New electric panel.

[stj]

Re: New electric panel.

the problem, is that they either trip, or they dont.
you cant "choose" which arc's they detect and which they ignore.

that's why we dont use them in Europe.
infact the only time i ever saw one was when an inline one was sent out by microsoft so they wouldnt have to recall combusting x-boxes!

i didnt use that either - i just resoldered the x-box psu instead.

btw, boiler ignition units will probably trip them!

[kc8adu]

Re: New electric panel.

had lots of issues with afci here.
i tried a few that came with a qo panel.
rfi would trip them esp 40m at 100w.
my neighbor installed a new panel and i could trip his too.
they are far from ready for mainstream use.took em back out.
great idea thats not perfected yet.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New electric panel.

the problem, is that they either trip, or they dont.
you cant "choose" which arc's they detect and which they ignore.

that's why we dont use them in Europe.
infact the only time i ever saw one was when an inline one was sent out by microsoft so they wouldnt have to recall combusting x-boxes!

i didnt use that either - i just resoldered the x-box psu instead.

btw, boiler ignition units will probably trip them!

Stj, I don't think it's arc's that are making them trip, is it? I mean for the false trips...my understanding is the way they detect the arcs is the issue right now and there are normal circumstances that will make them think it's detected an arc. One guy was talking about how it was just random for his house. He was using his PC, nothing else, and it just tripped. He said a couple times a week they'd trip for no apparent reason and the company said they're aware of the problem and looking for a solution.

I was thinking maybe if there's a rush of current or something, they might trip. Would my BGA rework station cause them trip? It demands a good bit of power. Do vacuum cleaners still cause them to trip? From the post I read, the guy was saying it was just the Square D that he was having issues with and was going to switch to another brand. I still haven't checked, but I might not have a choice and I might have to use arc-fault breakers.

I'm really leaning towards the Square D plug-on neutral ones but if they're still a bit buggy, I don't want to drop 1,500$ or so and then find out. I don't think I'll be able to return them after installing them.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New electric panel.

had lots of issues with afci here.
i tried a few that came with a qo panel.
rfi would trip them esp 40m at 100w.
my neighbor installed a new panel and i could trip his too.
they are far from ready for mainstream use.took em back out.
great idea thats not perfected yet.

When was this? I heard they were working on getting the bugs out, but if they're not ready for mainstream yet, I do not want to use them.

Is this with all AFCIs or just the Square D that go with the QO panels? Also, what's rfi and 40m? Thanks.

[stj]

Re: New electric panel.

it wouldnt surprise me if psu PFC circuits could trip one.

[keeney123]

Re: New electric panel.

The apartment I had in Seattle had arc fault breakers. Only time one trip is when I was working on a shop vac and forgot to unplug it. I felt the surge of current then it tripped.

[Uniballer]

Re: New electric panel.

When was this? I heard they were working on getting the bugs out, but if they're not ready for mainstream yet, I do not want to use them.

You probably have no choice about using AFCI breakers if you replace the panel because the current electrical code (2014 NEC) requires them. Contact your local building inspector if you have questions about that.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New electric panel.

The apartment I had in Seattle had arc fault breakers. Only time one trip is when I was working on a shop vac and forgot to unplug it. I felt the surge of current then it tripped.

I contacted the company again and asked them about their combination arc fault breakers and explained how a couple of people said they were tripping a couple times a week. The company responded and said their products go through rigorous testing and if they're tripping, it's more than likely because of too high a load.

So, what you say here Keeney123, to me, makes sense. If I'm understanding the company correctly, there's just too many loads on a circuit. If that is correct then, I might have a real problem. We have a two story house with a full unfinished basement and an attic but only 17 circuits. Our old one story house had a heck of a lot more. Every room minus the bathrooms and kitchen have a ceiling fan and there's at least one outlet per wall. There's 8 receptacles and 7 switches just in the kitchen. We have a microwave, a natural gas stove, a dishwasher and a refrigerator in the kitchen that all use electric. There's four lights in the kitchen. One of the switches also controls the backyard light. I'm wondering if the whole kitchen is hooked just to one breaker. If it is, I bet that would be enough draw to trip a combination arc fault breaker all the time.

If it is, how do I fix that? The previous owners took down the lathe and plaster and put up drywall. When we were running the various low-voltage wires to the baby's room, the fish line or whatever it's called got stuck. We had to go into the master bedroom and cut into the lathe and plaster there (the closest still have it, drywall everywhere else though). I noticed the electrical wire for the outlet has those white plastic staples. That means when they tore down the lathe and plaster and removed the knob and tube wiring and put in the Romex, they used the plastic staples. I'm assuming they used them in every room.

If I tried running new Romex for some of the outlets / receptacles / etc, can I just pull it through or would I need to use those white plastic staples every x amount of feet? You know, so if the kitchen is all on one breaker, I could split it and maybe have it on two or three breakers...

[keeney123]

Re: New electric panel.

I contacted the company again and asked them about their combination arc fault breakers and explained how a couple of people said they were tripping a couple times a week. The company responded and said their products go through rigorous testing and if they're tripping, it's more than likely because of too high a load.

So, what you say here Keeney123, to me, makes sense. If I'm understanding the company correctly, there's just too many loads on a circuit. If that is correct then, I might have a real problem. We have a two story house with a full unfinished basement and an attic but only 17 circuits. Our old one story house had a heck of a lot more. Every room minus the bathrooms and kitchen have a ceiling fan and there's at least one outlet per wall. There's 8 receptacles and 7 switches just in the kitchen. We have a microwave, a natural gas stove, a dishwasher and a refrigerator in the kitchen that all use electric. There's four lights in the kitchen. One of the switches also controls the backyard light. I'm wondering if the whole kitchen is hooked just to one breaker. If it is, I bet that would be enough draw to trip a combination arc fault breaker all the time.

If it is, how do I fix that? The previous owners took down the lathe and plaster and put up drywall. When we were running the various low-voltage wires to the baby's room, the fish line or whatever it's called got stuck. We had to go into the master bedroom and cut into the lathe and plaster there (the closest still have it, drywall everywhere else though). I noticed the electrical wire for the outlet has those white plastic staples. That means when they tore down the lathe and plaster and removed the knob and tube wiring and put in the Romex, they used the plastic staples. I'm assuming they used them in every room.

If I tried running new Romex for some of the outlets / receptacles / etc, can I just pull it through or would I need to use those white plastic staples every x amount of feet? You know, so if the kitchen is all on one breaker, I could split it and maybe have it on two or three breakers...

If and arcing current is detected the electricity is jumping across a opening. They most likely have some time parameters that they incorporate into it to rule out a relay kicking in. I would say most of your circuits you would not have to worry about this. Perhaps heavy motor load circuits that do not have a soft start could affect this and I would say to counter this I would put a soft start on that circuit or just use a regular breaker. On a kitchen circuit I would put the microwave on one circuit, the Refrigerator on another circuit and the counter plugs on another. The gas stove you will not have to worry about. On the rest of the house I would put one 15 to 20 amp breaker per room. Each room should have a receptacle on each wall. I would run the first floor wires in the cellar on the inside of the floor joist. I would run the second floor through the attic. So you would pick a spot that is not near an opening and run the second floor wires up the first floor studs then the second floor studs and in the attic you would distribute the wires in the attic on the second floor ceiling joist and the main beam in the attic.Some people break up the overhead lights from the wall plugs. I do not think this is necessary, but I would check on the local code to see what it says. If you have like a room that is going to be for work you might run a 120 volt 15 amp circuit an 20 Amp circuit and a 220 Volt perhaps 30 amp. If you end up putting in central air I would have a 30 to 50 Amp breaker for that depending on what type of system you get.

[budm]

Re: New electric panel.

You should map out your house wring so it will make it easier to see what you have an what you will want to have.
"On a kitchen circuit I would put the microwave on one circuit, the Refrigerator on another circuit and the counter plugs on another." That is good suggestion.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: New electric panel.

You should map out your house wring so it will make it easier to see what you have an what you will want to have.
"On a kitchen circuit I would put the microwave on one circuit, the Refrigerator on another circuit and the counter plugs on another." That is good suggestion.

Budm, do you or anyone else know of any good free software to do that kinda stuff? I'll map it out on paper if I have to, but I thought it'd be nice to be able to have a digital layout of the house, with the wiring and stuff like that.

[budm]

Re: New electric panel.

You can use free schematic software for making the drawings.
http://www.digikey.com/schemeit/project/
or just search for 'free home wiring diagram software'