time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

[larrymoencurly]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

The Hakko 936.

You just can't get REAL temperature regulation unless you have a remotely mounted base station.

http://hakkousa.com/products.asp?CID=49,112

Why is a remote base station required for temperature regulation? This iron does it without one. At $50, it's cheaper than the Hakko 936 but can put out more power, 70W vs. 50W:

http://www.goot.co.jp/e/detail.html

[Krankshaft]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

You need a base station to house a step down transformer. Good stations step down line voltage, rectify, filter, regulate, and THEN use that stable reference to control the element temperature.

The unit you listed which I wouldn't even call truly temperature regulated. Uses the inferior method of chopping the AC wave with a triac. Those irons tend to be thicker since they must cram all of the circuitry into the handle. Not to mention the compromises in circuit design due to the tight space.

The triac method is okay where tight accuracy isn't needed like soldering guns for example.

I like the thin pencil like feel of the Hakko rather than the fat crayon feeling of less expensive triac irons.

While on the topic of wattage as PC said before 70 Watts is INPUT power (power consumption from the outlet) not output power at the tip. This power will be consumed by the regulation circuitry there will also be losses through the circuit components.

[stj]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

i dont like that hakko, i want my base units to have a temperature readout.

want to see an amazing bargain in europe?
go here:
http://www.farnell.com
and type this number into the search box.
1737234

and yes, it can come with a schuko plug.
and yes it's chinese but they are reliable - i have 2.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

Why is a remote base station required for temperature regulation? This iron does it without one. At $50, it's cheaper than the Hakko 936 but can put out more power, 70W vs. 50W:

http://www.goot.co.jp/e/detail.html

Didn't we just go over this 3 days ago?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...0&postcount=11
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...8&postcount=12

And no, it's not likely 'regulated'.
The -adjustment- is probably just a pot where as the base station types use an actual regulator FETs or MOSFETs or something similar that would give off enough heat to melt the handle on that thing.

That does not mean it doesn't work well, probably works great, but it just isn't the same class of tool.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

i dont like that hakko, i want my base units to have a temperature readout.

want to see an amazing bargain in europe?
go here:
http://www.farnell.com
and type this number into the search box.
1737234

and yes, it can come with a schuko plug.
and yes it's chinese but they are reliable - i have 2.

Other than the color that unit is identical to one Radioshack used to sell.

There are Hakkos with temp read-outs but to me it is a worthless feature.
On a 926/936 you dial in the temp you want and the indicator light tells you when it's there.
[Which with a new element takes like 10-20 seconds.]

Hakko 937 is basically a 936 with a read-out.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

This place has three different brands of Hakko knock-off that aren't too bad according to members that have tried them.
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/9258
- And, they have most of the replacement parts you might need for them...

[stj]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

the hakko works like my old weller,
i like to digitally set my temps though.
my usual temp is 365'c - that does unleaded soldering and most desoldering without any problems.

[stj]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

that farnell pack is amazing btw, £30 for an iron/base that normally goes for more, an £18 reel of solder and a £5 tip cleaner.

me thinks they overstocked!!!

[PCBONEZ]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

that farnell pack is amazing btw, £30 for an iron/base that normally goes for more, an £18 reel of solder and a £5 tip cleaner.

me thinks they overstocked!!!

Me thinks Radioshack dropped the product [because they did] and Farnell got a good deal at the fire sale.
.

[stj]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

no, these are 230v and not marked RS/Tandy anywhere.
i do see them with other names - there must be a factory in china running them out 24/7

[PCBONEZ]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

no, these are 230v and not marked RS/Tandy anywhere.
i do see them with other names - there must be a factory in china running them out 24/7

I think you missed the point.
I'm saying the manufacturer of that thing lost their biggest buyer.
.
The RS/Tandy marks go on just like the 'other' names.
Know that little 115v-230v switch on the back of older PSUs?
They can do that on a PCB too and change the cord.
.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

Didn't we just go over this 3 days ago?

Yes, but I didn't the right information until today.

And no, it's not likely 'regulated'.
The -adjustment- is probably just a pot where as the base station types use an actual regulator FETs or MOSFETs or something similar that would give off enough heat to melt the handle on that thing.

That does not mean it doesn't work well, probably works great, but it just isn't the same class of tool.

The information at the company's website indicates it really is temperature controlled, not just power adjustable:

"Temperature Setting Range 250-450ºC
Temperature Control System Sensor Feedback ( ON-OFF Control)"

I think a temperature controller could easily fit in the handle because I have a 10-60W (total power consumption) power adjustable (not temperature regulated) iron with a simple triac controller and digital display:



The handle seems thinner than the Goot's, and it stays cool at all power settings. The triac is a 2N6075A (600V, 4A, 10W) that's not fastened to the circuit board (barely touches the copper), so it must not dissipate much (1W max, assuming 2V drop?) The display doesn't show actual power but just selects 10/20/30/40/50/60W (readings agree closely with Kill-A-Watt).

[Krankshaft]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

That adjustable power scheme is nothing new.

I remember the cheap Radioshack irons that were 20 or 40 watt selectable. At 40 watts the element got full wave AC when you flipped the switch to 20 watts it just put a diode in circuit that chopped half of the AC wave off. Simple and effective that's how simple it is to change wattage.

To have more steps again the triac circuitry is minimal.

Regulating temperature is a more complex issue requiring much more circuitry and is best done with a low voltage DC PWM scheme not a triac at line voltage.

[stj]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

I think you missed the point.
I'm saying the manufacturer of that thing lost their biggest buyer.
.
The RS/Tandy marks go on just like the 'other' names.
Know that little 115v-230v switch on the back of older PSUs?
They can do that on a PCB too and change the cord.
.

could be the mfr shifting stock,
but there is no voltage switch and the transformer only has one primary.
i know this because i opened it to replace the black power switch with one that has a neon in it.
(i like illuminated power switches.)

more likely the chinese are just banging them out so fast that they can wholesale for $5-10.
i was looking at some bulk pricing on pc stuff the other day at Alibaba and it's pretty amazing how cheap they can make stuff.

[Kmcodonald22]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

I have a Weller WTCPS that I bought in 1995. It has been a great soldering iron for single and double sided boards, but won't work at all on a motherboard. It's 42 watts and has an 800 degree tip. I'm also looking for a new soldering station that will actually melt the solder on a motherboard and a vacuum desoldering station. I used to have a Pace vacuum desoldering station until the heating element wires broke and I was unable to repair it. It is obsolete and there are no parts for it. I saw the recomendations for soldering irons, but does anyone have a suggestion for a decent inexpensive vacuum desoldering station?

Thanks.

[mathog]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

I saw the recomendations for soldering irons, but does anyone have a suggestion for a decent inexpensive vacuum desoldering station?

Unfortunately "decent inexpensive vacuum desoldering station" is either an oxymoron or a reflection of a very fat wallet.

I have been looking into this too. For double sided boards, but not motherboards, the cheapo Radio Shack desoldering iron works very well.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062731

The Hakko 808 looks nice:

http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=838&Page=1

but I don't know if it will work on a motherboard. It isn't a station, just a standalone gun. List is $210., seen it on Amazon for $180. Not exactly cheap, but far less than the goot TP100as at around $345

http://www.howardelectronics.com/goot/tp100as.html

The cheapest desoldering station I have seen advertised is the Aoyue 474A+:

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Des...m_cr_pr_sims_t

The same company also makes a combined solder/desolder Aoyue 701A+:

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Function.../dp/B000KSRS9S

where you would get parts for these if they broke I have no idea. Well I do, but not speaking Mandarin, I don't think it would be easy for me. There is an aoyue.com, but I was not able to connect to it.

Wait, Toasty in this forum posted a link to a similar machine:

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/7789

and actually bought the desoldering (only) station:

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9750

Maybe Toasty will tell us if this will work on a motherboard?

Once you start looking at name brand desoldering stations the price goes up fast. For instance Xytronics LF6000

http://www.howardelectronics.com/xytronic/lf6000.html

One of several Hakko's

http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bi.../Hakko-472D-01

Weller has several, but most need compressed air to drive the vacuum pump, so I didn't bother pricing them.

[Kmcodonald22]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

Thanks Mathog,

I am definitely looking for a vacuum desoldering station for computer motherboards. My Pace bit the dust the first time I recapped a motherboard and I bought a gas powered soldering iron to finish the job. I have recapped four motherboards so far. All I was supposed to do was put a bigger hard drive in the last one and then I saw ten capacitors that were bulging and leaking. If I'm going to continue to repair computers, I'm going to have to spend whatever it takes to have tools that are going to hold up. I can't continue with a gas powered soldering iron and a solder sucker. I have to heat the solder joint up and inch the capacitor out and then suck the solder out of the hole.

Ken

[yyonline]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

I highly recommend the Hakko 808. I have the 1.0mm tip, which works great for capacitor work. I also have some larger tips for use with bigger stuff...PS2 ports and such. Only downside to the 808 is that you have to clean it fairly often or it gets clogged. I can remove every capacitor on a motherboard in under 5 minutes...probably less, but I like to take my time and be careful...it's a great tool to have.

[Toasty]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

@mathog -
I was asked a similar question you PM'd me about, and here's my response:

<snip>
I got the BK4000:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9750

and the CSI 825A++ :
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/7343

Both perform well for what I do. I don't think the parts interchange with Hakko.

Purchase was based on price difference, $100 vs. $600+ for comparable Hakko. Yes, I know it's Chinese crap, but it works good and saves me time.

The hot air rework comes with 4 nozzles and they have a pile (46) of specialty ones also. A spare heater element is a good idea if you are a heavy user.

The desoldering station has 3 tips and accessories. I recommend buying additional tips, coil filters, and a spare heating element up front 1) to save on shipping and 2) the 'Oh Crap!' moment when the heater burns out. I've torn up the largest tip (1.5mm) fairly well after 8 months.

See this thread: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8160

Also, Aoyue is basically the same as CSI's. Branded for whoever.
"We make you special deal..."

Good Hunting!

That being said, I think the all-in-one Hakko is too heavy if you are doing a lot of work. Here and there for 5 minutes, it seems a great tool. I suffer with Carpal Tunnel and pinched nerves in my neck. Anything of weight that I use in my hands turns them numb or causes severe pain. It picks it's days as to which.

As for motherboard work, it depends on the board. Some it works well with and others I resort to a large tipped soldering iron. There must be clearance around the component lead(s) for the vacuum units to work well. Via's can be damned close in tolerance to the leads and there just isn't enough room to get the solder out. Caps can be pulled down fairly tight on their bungs and sometimes "gooped-in" caps prevent air passage. It would be similar to taking a vacuum cleaner hose to your skin. The suction is wonderful, but there is no air movement.

The supplied smallest tip is the least used. I prefer the largest tip and the medium has it's times. With mobo work, you need heat and a lot of it concentrated at the component lead. This is where the larger tip really pans out.

The medium tip works good on single-sided boards or double ones without huge "heat sink" traces, such as you would have on a mobo VRM. Those areas are strictly the biggest tip's area or the soldering iron.

I am very pleased with the units performance, and I have come to grips with its' limitations. If you have enough of the right tools, you'll get the job done.

Toast

[stj]

Re: time to ditch my $20 25w iron and get sumpin' REAL!!!

if you have a decent desoldering unit like a pace,
find out a few things,
1: is it a thermocouple - generates voltage, or is it a thermister - changes resistance.
2: what voltage is the element.

with this info you could fit a new head from a different model or company.