Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

[neuron]

Hi,

I have a Smart Tweezers (ST).

I can test Q and measure inductance.

And < .3 miliHenry -> nanoHenrys



Troubleshooting and repair,
any advant. buy Blue Ring Tester VS ST?

Best Regards,
Neuron

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

Hi,

I have a Smart Tweezers (ST).

I can test Q and measure inductance.

And < .3 miliHenry -> nanoHenrys



Troubleshooting and repair,
any advant. buy Blue Ring Tester VS ST?

Anyone with LCR and Blue Ring?

I need to add Blue Ring to my set of tools?

Best Regards,
Neuron

[stj]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

i have stainless-steel tweezers.

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

Blue ring/ringer is for testing the inductor or transformer winding to see if it has shorted turn or not, so reading inductance alone will not tell you if it has shorted turn or not. I use SENCORE LC-75.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

Blue ring/ringer is for testing the inductor or transformer winding to see if it has shorted turn or not, so reading inductance alone will not tell you if it has shorted turn or not. I use SENCORE LC-75.

Thank you one more time for your valuable time and wisdom.

Please read the Ring Manual:

" ... This ring tester is an inexpensive and effective
way to test any high Q inductive component ... "

" ... The LEDs on the left side show the Q of the
device being tested, more lights = higher Q, i. e.,
no lights = short circuit, red = Bad or low Q,
yellow = ??? or medium Q, green = Good or
high Q.... "

And with the ST5 I can measure the Q with more range.


But with SENCORE LC-75 - you only read Inductance?


Best Regards,
Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"But with SENCORE LC-75 - you only read Inductance?"
No, it can read Cap leakage current, capacitance, Cap's ESR, Inductance, ringer test.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/370891167122?lpid=82

.
ST5 is an LCR meter and more expensive than the blue ring which does not read inductance, mostly used for testing for shorted turn.
I do not know what the ST5 will show if the inductor or the transformer will show if it has shorted turn.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"But with SENCORE LC-75 - you only read Inductance?"
No, it can read Cap leakage current, capacitance, Cap's ESR, Inductance, ringer test.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/370891167122?lpid=82

.
ST5 is an LCR meter and more expensive than the blue ring which does not read inductance, mostly used for testing for shorted turn.
I do not know what the ST5 will show if the inductor or the transformer will show if it has shorted turn.

In pag. 30 of SENCORE LC-77 Manual:

"Good/Bad Testing"
1º - The Ring test is "Q" - Quality Factor
Same in ST5.

2º - " ... compares the actual measured value of an inductor to a user - entered value and tolerance ... "
And I can read and compare in ST5.

And another feature in ST5, I can measure the D - Dissipation Factor in Caps.
We don't need tables like ESR ... most Elect. 0,0xxx and paper - 0,00x

I can measure Z, ESR, R, R - DC

Best Regards,
Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

LC75 manual page 31:
CHECKING INDUCTORS FOR GOOD OR BAD WITH THE RINGING TEST:
The LC75 Ringing test measures the "Q" factor by applying a reference pulse to the coil and then digitally counting the number of ringing cycles produced until the signal is damped to a preset level. A shorted turn in a coil will lower is Q and cause the ringing to dampen faster than the good coil. An open coil will show no ringing.
While the patented Sancore Ringing test is based on the Q of the coil, the reading on the "Z METER 2" often will not agree with those obtained with a bridge or a Q meter. The reason is simply that the LC75 "Q" test has been simplfied to make the number 10 a reference point.
The ringer test is also should not be use on coil or transformer having laminated core such as power transformer. Good coil below 10uH may not ring 10 cycles, comparison test should be made. Some coil above 10uH may not show 10 or more rings. These may show 8 or 9 rings and still be good. The quality of these coil may be confirmed by adding a "shorted turn" and rechecking the the ringing of the coil. If the coil is bad, the number of ring will not change or change very little. If the ringing drops off drastically then the coil is good.

So it takes some build up of data when you work on testing the suspect bad inductor/transformer to know what you expect using the ringing test to verify bad bad inductor/transfomer. I never use the ST stuff so I cannot tell you if it will serve your purpose of or not, or what you in the tool you are looking for to locate and verify bad components. I use LC75 for verifying bad flyback transformer in CRT TV.
So when you get your ST, you can do lots of experiment to find what it can do and cannot do in the real world since you will not always have the spec of the components you are testing and that is the key in troubleshooting. It is easy to do comprison testing if you do have many parts in stock and can afford to have then in stock to compare them, in the real world it gets very expensive.
One thing I like about the LC75 is that you can apply the working voltage to the cap, using low voltage testing may not cause the cap to breakdown during test.
I ran into MLCC testing fine when I was looking for leakage using Ohm meter, but using LC75 at 25V rating of the cap, it shows very high leaking current.
The bottom line is, the test equipment meets your requirement or not on what you are trying to do with it. Try simulating shorted turn to see what the ST will show, once you establish what you will see when trying to identify bad inductor/transformer, then you will not need the ringer tester. Get bad cap with leakage (or add difference value resistor in parallel) and see what it will show.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

...
I ran into MLCC testing fine when I was looking for leakage using Ohm meter, but using LC75 at 25V rating of the cap, it shows very high leaking current.
The bottom line is, the test equipment meets your requirement or not on what you are trying to do with it. Try simulating shorted turn to see what the ST will show, once you establish what you will see when trying to identify bad inductor/transformer, then you will not need the ringer tester. Get bad cap with leakage (or add difference value resistor in parallel) and see what it will show.

Thank you for your comments.

That's I tested so far ... with good and bad equip.
Yes we get different values with short ... and good ones.

With caps I get different values - D.

Please explain ... more detail - 2 procedures:

1 - " ... leakage using Ohm meter ... "

2 - " ... Get bad cap with leakage (or add difference value resistor in parallel) and see what it will show. ..."

Best regards,

Neuron

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

Thank you for your comments.

That's I tested so far ... with good and bad equip.
Yes we get different values with short ... and good ones.

With caps I get different values - D.

Since I can't edit:


Please explain ... more detail - 2 procedures:

1 - " ... leakage using Ohm meter ... "
You can only check short ....???

2 - " ... Get bad cap with leakage (or add difference value resistor in parallel) and see what it will show. ..."

Best regards,

Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

You can simulate bad capacitor that will allow DC current to flow through it (no longer blocking DC) by connecting a resistor (I.E. 100K, 500K, 1M Ohms) in parallel with the capacitor being test to see what your meter will still show the cap as good or bad.
Cap with leakage can cause problem, for example the coupling capacitor between two audio stages, the leakage will cause bias problem for the transistor biasing, or cause OP Amp to have bad DC offset at the output.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

You can simulate bad capacitor that will allow DC current to flow through it (no longer blocking DC) by connecting a resistor (I.E. 100K, 500K, 1M Ohms) in parallel with the capacitor being test to see what your meter will still show the cap as good or bad.
Cap with leakage can cause problem, for example the coupling capacitor between two audio stages, the leakage will cause bias problem for the transistor biasing, or cause OP Amp to have bad DC offset at the output.

Thank very much for your comments.

Ex. 470 uF, 120 uF in parallel with 100K, 500K or 1M Ohm
Z, ESR, R -> 0,xxx Ohm or D, Cap.
don't add anything.

Only if I use a 300 Ohm or lower.
Without the parallel R. the D = 0,05xx
and adding a parallel Resist. I get 0,1xxxx.

Next test:
https://www.angelfire.com/electronic...ting_caps.html


Best regards,

Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"Ex. 470 uF, 120 uF
Z, ESR, R -> 0,xxx Ohm in parallel with 100K, 500K or 1M Ohm
don't add anything." That is why you need to be able to do current leakage test, as I indicate, leaky cap will affect the operation of the circuit, especially the one in high Z circuit.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"Ex. 470 uF, 120 uF
Z, ESR, R -> 0,xxx Ohm in parallel with 100K, 500K or 1M Ohm
don't add anything." That is why you need to be able to do current leakage test, as I indicate, leaky cap will affect the operation of the circuit, especially the one in high Z circuit.

Yes
Sencore LC77 Pag. 20 -> Current or Pag. 24 -> Ohms



And I can use
Power Supply -> Cap. -> DMM (Ampere) --
|__________________________________|
using the Volts printed in Cap.???
or
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/...ting_caps.html

Best Regards

Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

Yes
Sencore LC77 Pag. 20 -> Current or Pag. 24 -> Ohms



And I can use
Power Supply -> Cap. -> DMM (Ampere) --
|__________________________________|
using the Volts printed in Cap.???
or
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/...ting_caps.html

Best Regards

Neuron

Of cousce, you can use all kind of your own setup to test the components. Nothing to stop you as long as you know what you are looking for. So just buy or build what you think it will suit your needs and carry them with you when you are out the field service. You can also modify that circuit in the link to test the Zener voltage and breakdown voltage of unknown devices.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

...You can also modify that circuit in the link to test the Zener voltage and breakdown voltage of unknown devices.

Thank you,



If other user can add a circuit, please.

Best regards,
Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

BTW, to make that circuit more usable with difference cap voltages, you can use VARIAC to vary the AC voltage feeding the transformer, as the output voltage becomes variable then it will serve the purpose of testing break down voltage and finding Zener voltage of unknown Zener Diode, adding various for current limiter resistor selector will also make it more useful. Just think of what the requirement you need then you can come up with the solution, experiment with circuit will also help you building your knowledge. Hands on experiment is always a good thing.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

BTW, to make that circuit more usable with difference cap voltages, you can use VARIAC to vary the AC voltage feeding the transformer, as the output voltage becomes variable then it will serve the purpose of testing break down voltage and finding Zener voltage of unknown Zener Diode, adding various for current limiter resistor selector will also make it more useful. Just think of what the requirement you need then you can come up with the solution, experiment with circuit will also help you building your knowledge. Hands on experiment is always a good thing.

Thank you,


In LC77 pag. 26 for ex. 330 uF, 35 V ESR is 1,01 Ohm
But I have a EVB ESR and the val. is 0,1 Ohm
The freq. is different?

For this 330uF - 35 V the leakage is < 38 uA
If you select Ohms what value ?
Or other cap you have.

In pag. 50:
Intermittent Capacitors - I use sometimes this advise.

"Checking Capacitance S. Diodes and T."
Bad or good we use DMM in Ohm ... and check short ???

Best Regards,
Neuron

[budm]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"In LC77 pag. 26 for ex. 330 uF, 35 V ESR is 1,01 Ohm
But I have a EVB ESR and the val. is 0,1 Ohm
The freq. is different?" I do not see how you can compare the example to what you are reading without actually measure the actual same cap with two instrument. The LC automatically adjust the frequency apply to the cap being test.

[neuron]

Re: Smart Tweezers (ST5) or Blue Ring Tester

"In LC77 pag. 26 for ex. 330 uF, 35 V ESR is 1,01 Ohm
But I have a EVB ESR and the val. is 0,1 Ohm
The freq. is different?" I do not see how you can compare the example to what you are reading without actually measure the actual same cap with two instrument. The LC automatically adjust the frequency apply to the cap being test.

Please read:

"In LC77 pag. 26 for ex. 330 uF, 35 V ESR is 1,01 Ohm
But I have a EVB ESR and the val. is 0,1 Ohm
The freq. is different?"

The table as a reference is different ... the values in the table

http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/images/meter2.jpg
and
http://bootmylaptop.com/wp-content/u...1/ESRTable.jpg

330 uF ... example



If possible I would like your comment:

Pag. 23 - Table
For this 330uF - 35 V the leakage is < 645 uA
If you select Ohms what value ?
Or other cap you have.

In pag. 50:
Intermittent Capacitors - I use sometimes this advice.

"Checking Capacitance S. Diodes and T."
Bad or good, we use DMM in Ohm ... and check short ???

Best Reg,
Neuron