MS 7360 P35 Neo F V1

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  • PCBONEZ
    Grumpy Old Fart
    • Aug 2005
    • 10661
    • USA
    #21
    Re: MS 7360 P35 Neo F V1

    When you parallel caps the amps [er, ripple] is additive.
    The ESR you figure out like parallel resistors.
    http://www.1728.com/resistrs.htm
    - Since there is only two and the same size it works to 1/2 anyway.
    So, your math is right -IF- those were the original caps.
    I'm not sure if OST has any other series with short caps like that or not.

    You did raise ESR from .014 to .019.
    Raising is the wrong direction although that's not a huge step.
    [Sorry, I should have caught that sooner.]

    The other little problem is you mounted the caps with long leads by laying them over which can raise ESR for the caps you did that with by as much as .010.

    At least it's working for now.
    If it starts getting flaky later on then slap some polymers in that bad boy!
    .
    Mann-Made Global Warming.
    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
    -
    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
    - Dr Seuss
    -
    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
    -

      Comment

      • CapBlown
        Senior Member
        • May 2010
        • 93
        #22
        Re: MS 7360 P35 Neo F V1

        Originally posted by PCBONEZ
        You did raise ESR from .014 to .019.
        Raising is the wrong direction although that's not a huge step.
        Yes, ESR seems to have raised a bit. But that is situation comparing 1 new cap to 2 old caps. I figured out that ripple needs to be calculated over all installed caps. Then the difference is not really that big.

        Four installed Panasonics, total ESR is about 0,0047 ohms compared to 8 OST's which has total ESR of 0,0035 ohms does not sound that bad then. I feel quite safe now.

        Also the fact is that OST's hardly lasted for two or three years. Makes me think that whatever is advertised in OST's papers can be considered as a wet dream . Matsushita/Panasonic instead is known big supplier so it is more likely to give us real facts in their datasheets.

        Thanks for giving me excellent advices PCBONEZ. It's good to have some understanding about ESR and Ripple so next time I surely will calculate them in advance.

          Comment

          • PCBONEZ
            Grumpy Old Fart
            • Aug 2005
            • 10661
            • USA
            #23
            Re: MS 7360 P35 Neo F V1

            Most brands probably at least meet their data sheet specs when new.
            [Fuhjyyu is a known exception to that.]

            Anyway, the caps actually matching the data sheet isn't what the thinking should be.
            -
            Whoever chose the caps for that design chose them based on what the design engineer called for and what the cap data sheets say.

            - That means whatever the data sheet says is what was intended to be there.
            And that's true regardless of the caps living up to their data sheet claims or not.
            .
            Follow?
            .
            Mann-Made Global Warming.
            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
            -
            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
            - Dr Seuss
            -
            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
            -

              Comment

              • a23d56
                Member
                • Apr 2011
                • 29
                #24
                Re: MS 7360 P35 Neo F V1

                Originally posted by PCBONEZ
                Both of these are 'good brand' low ESR caps..

                Nichicon HZ 8x20mm ,, ESR = .009 Ohms ,, Ripple = 2880 mA
                Panasonic FC 8x20mm ,, ESR = .065 Ohms ,, Ripple = 995 mA
                I started looking at data sheets to try and find the cheapest equivalent for my bad caps ... but I can't find a data sheet for HN 820uf 6.3v 8x20mm. The 820uf are all shorter than 20mm now, so I don't know what the ESR was on my bad caps.

                But moving up to 1000uf 10v 8x20mm, I find UHM1A102MPD9 with ESR=.018 ripple=1870 for $0.27 each on Mouser. The data sheets say HM is "low impedance", but not "ultra low" like HN. The equivalent HN part has ESR=.012 ripple=2220 (not a huge improvement) but sells at twice the price, $0.56 each.

                I try to buy the cheapest thing that works. Do you think it's safe to go with the cheaper HM?

                  Comment

                  • PCBONEZ
                    Grumpy Old Fart
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 10661
                    • USA
                    #25
                    Re: MS 7360 P35 Neo F V1

                    I think you jumped threads because you haven't posted what you are looking to replace in this one.

                    That said: You did the right work around for a size missing from a data sheet.
                    -
                    If you look in the data sheet all the 8x20mm have the same Ripple/ESR.
                    That is because [within a series] the Ripple and ESR are dependent on the can size [not uF or volts].
                    https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...dcde71fe08.pdf

                    Now if you'll please point me to the right thread and, if you haven't, tell me what the old caps needing replaced are I can take a look.

                    .
                    Attached Files
                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                    -
                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                    - Dr Seuss
                    -
                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                    -

                      Comment

                      • a23d56
                        Member
                        • Apr 2011
                        • 29
                        #26
                        Re: MS 7360 P35 Neo F V1

                        Originally posted by PCBONEZ
                        I think you jumped threads because you haven't posted what you are looking to replace in this one.

                        That said: You did the right work around for a size missing from a data sheet.
                        -
                        If you look in the data sheet all the 8x20mm have the same Ripple/ESR.
                        That is because [within a series] the Ripple and ESR are dependent on the can size [not uF or volts].
                        https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...dcde71fe08.pdf

                        Now if you'll please point me to the right thread and, if you haven't, tell me what the old caps needing replaced are I can take a look.

                        .
                        Sorry, that was the kzg/ost thread I started a couple of days ago.

                        The bad caps were Nichicon HN 820uf 6.3v 8x20 mm. After removing them from my Intel D865perl board, now I can see a code A0313 too.

                          Comment

                          • CapBlown
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2010
                            • 93
                            #27
                            Re: MS 7360 P35 Neo F V1

                            Originally posted by PCBONEZ
                            - That means whatever the data sheet says is what was intended to be there.
                            And that's true regardless of the caps living up to their data sheet claims or not.
                            .
                            Follow?
                            .
                            Yep, got it

                              Comment

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