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Old 03-12-2011, 08:07 PM   #21
Salamander
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

Ok, after weeks of practicing desoldering with sucker-braid-needle unsuccessfully, I'm thinking of going for this:

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10146

I'm pretty sure this will get the job done fast and with little or no skills needed. My only question is...am I better off spending $89 for this or buying a new motherboard, case, cpu cooler, and a new operating system all for just under $250? With a new LGA775 mobo, I can still salvage the cpu, ram, power supply and hard/optical drives from the old PC.

If I choose to recap, it will certainly save me $250 in the short term. But will it save me the time and aggravation if something else would fail?
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:25 AM   #22
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

It takes a few attempts to build up soldering skills. I'd see if you can find some junk boards to practice on. Ask around - a lot of people have a clunker PC sitting in their garage or closet somewhere. Once you figure out how to do it, then work on your board. For a first time repair, I wouldn't practice on the board you're trying to repair. There's too much risk of damaging something further. When I started out doing soldering work, it took me a few tries. At first it was very frustrating. I kept at it, and I eventually had an "ah ha" moment where everything clicked. It's all about technique, and once you figure it out, it becomes simple pretty quickly.

Now, I've recapped boards with nothing more than a $30 soldering iron and a dental pick. I have better stuff I use in the shop, but for field repairs I can't drag all that around. Sure, the fancy equipment does the job faster, but unless you plan on doing soldering work frequently, it's not necessary for a one-off repair.

Just not getting the hang of it? The site's owner (Topcat on the forum), offers capacitor replacement services at reasonable rates (less than the price of your proposed desoldering station).

Repair or replace is your call. Most people on here would say to repair the system. Properly done, you should have a reliable system once more. Then again, this is a forum full of people who repair electronics, so perhaps we're biased toward that.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:43 AM   #23
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamander View Post
Switching gears, when putting molten solder into a hole during cap installation, will it flow through the other side of the hole and touch or perhaps melt the plastic base of the capacitor?
It's not plastic, it's rubber.
And you WANT it to flow through the holes.
Some of the connections are in between the layers of the board.
.

IMHO You have better odds of long term reliability with a properly rebuilt board than you do of achieving the same with a new mail-order board.
New boards can be a craps shoot because what [caps] you see in the photo isn't always what you get.
- But nothing is certain either way.

If you are not comfortable doing a recap then either have someone else do it or go with a new board.

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Old 03-13-2011, 09:25 AM   #24
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

Yyonline:

Thanks for the advice. I'll give myself another shot at this and hopefully I'll be more patient this time.


PCBonez:

Luckily I found this illustration last week:

http://www.circuitmedic.com/guides/5-3.shtml

Note the inner layer traces are already attached to the plated hole. Don't you think it's no longer necessary to fill it completely with solder?

Just another thought. If a cap fails, the next in line would likely be a MOSFET (as Seanc pointed out). How would you know if a transistor has failed? Are there visual signs? If it fails, does it end there or will it affect other components as well? Is it going to be easy to replace a MOSFET?
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:57 AM   #25
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

If a mosfet fails, it may do it quietly or you may smell it and it may well crack/pop the mosfet casing. Then your PC won't work.

Removing/replacing those mosfets is not particularly easy.

It's been nearly a month since you started this thread. You're still running on borrowed time.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:54 PM   #26
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

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ASUS build quality isn't brilliant, they do use bad cap brands/models (like KZG). Some ASUS boards just die for no reason, their RMA service is very difficult to use.

Gigabyte for the most part use solid polymer japanese caps, if you do have an issue, their RMA service is excellent. Where they do use aluminium electrolytic, they're usually Nichion.

I've tried Foxconn, ASUS, Abit, Intel and I always go back to Gigabyte because they're more reliable and just work out of the box. Shipped hundreds of machines and in the last 3 years I can count the failures on my hands.
woah woah woah, asus has been good lately, sure a few years ago thier quality blew, but now they're making up for it. last dead asus I saw was a A8N-E

gigabyte is good too
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:00 AM   #27
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamander View Post
Yyonline:

Thanks for the advice. I'll give myself another shot at this and hopefully I'll be more patient this time.


PCBonez:

Luckily I found this illustration last week:

http://www.circuitmedic.com/guides/5-3.shtml

Note the inner layer traces are already attached to the plated hole. Don't you think it's no longer necessary to fill it completely with solder?

Just another thought. If a cap fails, the next in line would likely be a MOSFET (as Seanc pointed out). How would you know if a transistor has failed? Are there visual signs? If it fails, does it end there or will it affect other components as well? Is it going to be easy to replace a MOSFET?
Fill the hole.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:03 PM   #28
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

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woah woah woah, asus has been good lately, sure a few years ago thier quality blew, but now they're making up for it. last dead asus I saw was a A8N-E

gigabyte is good too
I've got P5N-E SLI with a dead northbridge.
P5L-VM 1394 littered with KZG. KZG are no good.
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:49 PM   #29
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

some blame can be laid with the Nvidia chips used during these days. I've seen HP, Gateway boards with these chips do the same thing. But asus is part to blame as to HP for not using good enough cooling

yes, asus boards of this era had KZG's and suffered. but newer asus boards are using polys around the VRM, but yeah still on occassion have KZG's for the smaller caps, but i've even seen gigabytes with cheap brands for the smaller caps for the budget board lines
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

Newer ASUS are better it has to be said. I'll occasionally put some out to test quality. The overall finish of Gigabyte & the stuff in the box just feels better to me. I build it, it works. No funny drivers. That and Gigabyte's warranty service in the UK is easily accessible.
Want to RMA an ASUS board? Jump through hoops, pay a fee to have it handled. I've given up on my last board coming back.

I have had two Gigabyte 945GZM fail in the last couple of months with duff TK caps. Both in use 24/7. They're taking mosfets, sometimes RAM. At least the ASUS KZG are failing non-destructively.
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

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Newer ASUS are better it has to be said.
The reviews I've seen don't support the idea there has been improvement overall.
I think you just got lucky a couple of times.
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:37 PM   #32
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

Maybe, they've been some variant of G31M MATX which have had solid caps.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:44 AM   #33
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

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[...] but i've even seen gigabytes with cheap brands for the smaller caps for the budget board lines
the only caps one could consider "cheap" on lower end gigabyte boards were mostly 16V 100F LTec's for the fan headers, filtering for the onboard LAN and Sound and stuff like that..

the only gigabyte board i've had which had really crappy caps was a 73PVM-S2H (GeForce 7100 / nForce 630i). instead of LTecs for the tiny caps, it had Evercon (a.k.a. Sacon/GSC)
then again... nvidia chipset.. so it's going to fail far too soon anyways.. coincidence..?

edit: in fact.. this board failed about 4months after the 2 year warranty expired.. no wonder with only a passive aluminium heatsink (colored to look like copper) on the northbridge. runs at 60-65C in idle .. interesting thing is that this board has a place for a northbridge fan header (right next to the clear cmos jumper, which is pretty darn far away) but there's no connector. if it had a fan, it might be still working fine.. kinda sad :/
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Last edited by Scenic; 03-15-2011 at 10:48 AM..
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:13 AM   #34
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

the shop i've been working at for almost 2 years have done a number of board replacements and the only ones we've had come back are asrock (asus cheap brand)

we've used msi, biostar, asus and so far have had NONE come back *knock on wood*
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Old 03-19-2011, 04:18 AM   #35
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

my asus board is all polymer so win for me I guess.
there is a issue with this board from new though and that is you have to adjust the north bridge voltage and ram voltage higher else it won't install win7 or run correctly after tweaking it is good.
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Old 03-19-2011, 01:18 PM   #36
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Default Re: 2007 Dell XPS 410/9200 with Bad Caps

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my asus board is all polymer so win for me I guess.
there is a issue with this board from new though and that is you have to adjust the north bridge voltage and ram voltage higher else it won't install win7 or run correctly after tweaking it is good.
There are a lot of Asus polymer boards that have problems.
I suspect it is because Asus design engineers incorrectly implement polymers.
Excessively low ESR can lead to the same kinds of instabilities as too high of ESR and Asus seems to do that.
That is especially true in their first generation of all polymer boards.
Those things started showing up on Experts Exchange with unexplainable problems about as soon as they were released.
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