Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

So the cap that you tested with YOUR METER shows 0.02 Ohms. The table is just a generic which cannot be applied to just any cap, you can have two manufacturer of the same capacitance, but one can have lower or higher ESR than the other with the same capacitance. Look up some capacitor ESR spec of many manufacturers they will not be the same, some will have super low ESR, some are just low ESR. The designer of the circuit will pick the one that the circuit required. That chart is just a guide, it is not absolute values, as you can see, it is the AVERAGE value as printed on the chart.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

So the cap that you tested with YOUR METER shows 0.02 Ohms. The table is just a generic which cannot be applied to just any cap, you can have two manufacturer of the same capacitance, but one can have lower or higher ESR than the other with the same capacitance. Look up some capacitor ESR spec of many manufacturers they will not be the same, some will have super low ESR, some are just low ESR. The designer of the circuit will pick the one that the circuit required. That chart is just a guide, it is not absolute values, as you can see, it is the AVERAGE value as printed on the chart.

No ...

I have EVB ESR @ 100 KHz .... the reference table:

http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/images/meter2.jpg
and
http://bootmylaptop.com/wp-content/u...1/ESRTable.jpg


ST5 test @ 100 Hz, 120 Hz, 1KHz, 10 KHz
So the values are different for different Hz.

When we have a cap .... the value is different .... if is good or bad but good is around the table.

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

" if is good or bad but good is around the table" No, it will be based on the capacitor manufacturer spec, what you read on your meter and what the spec shows will tell you if that cap went out off spec or not.
All I can say is, if your tools are good enough to aid you on locating and verifying bad components then use them, if not and you need better equipment then buy them, a lot of them also have to do with your experience, I have been doing it for 40 years.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

... a lot of them also have to do with your experience, I have been doing it for 40 years.

And I thank you for your comments and in next 40 and more years help me and the others users in this forum.

Please answer my questions,
Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

""Checking Capacitance S. Diodes and T."
Bad or good we use DMM in Ohm ... and check short ???" I have no idea what the heck that means.
Here is example of real world repair, the diode tested good with Ohm mode and Diode mode, but sine the meter does not put out the same working voltage as the parts are operating in, my LC75 current leakage test found two out of 4 diode in the bridge are bad.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...613#post456613
You know Ohms Law, right? you know the applied voltage to the device and you know how much current is flowing through the device, then you can calculate the resistance.

http://electronicdesign.com/analog/w...e-stuff-anyhow
http://www.analog.com/library/analog...ersary/21.html

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

At certain point I'm talking about LC 77.

But you have an LC75 ~ LC 53 with some extras.

And my questions ( Manual, page numbers ) related LC77.


BTW you have any analog meter or no use in your bench?

Best Regards,
Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

I do not have LC77 manual and never use LC77 so I cannot tell what it says in the manual.
"BTW you have any analog meter or no use in your bench?" Yes, I have SIMSON 260 that have not been using for years.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

I do not have LC77 manual and never use LC77 so I cannot tell what it says in the manual.
"BTW you have any analog meter or no use in your bench?" Yes, I have SIMSON 260 that have not been using for years.

Best regards,
Neuron

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"In LC77 pag. 26 for ex. 330 uF, 35 V ESR is 1,01 Ohm
But I have a EVB ESR and the val. is 0,1 Ohm
The freq. is different?" I do not see how you can compare the example to what you are reading without actually measure the actual same cap with two instrument. The LC automatically adjust the frequency apply to the cap being test.

In a Tec. Paper from Sencore:

" ... The Z METERS simply charge the
capacitor, while measuring the rise in
voltage during the first microsecond after
applying the voltage. The instantaneous
v o l t a g e s t e p c a l c u l a t e s d i r e c t l y t o
resistance using normal voltage-dividing
formulas. Sencore has been granted a
patent on this test. ..."

They don't use freq. ... only charge.



In your test you can test ESR in Circuit?

Best Regards,
Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"" ... The Z METERS simply charge the
capacitor, while measuring the rise in
voltage during the first microsecond after
applying the voltage. The instantaneous
v o l t a g e s t e p c a l c u l a t e s d i r e c t l y t o
resistance using normal voltage-dividing
formulas. Sencore has been granted a
patent on this test. ..."
Where is the whole context of the above?
What test function is this regarding to? Leakage resistance, ESR?
"They don't use freq. ... only charge." Which model is this method being used in?
Read how your Smart Tweezer read measures the capacitance and the ESR. Do you know how your Smart twerzer work? Any tech paper?
Why don't you research on how the capacitance are measuredand how ESR are measured.

"In your test you can test ESR in Circuit?" SENCORE also indicated that it is designed to give accurate reading value out off the circuits.
I do not use in circuit testing, I am not that lazy to do proper test. How do you know which cap is bad when they have a bunch of them connected in parallel, plus the other devices connected in parallel with them as well. Do some experiment and find out for yourself.
What do you think you are going to see when there is bleeder resistor in parallel with the cap, it will show as fail leakage test.
Think about it when trying to measure a bunch of caps in parallel, how can you tell which one is bad using the meter?
Why don't you do this, put 4 caps in parallel, then put a piece of wire to short out this set of caps to simulate one shorted cap, now tell me how you can tell which cap is shorted out using your Smart Tweezer in circuit testing mode.
Did you do any test experiment and actual testing of components in the REAL WORLD yet using what you have?

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

May be you do not understand the limitation of the test equipment of what it can do and cannot do. You can buy the most expensive equipment but if you do not know how to use it properly or know its limitation then it will be useless. Try to understand the basic first.

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"They don't use freq. ... only charge." and the point is???/
Some ESR may use 120HZ and 100KHz (most commonly use in the spec of the cap), or more frequencies than those two, some may auto adj the frequency, some may use square wave, some may use Sine wave, etc.

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

BTW, here is the block diagram of the LC-75 in my service manual, as you can see, there are PULSE GENERATORS (3) for the ESR measurement circuits.
May be you should see if they will provide you with the service manual for your Super Tweezer if it needs to be calibrated as needed.

[Agent24]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

Troubleshooting and repair,
any advant. buy Blue Ring Tester VS ST?

I would lean towards the Blue Ring tester, but the Smart tweezers would be useful to measure unmarked inductors (though, how often does that happen?)

However, since the Blue Ring tester schematic is all over the internet, you could make one yourself very cheaply, and buy the Smart tweezers and have both. Why not anyway?

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

Hi,

I have a Smart Tweezers (ST).

I can test Q and measure inductance.

And < .3 miliHenry -> nanoHenrys



Troubleshooting and repair,
any advant. buy Blue Ring Tester VS ST?

Best Regards,
Neuron

He already has the tweezers.

[Agent24]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

Whoops, must have missed that part.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"" ... The Z METERS simply charge the
capacitor, while measuring the rise in
voltage during the first microsecond after
applying the voltage. The instantaneous
v o l t a g e s t e p c a l c u l a t e s d i r e c t l y t o
resistance using normal voltage-dividing
formulas. Sencore has been granted a
patent on this test. ..."
Where is the whole context of the above?
What test function is this regarding to? Leakage resistance, ESR?
"They don't use freq. ... only charge." Which model is this method being used in?
Read how your Smart Tweezer read measures the capacitance and the ESR. Do you know how your Smart twerzer work? Any tech paper?
Why don't you research on how the capacitance are measuredand how ESR are measured.

"In your test you can test ESR in Circuit?" SENCORE also indicated that it is designed to give accurate reading value out off the circuits.
I do not use in circuit testing, I am not that lazy to do proper test. How do you know which cap is bad when they have a bunch of them connected in parallel, plus the other devices connected in parallel with them as well. Do some experiment and find out for yourself.
What do you think you are going to see when there is bleeder resistor in parallel with the cap, it will show as fail leakage test.
Think about it when trying to measure a bunch of caps in parallel, how can you tell which one is bad using the meter?
Why don't you do this, put 4 caps in parallel, then put a piece of wire to short out this set of caps to simulate one shorted cap, now tell me how you can tell which cap is shorted out using your Smart Tweezer in circuit testing mode.
Did you do any test experiment and actual testing of components in the REAL WORLD yet using what you have?

Since you quote my msg:
_________________________________________________
Originally Posted by budm View Post
"In LC77 pag. 26 for ex. 330 uF, 35 V ESR is 1,01 Ohm
But I have a EVB ESR and the val. is 0,1 Ohm
__________________________________________________

ESR

And this is the tec. detail:

The Z METERS simply charge the
capacitor, while measuring the rise in
voltage during the first microsecond after
applying the voltage.





I know ST5 use a Sine wave with several Freq.

I don't need to research .... its in Manual.


In circuit .... in the first stage ... if there is > 1 (Cap) ... it give error. 0 or something near zero.

I have a SS1 Satellite. board with 1 Cap ... 330 uF with 1,5 Ohm

We see this is wrong ....

Regards,

Neuron

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

I would lean towards the Blue Ring tester, but the Smart tweezers would be useful to measure unmarked inductors (though, how often does that happen?)

However, since the Blue Ring tester schematic is all over the internet, you could make one yourself very cheaply, and buy the Smart tweezers and have both. Why not anyway?

And Q for Ind. and D for Caps?

Regards,
Neuron

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

BTW, here is the block diagram of the LC-75 in my service manual, as you can see, there are PULSE GENERATORS (3) for the ESR measurement circuits.
May be you should see if they will provide you with the service manual for your Super Tweezer if it needs to be calibrated as needed.

The tec. paper:

"" ... The Z METERS simply charge the
capacitor, while measuring the rise in
voltage during the first microsecond after
applying the voltage. The instantaneous
v o l t a g e s t e p c a l c u l a t e s d i r e c t l y t o
resistance using normal voltage-dividing
formulas.

Sencore has been granted a
patent on this test. ..."

They also comment in this paper,
the Questions from users about freq. and they explain they don't use.

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

Show me the link to this so called Tech paper
"The tec. paper:

"" ... The Z METERS simply charge the
capacitor, while measuring the rise in
voltage during the first microsecond after
applying the voltage. The instantaneous
v o l t a g e s t e p c a l c u l a t e s d i r e c t l y t o
resistance using normal voltage-dividing
formulas. " Sencore has been granted a
patent on this test. ..."

So the point is??? So what???
We are going in circle here. Are you going to use your tools to troubleshoot the problems or just want to have tools but really do not know how to use them properly.

Like I asked, which model is this applied too, the newer version? you already see the block diagram of my LC75 showing PULSE GENERATORS.
I also asked you to provide the link so I can read the whole context not just a snippet of what you show.

"In circuit .... in the first stage ... if there is > 1 (Cap) ... it give error. 0 or something near zero.

I have a SS1 Satellite. board with 1 Cap ... 330 uF with 1,5 Ohm

We see this is wrong ..."
That is why you do not test or verify the the components that are still connected to other circuit in the board. In circuit is not reliable. So what more do you need. Why do keep asking if the tool can be used for in circuit testing, you already know the answer.

Read this: http://geoffg.net/Measuring_ESR.html
"I used a function generator to generate narrow pulses (1µS wide) with a slow repetition rate (1KHz). This drove a voltage divider with the test capacitor in the bottom leg and 100Ω in the top leg. Because of the narrow pulse, the capacitor did not have enough time to build up a charge, so the voltage across it represented the voltage drop caused by its ESR."
You must be joking with all these repetitive questions.