Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

[LDSisHere]

History:
This power supply is the last Antec I ever bought. I had mistakenly bought several different ones over the years but soon found out they died quickly. This was long before I knew anything about this forum, so I assumed it had was due to the fans not running fast enough so I "fixed" it by connecting the fan directly to the 12V. It must have worked somewhat because it has ran for many years now. A couple of years ago I pulled it from my PC and put it in my Dad's computer that I built for him and it was probably run harder and longer than it was previously when I had it. I just recently pulled it to do a preemptive recap, and it was then I went "oh crap, Fuhjyyu time bomb", as I had forgotten who had made it.

Problem\Question

I was extremely surprised when I opened it to see that the main caps were not the typical Fuhjyyu like all the other Antecs that I have seen. (All the rest of the caps are Fuhjyyu however.) The main caps were actually Panasonic brand caps. Even more surprising was that one of them was slightly domed. So what I was wondering is if this doming was due to mechanical stress or is it a sign of inanimate failure? The one with the sticker tests at .06 ohms on my ESR tester where the domed one tests .06-.07 and the tests are with them removed from the supply. Should I just replace them with something like Chemicon KMQ's or are they still good? The rest of the supply will be getting all new caps but I was not sure about these due to the way they looked.

Any constructive input would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Lloyd

[retiredcaps]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

The Panasonic caps are rated at 85C. They won't last long versus 105C. PCBONEZ does the math at

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...30&postcount=7

PS. C45 also looks domed in your picture.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

Also see what the capacitance of that both big caps are with your Fluke 77 IV.

[tom66]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

85°C in a primary is usually fine... but if the PSU runs hot or at high power for too long, it can stress them.

All caps eventually wear out and fail, including the good brands.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

Wait! If the capacitance and esr is ok don't remove them!

[tom66]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

If they are bulging, they are bad. That is pretty much universally accepted.

[LDSisHere]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

The Panasonic caps are rated at 85C. They won't last long versus 105C. PCBONEZ does the math at

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...30&postcount=7

PS. C45 also looks domed in your picture.

C45 is bulging but I am already planning on replacing all the electrolytic capacitors in the supply, I was just not sure about the two HV ones, as a rule everyone says not to bother with them.

I will check the capacitance of the the two Panasonic caps when I get home tonight.

If they are bulging, they are bad. That is pretty much universally accepted.

Tom66,

You once helped me with a Panasonic TV that had "domed" HV Chemicons that I thought was bad. You told me that that was normal mechanical stress for those caps.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22136

So I am trying to determine the difference in domed and bulging which is why I made this thread. I want to replace them if they are bad but if they are good then it would be a waste. Do you consider the domed one in the above pictures to be at the bulging stage?

[tom66]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

You can see the vent is broken -- and the bulging is much more severe. On the Chemicons, which I have seen before in a Panasonic, the vent has not ruptured, and it is simply due to how the capacitor is manufactured.

[LDSisHere]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

Also see what the capacitance of that both big caps are with your Fluke 77 IV.

The one with the sticker was 1078uF and the bulging one was 1087uF. This was opposite of my expectations considering their appearance.

You can see the vent is broken -- and the bulging is much more severe. On the Chemicons, which I have seen before in a Panasonic, the vent has not ruptured, and it is simply due to how the capacitor is manufactured.

Thanks for clarifying the difference for me, that is some very useful information that will help me make more educated decisions in the future. Based upon this information and the capacitance testing, I do intend to replace them.

Would you recommend replacing them with the same type or going to 105 deg caps that have a lower ripple rating? At Digi Key the they have this exact series Panasonic UQ 85 deg, 3.5A, 166 mOhm or Panasonic HC 105 deg, 2.65A, 166 mOhm. I am leaning to the HC but I would like some experienced input.


Thanks for all the input guys I very much appreciate the assistance in helping me make a decision. I will see if I can find something entertaining to do with the old ones, rather than just toss them in the trash.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

I was just not sure about the two HV ones, as a rule everyone says not to bother with them.

In a lot of my "standard" answers and guides, I carefully word

"The one exception might be the largest capacitor on the power board which rarely, but not never, fails."

About once every 2 months, we have someone reporting a big filter capacitor problem.

As tom66 suggested, even the best caps in the world will fail given enough heat. They just take longer to fail than the crappy ones.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

Wait! If the capacitance and esr is ok don't remove them!

This is sadly not true.
I have seen several (I wont say many but several) caps that are bloated but still test ok for both capacitance & ESR!
Digge might have a picture if he sees this thread of a real bad case of this.

The thing is that ESR & capacitance meters put an almost insignificant load on the capacitor during the test.
It is a very different thing to put the capacitor in a circuit and load it up to 90% of it's rated ripple & voltage specs...

[digge]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

Since Per asked nicely i had to dig around to find them. Never posted them before cause of semi crappy quality.

As you can see in the pic the original cap have failed and popped on the bottom. Even though its a Rubycon and all, doubt anything would survive being bolted to a 5W resistor for very long. Great design there by Dell

As mentioned that capacitor tested ok in cricuit. I thought this must be totally wrong. Desoldered it and still measured ok both for ESR and capacitance.

If it wouldnt have leaked so badly i probably would have never suspected it beeing bad since its an ok brand.

[LDSisHere]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

The thing is that ESR & capacitance meters put an almost insignificant load on the capacitor during the test.
It is a very different thing to put the capacitor in a circuit and load it up to 90% of it's rated ripple & voltage specs...

This information is very helpful and I appreciate you guys taking the time to post it and the pictures. What it really seems to boil down to is that when in doubt, replace.


I am expecting the replacements to arrive tomorrow. This is what I ordered:

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea...=0&y=0&cur=USD

Series TS-HC
Capacitance 1200uF
Voltage Rating 200V
Tolerance ±20%
Lifetime @ Temp. 2000 Hrs @ 105°C
Operating Temperature -40°C ~ 105°C
Features General Purpose
Ripple Current 2.65A
ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) 166 mOhm

[tom66]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

WTF is a 5W resistor doing on a motherboard??!

[momaka]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

I just recently pulled it to do a preemptive recap, and it was then I went "oh crap, Fuhjyyu time bomb", as I had forgotten who had made it.

In my experience, Fuhjyyu caps that were in PSUs with lots of ventilation and airflow have always appeared to be good and not bulged. Given ample cooling, I don't think they are too bad.

WTF is a 5W resistor doing on a motherboard??!

Lol, I was wondering the same thing.
Leave it to Foxconn/Intel to design a board full of linear regs. instead of proper buck converters.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

Yea, leave it to Foxconn/Intel to design such a board, and then Dell to put it into a case so cramped you can barely take it apart!
Here is a pic of the full board Digge posted photos of above...

[digge]

Re: Antec Truepower 2.0 550 HV caps question

Yea, leave it to Foxconn/Intel to design such a board, and then Dell to put it into a case so cramped you can barely take it apart!
Here is a pic of the full board Digge posted photos of above...

To top it all of, the side where the cap is is standing up so any heat radiated will hit that cap, not only whats from that 5W resistor And the case is just about as small as you can fit that motherboard in so not much room.