Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

[evilkitty]

Is there something that makes solid caps undesirable in power supply units?
i realize they cost more, but if they last longer 5 to 10 times longer why not use them on high end units?
we see them on motherboads and video cards, the only electrostatic caps on my board are in the audio output circuit so i guess sold caps do not do analog audio as good

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

Is there something that makes solid caps undesirable in power supply units?

FOr modern PSU:
Capacitance. There ain't no 3300uF Polymers.
There are 2200uF ones but they are darn expensive...

why not use them on high end units?

They are used in some lowish end units like FSP Hexa II. That one has only 2 or 3 wet lytics. And you won't find any higher end unit without polymer caps these days.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

Nichicon PLG: 3900uF
Nichicon PCG: 4800uF
They are limited in voltage though, so not usable in a ATX power supply with DC/DC.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

Yeah, but you don't need those on minor rails anyway....

And using 4V and 6,3V types might make it more expensive because of more parts used. You want to use as little different parts as possible.
That's why sometimes Manufacturer use 16V parts on +5V - because they can save a roll on the pick and place machine.

[vwtcxqdh]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

Hello. I registered for this post here.
Is there now in 2017 any Computer-PSU with no wet capacitors? 300W of power would be enough for me.

Are there any reports on PSUs that have lower amount of wet capacitors then the FSP Hexa 2 PSU? I really dont want to see electronics being produced that wear out so fast with the time. I hope that in the future there would be PSUs that wont loose any quality when they lay around 10 years before being used first time.

[budm]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

Cap has shelf life:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...433#post789433

[vwtcxqdh]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

@budm
I really dont understand your answer. I checked your linked PDF files. None of them is naming a ATX PSU with none or low amount of wet capacitors. Please name a ATX PSU (vendor + model) and maybe a picture of the inside of the PSU.

Thanks

[budm]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

"PSUs that wont loose any quality when they lay around 10 years before being used first time." Cap has shelf life so it does not matter if you talk about power supply or what ever else that has cap in them..
You do not just plug the power supply or any electronics into the outlet without reforming the caps if the unit has been sitting unused for 10 years.

[vwtcxqdh]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

And what Computer PSU should i get now to get longest possible usage time and with as less amount of wet capacitors as possible?

[budm]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

I do not know, but caps are not the only factor about how long the power supply is going to last.
The manufacturers will make all claim all they want so no way you can really tell.
I do not think any one will have the real answer for that.

[vwtcxqdh]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

Is the warranty time of 10 or 12 years the only thing i can go for? Having to send a PSU for RMA for example 5 times in 10 years is also something that is defenetly not what i am searching for.

You told that the caps were not the only factor about how long the power supply is going to last. Until now i had never a PSU that was not failed because of the caps. What else is a often fail reason?

[budm]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=32
Just read through some of those threads.
"What else is a often fail reason?" Poor circuit design, blown diode, MOSFET, IC, poor thermal management, poor manufacturing process (I.E. bad soldering works), poor QC, etc.
The products are made with compromising some where along the way before becoming to the market.

[dmill89]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

Is the warranty time of 10 or 12 years the only thing i can go for? Having to send a PSU for RMA for example 5 times in 10 years is also something that is defenetly not what i am searching for.

You told that the caps were not the only factor about how long the power supply is going to last. Until now i had never a PSU that was not failed because of the caps. What else is a often fail reason?

Buy a PSU from a reputable manufacture (SeaSonic, higher-end Antec and EVGA units, etc.) with Japanese caps (doesn't really matter if electrolytic or polymer) and you should be fine. Barring a fluke/manufacturing defect such PSUs generally last long past when whatever they're powering becomes obsolete.

I've got several PSUs from the 1990s that are still working with their original (electrolytic) caps two of them are Delta units that use Nippon-Chemi-Con (aka. United-Chemi-Con) and Nichicon caps and the others are a Hi-Pro with Teapo Caps and a pair of PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool units with Hermi caps (neither Hermi or Teapo are considered "top-tier" but these units are overbuilt and run cool limiting stress on the caps.

Usually PSUs that have caps fail are either using ultra low-end garbage caps and/or caps that are heavily stressed due to either being under-spec'ed for the application or running hot. While nothing lasts forever well built PSUs can often out last the rest of the components in the PC (either due to their failure or obsolescence).

[stj]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

if you want to keep a psu in reserve - just in case,
power it up for a while every 6 months.

[vwtcxqdh]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

I have read few times from Stefan Payne that the FSP Hexa+ II have only one single wet cap. All other caps were dry caps.
I was not able to find out from where he got that information. I was also not able to find a picture of the inside of the FSP Hexa+ 2 PSU.
Did someone have any news about that PSU?

[budm]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

http://www.fsplifestyle.com/en/produ...Iplus500W.html

See the caps?
They would have BIG advertising if they use solid cap, it will be big marketing point.

[vwtcxqdh]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

He send me the link. It seems to be the hexa 85+ 550W version:
http://www.coolpc.com.tw/phpBB2/view...42782&p=634983

He had written before here that the Hexa+ II would (also?) have just one wet cap: http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/show...88&postcount=8

Here he is telling that the hexa 85+ is DC-DC device: http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/show...1&postcount=54

Looks like FSP is getting rid of wet caps in 2017 design also on SFX:
http://www.fsplifestyle.com/PROP164000907/
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-08/...e-quiet-fsp/2/

[budm]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

"Here he is telling that the hexa 85+ is DC-DC device: http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/show...1&postcount=54" It has AC inlet! these computer power supply takes AC and then converts to DC for SMPS that converts dc to high frequency AC and then it is rectified into DC for your required outputs. My be you should understand how SMPS works first.

[budm]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

SFX from your link: https://www.computerbase.de/2017-08/...e-quiet-fsp/2/
+12v:
Nippon Chemi-Con-Elkos (KZE series) 2 3.300 μF and 1 2.200 μF and 2 solid capacitors 330 μF.
5V:
Solid capacitors 1 560 μF and 1 330 μF
3.3V:
2 solid capacitors 560 μF
5VSB:
2 Nippon Chemi-Con-Elkos (KY series) 1,000 μF

[Per Hansson]

Re: Solid caps vs electrostatic caps (computer psu)

"Here he is telling that the hexa 85+ is DC-DC device: http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/show...1&postcount=54" It has AC inlet! these computer power supply takes AC and then converts to DC for SMPS that converts dc to high frequency AC and then it is rectified into DC for your required outputs. My be you should understand how SMPS works first.

DC-DC when discussing ATX power supplies signifies that the secondary side's topology for 3.3v and 5v is derived by DC-DC converters from the main 12v supply.
Instead of e.g. group regulation like in older units.