheet. Another band-aid job for Nichicon VY 1000uf 25V / HD 680uf 25V and a small 47uf to Nichicon PJ.

I'm pretty sure XC are made for High Ripple so I guess I'm gonna need something better than VY here too.

[momaka]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

5VSB -> Has NICON 16V 1000uf and a 470uf 16V. 1000uf cap has to be 8mm otherwise it pushes another small cap to the heatsink. The only 8mm non-crap (chengX, Teapo, OST) that I have is the infamous *KZG* 6.3V 1500uf.

Based on the pictures you provided of your PSU, I think it should be possible to squeeze a 10 mm cap in that spot if you let the cap sit raised about 2-3 above the PCB with slightly longer leads and bending them a little.

Otherwise, it's hard to say which one of the cap choices above would be a good replacement. I want to say the KZG may do better than all of these... but also it may not, given that it's a 6.3V one, and I just don't trust those, no matter what date code they have.

The OST... might be OK if RLS series. But any others, I'd avoid. Same goes for Teapo - SY series might be OK-ish. All others: Meh.
ChengX... "non-crap"? Nah, you kidding, right?! All Cheng/Chang/Chong/X/whatever are

I have another PSU that will probably need care soon, all filtering caps are from TEAPO. I don't think it will look good.

If they are all Teapo, just check them on the ESR meter. If still in spec, probably OK to leave them... unless those Nichicon HV caps you have match the capacity and/or voltage too on some of the Teapos.

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...ee3c51807e.pdf

June 2009

Much appreciated

[Per Hansson]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...ee3c51807e.pdf

June 2009

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

12V -> Nichicon VY 3300uf 16V (done)
5V/3.3V -> Band-aid Lelon 2200uf + 1000uf Nichicon VY (Will update with better caps later)
5VSB -> Has NICON 16V 1000uf and a 470uf 16V. 1000uf cap has to be 8mm otherwise it pushes another small cap to the heatsink. The only 8mm non-crap (chengX, Teapo, OST) that I have is the infamous *KZG* 6.3V 1500uf. I'll add cap photo in case someone knows production date. Thanks a lot fellas.

Funny thing that I've found 2 perfect KZG caps from a 2006 3com switch. Some P/N are not that affected it seems. People that review PSU's say most makers have to use lower quality caps due to limited stock, the Q/C is lower cause they have to fulfill more orders. I have another PSU that will probably need care soon, all filtering caps are from TEAPO. I don't think it will look good.

[momaka]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

neither of those are suitable because kzg is a very low esr series and FL is an ultra low esr series like FJ. kzgs are also a defective failure prone series unless their date codes are later than 2007 or 2008.

Correct... though probably both will work fine, since the 3.3V rail uses a mag-amp and generally is OK with slightly lower ESR. That said, I'd pick the Panny FL caps, since KZG is known to have problems (at least the older ones.) So to avoid any gambles, go with FL.

I saw the cap mark on VY and also checked their site and it seems VY is a 105 C rated cap.

Ah, you're right. I was thinking of the VR series.

3.3V -> 2X 1500uf FL or KZG 6.3V
5V -> 2X Nichicon HV 1500uf 16V
12V -> 1X Nichicon VY 3300uf 16V

I'd probably do it more like this:

3.3V -> 2X 1500uf FL 6.3V
5V -> 1X Nichicon VY 3300uf 16V + 1x Nichicon HV 1500uf 16V
12V -> 1X Nichicon VY 3300uf 16V

And also:
5VSB -> 1x 1500uf FL 6.3V *or* 1x Nichicon HV 1500uf 16V

Don't neglect the 5VSB, even though it's a low-power rail. Due to using flyback topology, it is actually one of the most stressful rail for caps, so only use good name-brand caps there. Both Panasonic FL or Nichcion HV will do fine here. In fact, 5VSB typically do really well with very low or ultra-low ESR... so FL or HV will do nicely... or you can use a 1000 uF polymer for one of the caps there too.

*Pretty sure even 100$ PSU doesn't use that kind of CAP anymore its just Teapo, ChongX, ASIA-X etc

I don't know about that. Here you can get a very good PSU for $100 with name-brand Japanese capacitors. Only thing you need to be concerned for at this price range is the power rating. You can either get a more "powerful" PSU that is built with slightly smaller/weaker input caps or a more "modest" PSU that is overbuilt a lot. IMO, the latter is the better option, as I've seen a lot of high-power PSUs blow their primary caps after many years of use (yes, even Japanese brands), due to APFC putting a lot of stress on them, especially at high loads.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

I've been lately suspecting 2004 and 2005 KZGs being the worst.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

then what about KZG 1500uf 6.3V which I have in massive stock ? If 6.3V cap is OK I can even use Panasonic FL 6.3V 1500uf.

neither of those are suitable because kzg is a very low esr series and FL is an ultra low esr series like FJ. kzgs are also a defective failure prone series unless their date codes are later than 2007 or 2008.

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Thanks for the help, unfortunately PSU has just one spot for 12V cap. I saw the cap mark on VY and also checked their site and it seems VY is a 105 C rated cap. The 3300uf VY might not be a bad idea at all.

If sus'con 1000uf 10V are underrated or crap for 3.3V filter then what about KZG 1500uf 6.3V which I have in massive stock ? If 6.3V cap is OK I can even use Panasonic FL 6.3V 1500uf.

3.3V -> 2X 1500uf FL or KZG 6.3V
5V -> 2X Nichicon HV 1500uf 16V
12V -> 1X Nichicon VY 3300uf 16V

*Pretty sure even 100$ PSU doesn't use that kind of CAP anymore its just Teapo, ChongX, ASIA-X etc

Can't get any better with current market state, every order is delayed and stock is low.

[momaka]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

I forgot I had already done 3.3V filter caps with some Su'scon 10V 1000uf.

Yeah, that's not going to do too well for filtering ripple. A lot of cheap crap PSUs come with just 2x 1000 uF on each rail (3.3V, 5V, and 12V), but that's *not* anywhere enough to filter ripple properly, especially because these PSUs are based on half-bridge design, which uses relatively low switching frequency and thus needs bigger caps on the output for proper filtering. Therefore, such PSUs need, again, *at least* 1x 1000 uF and 1x 2200 uF caps on each rail (so total of *at least* 3000 uF on each rail.) Any less, and the PSU will be spewing out abnormal ripple that then the hardware will have to cope with. This can lead to shortened lives of hard drives and motherboard components.

Will polymers work for filtering ?

Short answer: No

Long answer:
Polymers will likely make the ripple output even worse. Too low of an ESR, especially on these older designs, is a really bad thing - the combination of low capacitance and low ESR will produce a ton of ringing noise on the output rails (ringing is noise created by the filter itself due to it being an LRC circuit, naturally.)

The only exception is the 5VSB - there you can probably use something like 1x 1000 uF and 1x 470 uF polymers or just 2x 1000 uF polymers. But even then, some PWM-FET controllers for the 5VSB (if the PSU uses one) may also not like the polymers too much or may not be compensated for it, so you may also get a terrible whining noise from the 5VSB too. So polymers and 5VSB: MAYBE OK. But polymers and the rest of the PSU: NO.

To keep it simple, just remember this about recapping PSUs: you can always go up in the capacity of the capacitors, but never lower. On cheap PSUs that use the 2x 1000 uF cap treatment, just completely ignore what they had and go with 2x 2200 uF for each rail. ESR-wise, caps should be entry-level to mid-range low ESR. Ultra-low ESR and polymers are not recommended and may not work (or even make the PSU oscillate wildly and blow.) On half-bridge designs, polymers should never be used due to low switching frequency (typically under 30 KHz.)

My HD/PW are not 2200uf, for the 12V line I can use ->

OCRZ polymer 16V 1000uf
Beryl polymer 16V 470uf
Nichicon (VY) 16V 3300uf
Nichicon (HD) 16V 1500uf
JAKEC 25V 2200uf

or keep Lelon 25V 2200uf

Oh, I see you have Nichion HV series, not HD as you stated - those are actually very durable and dependable for PSU use. IIRC, a few models of the PS3 power supplies use them.

How many cap spots does the 12V rail have? One or two? If two, go with 2x 1500 uF Nichicon HV or 1x 1500 uF HV and 1x 3300 uF VY. Do the same for the 3.3V and 5V rails if they have 2 spots. And if any of these has only 1 cap spot, go with the 3300 uF VY. Yes, I said VY are GP and 85-C only, but I honestly trust them more than JAKEC. And your Lelon is RGA series, which is GP 105-C - i.e. same stuff as the Nichicon VY, but rated for higher temperature... which probably won't matter much, because I still think Nichicon VY is of higher quality than any Lelon.

Of course, if I had to pick between Lelon and JAKEC (or any other major no-name crap cap brand like JAKEC), then I'd surely pick Lelon.

But clearly you have some OK caps on your hands. Both the VY and HV should do.

By the way, your PSU above looks somewhat similar to the one I posted here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=90392

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Jakec show lower ESR than Lelon but both are c[R]ap. PSU ate the 2200V 16V NICON cap within 4-5 years, system use to run a 750Ti then a 1050Ti and a stock AMD FX 8320. Can't be over 220-250W full load.

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

I forgot I had already done 3.3V filter caps with some Su'scon 10V 1000uf. The 5VSB seem fine atm, the PSU originally had "NICON" caps and a melted 4PIN CPU. I re-soldered an 8-pin EPS using AWG 18 instead of 20. Will polymers work for filtering ? Have a ton of polymers and really not great quantity of lytics. My HD/PW are not 2200uf, for the 12V line I can use ->

OCRZ polymer 16V 1000uf
Beryl polymer 16V 470uf
Nichicon (VY) 16V 3300uf
Nichicon (HD) 16V 1500uf
JAKEC 25V 2200uf

or keep Lelon 25V 2200uf

[momaka]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

From the following caps which one is the ideal : Nichicon PW 2200uf 16V / HD 2200uf 16V or a leftover 3300uf VY 16V ?

Either the Nichicon PW or the HD will do just fine. Given the name of the PSU - Nitrox 550W - it sounds to me like a cheap PSU, meaning probably a half-bridge topology (as that's all the Chinese really do for those.) So I'd probably put the PW on the 12V rail and the HD on the 5V or 3.3V rail... or better yet, see if you can squeeze both of these on the 12V rail - that will give it better filtering for a 12V-heavy modern PC.

As for Nichicon VY - that's a general purpose 85C -rated only, so not really suitable for SMPS unless you really have nothing else and need a temporary fix (though, on an old half-bridge design, that VY may still last a few years.) Thus, if you can, try not to use the VY and use HD or PW instead.

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

I opened up a Nitrox 550W psu with a bloated 16V 2200uf Nippon something cap, had to band-aid it for now with a Lelon 25V 2200uf. From the following caps which one is the ideal : Nichicon PW 2200uf 16V / HD 2200uf 16V or a leftover 3300uf VY 16V ? Rest 1000uf caps on the PSU 5V/3.3V rail seem fine although I'm gonna replace them with some spare nichicon VY 16V. PSU is group regulated and I guess has passive pfc.

[momaka]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Playing with such terribly made PSU's is risky, it doesn't worth it even if you use the crappiest hardware.

Yeah, I agree.
In general, you'll probably spend more time and money on parts than what a new and well-built PSU is worth. But some people live in parts of the world where this isn't always the case. So sometimes you just have to make do with what you have. In my case, I like fixing these cheap PSUs out of curiosity. Some of them aren't too terrible and can be made into basic functional PSUs again that aren't dangerous. On that note, the cheap Solytech / Deer / Allied PSUs tend to have really robust and reliable design that's based on the ancient (but well-understood) half-bridge topology. So with the right parts in there, they can be reliable.

Here's one I rebuilt about 12 years ago and still use occasionally in an off-line Pentium 3 computer:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=490

For the record I found a good deal on a FSP-300W-85%, will post at some point the internal part quality.

Sounds good.

And yes, here I can get used or NOS (new old stock) PSUs for $14 or less shipped to my door, and I'm talking about name-brands like Delta, LiteOn, HiPro, FPS, and Bestec. Sure some of the used ones may need new caps, but it's well worth the effort. I recapped three HiPro 300/350 Watt units just a few months ago, posted here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=81905
^ These are rock-solid with new capacitors. They don't have APFC and efficiency is only around 75-80% at best, probably. But that's also why they tend to be so reliable.

[zunasthegreat]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Playing with such terribly made PSU's is risky, it doesn't worth it even if you use the crappiest hardware. For the record I found a good deal on a FSP-300W-85%, will post at some point the internal part quality.

[momaka]

Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

I recently tried to repair a very bizzare LC-8460BTX PSU that mad a horrible buzz sound, the amount of cost savings the maker did was just nuts. PSU had in total 3 filtering caps for 12V/3.3V/5V voltages, one each and half the pcb was empty. The 12V cap gave a reading of 35pF ...

I think I have a pretty good idea about the PSU you're dealing with. LC-84xxBTX is a model number for Solytech / Deer / L&C / Allied PSUs. Probably somewhat similar to these:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=491
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=492

Sometimes they are total crap (many parts missing and PCB not having enough space to put decent parts), and sometimes they could be rebuilt with a few spare parts from other PSUs and also good caps.

They key, in general, to getting these cheapo PSUs working somewhat half-decent is to install 2x 2200 uF at least on each of the major output rails (that is, 3.3V, 5V, and 12V). 5VSB will do OK with 2x 1000 uF. There is also one or two 50V, 47 uF caps in there - those must be replaced too (one will be on the primary side, close to the 5VSB transfomer/circuit and is very important so that the 5VSB doesn't overheat and possibly take the motherboard with it.) If you add the above caps, the PSU should be a lot better, though may still need other work - for example, if the PI inductors are missing and replaced with jumper wire, it may be a good idea to install those. Likewise, the input EMI/RFI filtering components are also often missing on the cheaper units. Getting those installed should make the PSU passable (though not great by any stretch of the imagination.) Of course, only do it if you have the spare parts from other PSUs and electronics. It's probably not worth to buy all these parts for that cheap PSU (well, the electrolytic caps are cheap, but the EMI/RFI filter parts will not be, usually.)

On that note, I just finished rebuilding a somewhat similar cheapo PSU unit from another company (CWT). I've had it for a while and figured I can use it with some older PCs. Here's the thread with that:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=49205